I know I'm gunna catch grief about regs but I want to know some information about BDU blouses with Velcro pockets and shoulder pockets. I'm getting these strictly for ground team but can't get any info on where to get them. Here are some specs for them: BDU colors, Velcro pockets two breast pockets two shoulder pockets, Velcro for name tapes Civil Air Patrol tape flag and wing patch, gotten field jacket style rank tab on front. I know you can modify them to be like this but I'm trying to find professionally made ones.
Shoulder pockets? Like on the Sleeves?
Not authorized, nor would a shirt with a rank tab on the front.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 04:40:34 AM
Shoulder pockets? Like on the Sleeves?
Not authorized.
I know. As I said I'm getting them strictly for ground team purposes. These are only really useful for ground team anyways.
..and strictly still not authorized. Even just for ground team purposes.
What do you need the stuff to come off for?
Quote from: a2capt on February 21, 2013, 04:46:35 AM
..and strictly still not authorized. Even just for ground team purposes.
What do you need the stuff to come off for?
It's an excellent place to keep maps, compasses, and other documents. And also during ground team missions the uniform book is thrown out the window I see Staff wearing these same blouses I'm talking about and desert combat boots, and at hawk mountain ranger school they let you wear full hiking boots as a basic.
While they may be useful, they are still not authorized. One thing you need to pay attention to is the fact that as a ground team member, you are the most likely person to be seen by the public. Wearing a uniform that is not authorized shows poorly on us as a team. We are not Seal Team Ranger Ninja Secret squirrel Space Shuttle door gunners and as such we don't need pockets on our sleeves or anything that makes us look like the above. We don't need velcro patches because we aren't going into a combat zone. In all honesty, the woodland BDU should not be worn by ground teams because we are not trying to hide from our targets. The reg is written for a reason and if you don't understand the reason, PM me and I will explain it to you in more detail.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 04:49:49 AM
Quote from: a2capt on February 21, 2013, 04:46:35 AM
..and strictly still not authorized. Even just for ground team purposes.
What do you need the stuff to come off for?
It's an excellent place to keep maps, compasses, and other documents.
That's what you have load carrying equipment for is to carry your maps, compasses, and other documents.
Quote
And also during ground team missions the uniform book is thrown out the window
Please tell me where on ground team missions, the uniform book is thrown out the window. I have sent people home from a mission because they weren't in the proper uniform. Sounds like a leadership issue to me.
Quote
I see Staff wearing these same blouses I'm talking about and desert combat boots, and at hawk mountain ranger school they let you wear full hiking boots as a basic.
The reason they allow you to wear full hiking boots at HMRS is because they don't want you to ruin your shiny uniform boots and also because they feel that hiking boots are more comfortable and provide better support then regular military boots.
I've been working on ground teams for over 20 years. I have seen everything that you could possibly image for uniforms (or clothing rather), field gear, boots, etc. Even had a cadet show up to a ground team mission with a huge boom box strapped to the top of his ruck. As a cadet NCO, it is your responsibility to point out to those who are violating the regs that it is strictly verboten. I am sure that you will take more flak from them then you will from the members of this board.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 04:49:49 AMIt's an excellent place to keep maps, compasses, and other documents. And also during ground team missions the uniform book is thrown out the window I see Staff wearing these same blouses I'm talking about and desert combat boots, and at hawk mountain ranger school they let you wear full hiking boots as a basic.
No, it's not.
If you showed up wearing anything like what you're describing in my AOR, you'd be sent home.
Plus others doing it doesn't make it right. You are simply becoming part of the problem instead of the solution.
Come to CAWG if you'd like to wear funny looking GT uniforms. >:D
Quote from: vento on February 21, 2013, 05:03:58 AM
Plus others doing it doesn't make it right. You are simply becoming part of the problem instead of the solution.
Come to CAWG if you'd like to wear funny looking GT uniforms. >:D
Funny looking but functional, professional, and properly authorized and approved... >:D
Not to mention that we look like every other search and rescue team member from every other organization down there, or at least that's the way it was when I was there a couple years ago...
Quote from: vento on February 21, 2013, 05:03:58 AM
Plus others doing it doesn't make it right. You are simply becoming part of the problem instead of the solution.
Come to CAWG if you'd like to wear funny looking GT uniforms. >:D
My wing also allows you to wear uniforms that would be out of regs to a ground team activity as long as you wear something proper (I.e wearing desert boots to protect your feet, or blouses with sleeve pockets) but nothing crazy like CAWG.
Why has this become an issue of uniform regulations and not what the topic was started for?
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:26:48 AMWhy has this become an issue of uniform regulations and not what the topic was started for?
Maybe because the initial question is not supported by any regulation?
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:24:11 AM
Quote from: vento on February 21, 2013, 05:03:58 AM
Plus others doing it doesn't make it right. You are simply becoming part of the problem instead of the solution.
Come to CAWG if you'd like to wear funny looking GT uniforms. >:D
My wing also allows you to wear uniforms that would be out of regs to a ground team activity as long as you wear something proper (I.e wearing desert boots to protect your feet, or blouses with sleeve pockets) but nothing crazy like CAWG.
The point is that the CAWG GT uniform, however funny it may be to some, is an authorized uniform. What you are trying to get is NOT authorized.
Quote from: vento on February 21, 2013, 05:33:22 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:24:11 AM
Quote from: vento on February 21, 2013, 05:03:58 AM
Plus others doing it doesn't make it right. You are simply becoming part of the problem instead of the solution.
Come to CAWG if you'd like to wear funny looking GT uniforms. >:D
My wing also allows you to wear uniforms that would be out of regs to a ground team activity as long as you wear something proper (I.e wearing desert boots to protect your feet, or blouses with sleeve pockets) but nothing crazy like CAWG.
I know, just poking fun. I actually think the orange blouses are good ideas.
The point is that the CAWG GT uniform, however funny it may be to some, is an authorized uniform. What you are trying to get is NOT authorized.
Wow that was weird! I was sying just poking fun and that I think the orange blouses are a good idea
Quote from: a2capt on February 21, 2013, 05:32:28 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:26:48 AMWhy has this become an issue of uniform regulations and not what the topic was started for?
Maybe because the initial question is not supported by any regulation?
I wasn't ever meaning to get 20 rants on the 39-1, I just wanted info.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:26:48 AM
Why has this become an issue of uniform regulations and not what the topic was started for?
What was the topic started for?
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:39:06 AM
I wasn't ever meaning to get 20 rants on the 39-1, I just wanted info.
The info you "wanted", was "Where can I get the stuff to make my own homemade tactikewl field uniform?"
The info you
needed, was "Don't waste your money, it's not authorized."
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 05:39:06 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:26:48 AM
Why has this become an issue of uniform regulations and not what the topic was started for?
What was the topic started for?
Get info on blouses where I can get blouses with sleeve pockets.
Why don't you ask all the other people in your area who are wearing it where they got it?
Or better still send a note to your commander about creating a homemade uniform and see what he says.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 05:39:06 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:26:48 AM
Why has this become an issue of uniform regulations and not what the topic was started for?
What was the topic started for?
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:39:06 AM
I wasn't ever meaning to get 20 rants on the 39-1, I just wanted info.
The info you "wanted", was "Where can I get the stuff to make my own homemade tactikewl field uniform?"
The info you needed, was "Don't waste your money, it's not authorized."
Wow, did really need that? If you've seen the thread that's all I've gotten.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 05:42:24 AM
Why don't you ask all the other people in your area who are wearing it where they got it?
Or better still send a note to your commander about creating a homemade uniform and see what he says.
Our XO wore one to the meeting on Tuesday. Just saying that no one outside of captalk goes crazy about those blouses (but he gave an excuse).
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 05:42:24 AM
Why don't you ask all the other people in your area who are wearing it where they got it?
Or better still send a note to your commander about creating a homemade uniform and see what he says.
Two officers in our unit have them. He is fine with them as long as they are worn to ES functions. And the store that used to sell them stopped selling them.
Cadet Officers or Senior Members? Neither has the authority to "be fine with them".
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 05:45:03 AMOur XO wore one to the meeting on Tuesday. Just saying that no one outside of captalk goes crazy about those blouses (but he gave an excuse).
You'd be surprised what happens when you move outside a closed circle of members. The light of day on these sorts of things tends to initiate change.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 05:50:19 AM
Cadet Officers or Senior Members? Neither has the authority to "be fine with them".
His uniform was being mended and he couldn't wear his blues because we had staff applicants wearing blues. But also I've seen many senior members (ecspecially at encampment) yell at a cadet because his pocket is unbuttoned and they are wearing an AF uniform weighing 50 pounds over the weight limit. I'm just saying. And I also do know the 39-1 well ( I am my unit's SET officer) but I also realize the importance of having flexibility when it comes to ES gear.
So this is another cadet who dropped a lame excuse why he couldn't war a proper uniform and you think that
justifies you doing it too?
Cadet, you should pick an attack angle and go with it. You started this saying that this was necessary because it's "better",
now you're saying someone wore this because their proper uniform was not wearable.
Seeing others in bad uniforms, especially unrelated variants, does not give you license to make things up yourself.
If anything, seeing other members in improper uniforms should give you more inititive to do things right.
Set the example, don't be the example.
In regards to field uniforms, there is no need for "flexibility" in this case, especially for CAP members, however even if you want to
valiantly argue the necessity for sleeve pockets, it's irrelevant because they are not allowed. Period. If you have enough
people around you really wearing something like this, you should be addressing their inability to follow simple instructions,
not using that as your own justification for the same unacceptable behavior.
Field expediency is what you do in an emergency where life or property is at stake. It is not a justification for just doing whatever
you went because "I know better", or "I saw another guy do it."
A cadet NCO should know better
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 06:06:43 AM
So this is another cadet who dropped a lame excuse why he couldn't war a proper uniform and you think that
justifies you doing it too?
Cadet, you should pick an attack angle and go with it. You started this saying that this was necessary because it's "better",
now you're saying someone wore this because their proper uniform was not wearable.
Seeing others in bad uniforms, especially unrelated variants, does not give you license to make things up yourself.
In regards to field uniforms, there is no need for "flexibility" in this case, especially for CAP members, however even if you want to
valiantly argue the necessity for sleeve pockets, it's irrelevant because they are not allowed.
Field expediency is what you do in an emergency where life or property is at stake. It is not a justification for just doing whatever
you went because "I know better", or "I saw another guy do it."
A cadet NCO should know better
The reason I want these is (like I've said) is so that my missions run quicker because I don't need to spend an extra minute to get my compass and map out of my pack just so I don't have a pocket on a sleeve. In the field seconds count.
NC-800, .. if the trend to use 800's for school enrichment unit charters like in CAWG is a national thing, then that tactikewl observation has a lot more merit ;-)
Welcome to CAPTalk.
Maybe this is explains the "renegade" attitude .. ;)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0WEZ4lhe0Mk/UKq-RlpIjvI/AAAAAAAAAPU/_cvF_EcE5VA/s787/SAM_0258.JPG)
High school Pirates? ;)
Quote from: a2capt on February 21, 2013, 06:10:34 AM
NC-800, .. if the trend to use 800's for school enrichment unit charters like in CAWG is a national thing, then that tactikewl observation has a lot more merit ;-)
Welcome to CAPTalk.
Maybe this is explains the "renegade" attitude .. ;)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0WEZ4lhe0Mk/UKq-RlpIjvI/AAAAAAAAAPU/_cvF_EcE5VA/s787/SAM_0258.JPG)
High school Pirates? ;)
I don't go to that school. And where did you get that picture. Also we were given that by the school board for our dedicated room.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:10:04 AM
The reason I want these is (like I've said) is so that my missions run quicker because I don't need to spend an extra minute to get my compass and map out of my pack just so I don't have a pocket on a sleeve. In the field seconds count.
I'm sure we would all be very interested in the details of the real-world missions you've participated in where this was relevant.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 06:14:26 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:10:04 AM
The reason I want these is (like I've said) is so that my missions run quicker because I don't need to spend an extra minute to get my compass and map out of my pack just so I don't have a pocket on a sleeve. In the field seconds count.
I'm sure we would all be very interested in the details of the real-world missions you've participated in where this was relevant.
Group 1 ES training school, we took at least 2 extra minutes to get out a compass and map.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:15:55 AM
Group 1 ES training school, we took at least 2 extra minutes to get out a compass and map.
I asked for real world, not training.
Regardless, if it takes you 2 minutes to find your compass and a map, you need to rearrange your gear.
Land nav is not a quick-draw competition.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:10:04 AM
The reason I want these is (like I've said) is so that my missions run quicker because I don't need to spend an extra minute to get my compass and map out of my pack just so I don't have a pocket on a sleeve. In the field seconds count.
It is irrelevant. If you show up in an unauthorized uniform, any CAP IC with integrity will simply send you home.
An uniform is NOT an ES gear. It is our identity. Do not confuse it with the backpack or the flashlight.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 06:19:16 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:15:55 AM
Group 1 ES training school, we took at least 2 extra minutes to get out a compass and map.
I asked for real world, not training.
Regardless, if it takes you 2 minutes to find your compass and a map, you need to rearrange your gear.
I'm sorry that I live in a town where no one goes in the woods and no one is a Pilot.
Quote from: vento on February 21, 2013, 06:21:00 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:10:04 AM
The reason I want these is (like I've said) is so that my missions run quicker because I don't need to spend an extra minute to get my compass and map out of my pack just so I don't have a pocket on a sleeve. In the field seconds count.
It is irrelevant. If you show up in an unauthorized uniform, any CAP IC with integrity will simply send you home.
An uniform is NOT an ES gear. It is our identity. Do not confuse it with the backpack or the flashlight.
Why is it listed as gear in the ground team bible?
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:21:44 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 06:19:16 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:15:55 AM
Group 1 ES training school, we took at least 2 extra minutes to get out a compass and map.
I asked for real world, not training.
Regardless, if it takes you 2 minutes to find your compass and a map, you need to rearrange your gear.
I'm sorry that I live in a town where no one goes in the woods and no one is a Pilot.
I wasn't the compass man either. It was a senior member.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:22:35 AM
Quote from: vento on February 21, 2013, 06:21:00 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:10:04 AM
The reason I want these is (like I've said) is so that my missions run quicker because I don't need to spend an extra minute to get my compass and map out of my pack just so I don't have a pocket on a sleeve. In the field seconds count.
It is irrelevant. If you show up in an unauthorized uniform, any CAP IC with integrity will simply send you home.
An uniform is NOT an ES gear. It is our identity. Do not confuse it with the backpack or the flashlight.
Why is it listed as gear in the ground team bible?
Ok, if you insist on citing regulations. Uniforms are to be worn in accordance to CAPM 39-1. Generic gear does not have a CAPM or CAPR attached to it, at least there is none for my backpack or flashlight. You tell me where in the reg does it say that you can wear an unauthorized uniform item? Members of this board had been trying to tell you that and you simply won't listen. ???
So based on one senior member who took 2 minutes to get his compass out, you feel justified in creating
your own homemade uniform?
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 06:31:11 AM
So based on one senior member who took 2 minutes to get his compass out, you feel justified in creating
your own homemade uniform?
I feel justified not letting that happen to me.
This is very simple - I don't see why it eludes you. You have two choices:
1. Accept the fact that what you want to do is not authorized - no matter who has done it or says that it's OK - and find another way to get the job done (maybe get a SAR vest to keep crucial items handy?)
(Edit) Incidentally, my 24 hour pack includes a web belt with ammo pouches that hold my compass, flashlight, whistle, signal mirror, and other "I might need this quick" items. The problem is not insurmountable.
2. Write up the proposed changes to CAPM 39-1 that would make your preferred uniform authorized and send it up through your chain of command to NHQ so that the uniform committee can consider it.
If your commander is permitting you or others to wear uniforms in a manner inconsistent with regulations, then that is a leadership problem that higher HQ should be looking into. Don't contribute to the problem by trying to rationalize violations of regulations in the name of convenience.
</soapbox>
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 21, 2013, 06:35:11 AM
This is very simple - I don't see why it eludes you. You have two choices:
1. Accept the fact that what you want to do is not authorized - no matter who has done it or says that it's OK - and find another way to get the job done (maybe get a SAR vest to keep crucial items handy?)
2. Write up the proposed changes to CAPM 39-1 that would make your preferred uniform authorized and send it up through your chain of command to NHQ so that the uniform committee can consider it.
If your commander is permitting you or others to wear uniforms in a manner inconsistent with regulations, then that is a leadership problem that higher HQ should be looking into. Don't contribute to the problem by trying to rationalize violations of regulations in the name of convenience.
</soapbox>
Well this wasn't approved by my squadron commander, it was approved by the wing ES officer. You know the head honcho of ES ops at wing.
So you took 2 minutes to take out a map/compass. Annoying perhaps, but unlikely to be a game changer unless you are doing it 15-30 times. Though I also have to ask where the heck they had it buried? They must have been from the infomercial universe.
I just tested myself. I got up from my computer, walked across the room, picked my pack up out of my closet, put it on, took it off, laid it down, got out my map, dug around and tried to remember where I put the compass (I'm reconfiguring my pack and I'm tired) took it out, and put stuff away and came back to my computer. All at a leisurely stroll. It took me 1.5 minutes to do that. (I used a stopwatch)
Also a note 'They do it at Hawk' does not win you points on this board. IF your Wing/CC is in fact authorizing this stuff (I highly doubt it) I have no doubt a Region/CC would be very interested to see that and that the conversation would not go swimingly for that wing/CC. You probably didn't see the ruckus that a picture from an encampment garnered when it had a bunch of uniform violations and unathorized crap.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:37:29 AM
Well this wasn't approved by my squadron commander, it was approved by the wing ES officer. You know the head honcho of ES ops at wing.
Sounds like he needs a talking to by your Wing Commander - or that your Region needs to get involved. No one at Wing HQ can authorize that which regulations prohibit. As a Wing level director, I can assure you of that. (And boy, what I would change if I could!)
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 21, 2013, 06:39:39 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:37:29 AM
Well this wasn't approved by my squadron commander, it was approved by the wing ES officer. You know the head honcho of ES ops at wing.
Sounds like he needs a talking to by your Wing Commander - or that your Region needs to get involved. No one at Wing HQ can authorize that which regulations prohibit. As a Wing level director, I can assure you of that. (And boy, what I would change if I could!)
I'm pretty sure region commander knows of this because the other wings are worse about it.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:37:29 AM
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 21, 2013, 06:35:11 AM
This is very simple - I don't see why it eludes you. You have two choices:
1. Accept the fact that what you want to do is not authorized - no matter who has done it or says that it's OK - and find another way to get the job done (maybe get a SAR vest to keep crucial items handy?)
2. Write up the proposed changes to CAPM 39-1 that would make your preferred uniform authorized and send it up through your chain of command to NHQ so that the uniform committee can consider it.
If your commander is permitting you or others to wear uniforms in a manner inconsistent with regulations, then that is a leadership problem that higher HQ should be looking into. Don't contribute to the problem by trying to rationalize violations of regulations in the name of convenience.
</soapbox>
Well this wasn't approved by my squadron commander, it was approved by the wing ES officer. You know the head honcho of ES ops at wing.
My final advise and final entry into this thread: Stop digging a hole for yourself that you can't get out of it.
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on February 21, 2013, 06:38:51 AM
So you took 2 minutes to take out a map/compass. Annoying perhaps, but unlikely to be a game changer unless you are doing it 15-30 times. Though I also have to ask where the heck they had it buried? They must have been from the infomercial universe.
I just tested myself. I got up from my computer, walked across the room, picked my pack up out of my closet, put it on, took it off, laid it down, got out my map, dug around and tried to remember where I put the compass (I'm reconfiguring my pack and I'm tired) took it out, and put stuff away and came back to my computer. All at a leisurely stroll. It took me 1.5 minutes to do that. (I used a stopwatch)
Also a note 'They do it at Hawk' does not win you points on this board. IF your Wing/CC is in fact authorizing this stuff (I highly doubt it) I have no doubt a Region/CC would be very interested to see that and that the conversation would not go swimingly for that wing/CC. You probably didn't see the ruckus that a picture from an encampment garnered when it had a bunch of uniform violations and unathorized crap.
I have seen that pic, it was terrible. But 1.5 is still time you could be using treating wounds of victims if it took you .05
Quote from: vento on February 21, 2013, 06:42:15 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:37:29 AM
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 21, 2013, 06:35:11 AM
This is very simple - I don't see why it eludes you. You have two choices:
1. Accept the fact that what you want to do is not authorized - no matter who has done it or says that it's OK - and find another way to get the job done (maybe get a SAR vest to keep crucial items handy?)
2. Write up the proposed changes to CAPM 39-1 that would make your preferred uniform authorized and send it up through your chain of command to NHQ so that the uniform committee can consider it.
If your commander is permitting you or others to wear uniforms in a manner inconsistent with regulations, then that is a leadership problem that higher HQ should be looking into. Don't contribute to the problem by trying to rationalize violations of regulations in the name of convenience.
</soapbox>
Well this wasn't approved by my squadron commander, it was approved by the wing ES officer. You know the head honcho of ES ops at wing.
My final advise and final entry into this thread: Stop digging a hole for yourself that you can't get out of it.
Ill end at this too. I don't see how I've built a hole if I haven't broken any regulations because I was asking where too get these blouses, not telling the world I had them.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:41:38 AM
I'm pretty sure region commander knows of this because the other wings are worse about it.
I sincerely doubt it. But hey, you've got to do what you think is right.
(That's my polite way of saying that I've given up discussing it because you apparently will soon explain that the Region Commander got the OK from the National Commander, and what would we have left to talk about?)
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:37:29 AM
Well this wasn't approved by my squadron commander, it was approved by the wing ES officer. You know the head honcho of ES ops at wing.
A wing ES officer does not have the authority to change the uniform. That can only be done, within a pretty narrow lane, via a NHQ approved supplement.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:41:38 AMI'm pretty sure region commander knows of this because the other wings are worse about it.
Cadet. This is the point where you should just stop, accept you made a bad choice, and move on.
The Region CC doesn't "know about it", and no tactical excuse changes the simple fact that it isn't allowed. You can continue to argue in a circle if you want, but you're
just making yourself look immature.
Based on past experience in similar situations, odds are someone has already emailed your unit cc and this will be discussed at your next unit meeting.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2013, 06:45:58 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:41:38 AMI'm pretty sure region commander knows of this because the other wings are worse about it.
Cadet. This is the point where you should just stop, accept you made a bad choice, and move on.
The Region CC doesn't "know about it", and no tactical excuse changes the simple fact that it isn't allowed. You can continue to argue in a circle if you want, but you're
just making yourself look immature.
Based on past experience in similar situations, odds are someone has already emailed your unit cc and this will be discussed at your next unit meeting.
Did I not just say I was done sir? Theonly reason I reply is to get rid of the email alert.
Well he might be right that soon a Region/CC, Wing/CC, etc may 'know about it' >:D The results might just not be fully expected. :angel:
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on February 21, 2013, 06:48:05 AM
Well he might be right that soon a Region/CC, Wing/CC, etc may 'know about it' >:D The results might just not be fully expected. :angel:
Go ahead, fine with me. Talk to Lt. Col. Wiggs (wing ES), Col. Crawford (wing commander) or Col. Ragland (region commander). Not to mention that Lt col Wiggs is there 95% of the time.
Where's the popcorn? Also 800, in what capacity have you treated victims on an ES mission?
So to answer your original question (whether unauthorized or not), I assume this is what you are talking about:
http://bdu.com/mens-tru-spec-nylon-cotton-ripstop-tru-coats/woodland (http://bdu.com/mens-tru-spec-nylon-cotton-ripstop-tru-coats/woodland)
In reference to your attitude though, I think that you have a little bit of maturing to do. Take this advice from a 20+ year ground team member/leader. Tie your compass around your neck and put your map in the cargo pocket of your BDU pants. No more 2 minutes trying to find your stuff. In the grand scheme of things, more often then not you will find that most people who are involved in a plane crash in a small aircraft will be dead by the time you arrive. With the prevalence of cell phones now, those who do survive will have called for help and thus local law enforcement and other rescuers will be on-site before you are even activated. While time is critical, we will always find ourselves behind the eight ball.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:51:47 AM
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on February 21, 2013, 06:48:05 AM
Well he might be right that soon a Region/CC, Wing/CC, etc may 'know about it' >:D The results might just not be fully expected. :angel:
Go ahead, fine with me. Talk to Lt. Col. Wiggs (wing ES), Col. Crawford (wing commander) or Col. Ragland (region commander). Not to mention that Lt col Wiggs is there 95% of the time.
It is interesting to note that Lt. Col. Wiggs is not the ES officer of NC wing. That would be Maj. Chris Bailey. I am sure that Col. Crawford and Col. Ragland would be interested to hear about this whole situation. Of course, knowing the people on this board as I do I am pretty certain that their phones have already rung at least once...
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:51:47 AM
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on February 21, 2013, 06:48:05 AM
Well he might be right that soon a Region/CC, Wing/CC, etc may 'know about it' >:D The results might just not be fully expected. :angel:
Go ahead, fine with me. Talk to Lt. Col. Wiggs (wing ES), Col. Crawford (wing commander) or Col. Ragland (region commander). Not to mention that Lt col Wiggs is there 95% of the time.
Dude.......Thanks for giving us all the names of your wing/region leaders who supposedly can't read regulations.
We appreciate it.
Now.....guess what....this is what is going to happen. This thread will be delivered to the named officers with a note that says something like "WTF guys......are you really telling people that this is okay?"
Then the fecal matter will start to fly.
It seems that you are new to CAPTALK and maybe fairly new to CAP as well........The answer you were really looking for was given in the first reply. It is not authorised. No one below NHQ level has the authority to modify 39-1 to allow you to wear them.
So......go ahead and do what you want.....as USAFAUX said.....where's the popcorn? I want to watch.
For my GT gear I have a compass pouch like this
http://www.militaryclothing.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/0C0V/product-id/195031.html (http://www.militaryclothing.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/0C0V/product-id/195031.html)
that fits nicely on a web belt or as in my case a molle backpack. Most compasses also fit nicely in a BDU trouser pockets, all 3 options are nicely within a hands reach without having to go digging through my gear.
As for the map, I currently have a map case like this
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=7184&tabid=1&catid=3432 (http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=7184&tabid=1&catid=3432)
that nicely rolls up and fits in a outside pocket of my backpack, also I have found that a large ziplock does well and will fit in the BDU pocket.
It's all about getting your gear squared away properly and putting everything in a place where it is easily accessible and in a consistent location.
Quote from: CAPDan on February 21, 2013, 08:35:06 AM
For my GT gear I have a compass pouch like this
http://www.militaryclothing.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/0C0V/product-id/195031.html (http://www.militaryclothing.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/0C0V/product-id/195031.html)
that fits nicely on a web belt or as in my case a molle backpack. Most compasses also fit nicely in a BDU trouser pockets, all 3 options are nicely within a hands reach without having to go digging through my gear.
As for the map, I currently have a map case like this
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=7184&tabid=1&catid=3432 (http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=7184&tabid=1&catid=3432)
that nicely rolls up and fits in a outside pocket of my backpack, also I have found that a large ziplock does well and will fit in the BDU pocket.
It's all about getting your gear squared away properly and putting everything in a place where it is easily accessible and in a consistent location.
Thank you! My problem with the maps and compasses with my gear is I can never fit a map in my tactical vest and have to put it in an Alice clipped bag in the back. That wastes quite a while.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8Wzeg8OadB4/S9SqCQpa1oI/AAAAAAAAAXU/WuBBC-nMxcE/s1600/bdu-after-mods.jpg)
I made a set of these several years ago as a "prototype" for use in the field, not specifically for the Air Force or in CAP, but it was fun making them.
"You gotta know the rules before you break them." -Col Charlie "Chargin" Beckwith
All-
I certainly would like to read the results when the named Wing personnel get involved... Although I do seem to have predicted the results in my mind...
:-\
Flyer
Quote from: lordmonar on February 21, 2013, 07:59:40 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:51:47 AM
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on February 21, 2013, 06:48:05 AM
Well he might be right that soon a Region/CC, Wing/CC, etc may 'know about it' >:D The results might just not be fully expected. :angel:
Go ahead, fine with me. Talk to Lt. Col. Wiggs (wing ES), Col. Crawford (wing commander) or Col. Ragland (region commander). Not to mention that Lt col Wiggs is there 95% of the time.
Dude.......Thanks for giving us all the names of your wing/region leaders who supposedly can't read regulations.
We appreciate it.
Now.....guess what....this is what is going to happen. This thread will be delivered to the named officers with a note that says something like "WTF guys......are you really telling people that this is okay?"
Then the fecal matter will start to fly.
It seems that you are new to CAPTALK and maybe fairly new to CAP as well........The answer you were really looking for was given in the first reply. It is not authorised. No one below NHQ level has the authority to modify 39-1 to allow you to wear them.
So......go ahead and do what you want.....as USAFAUX said.....where's the popcorn? I want to watch.
Granted, I haven't read through the whole thread (I'm sneaking around CAP Talk at work), but I'd say give the
kid cadet a break. The difference between me and this cadet (when I was a cadet - WIWAC) is that he's got the internet to get himself in trouble and draw attention. BITD, I would have just done this. Sure, I may have gotten my hand smacked for it, but it would have probably been worth it.
Fact is, cadet, know that you CANNOT wear these "specialized" BDUs in CAP at any activity. Other than that, enjoy yourself.
It wasn't so much the issue of asking but when he was told that it wasn't authorized and not to waste his money on it, he basically tried to tell the members of the board that he had seen others do it and so it should be okay. Unfortunately in this forum, that attitude tends to attract the wolves and they came. It should have been simple but he made it worse by calling out his entire chain of command. I got my life lesson on this forum and he gets his today. Thus, the circle of life is complete and everything is good. I don't know that I have seen this cadet's name but I would hope that the only thing to come out of this is a clarification email from the wing commander saying "Thou shalt not..." This is not a case of pinata time for a cadet who simply wants to be high speed. And, in all honesty, I am sure that when I was a cadet I would have done the same thing but my attitude would have been a little bit different. Lick your wounds and drive on there high speed.
Wow. 61 replies in less than 10 hours--is that a record?
And, by the way, I usually hold my map in my hand when I am navigating. YMMV.
4 Pages? That escalated quickly.
Those are called "raid modifications" I believe
Quote from: J2H on February 21, 2013, 03:43:08 PM
Those are called "raid modifications" I believe
No, its called "I don't like the 'uni' part of 'uniform' and I want to look different."
At least in this context.
Maybe out in the Hindu Kush in 2001, different matter. You're riding around on horses with beards and pakol hats in BDUs.
AFAIK, CAP has no "tier-one" assets.
Quote from: NIN on February 21, 2013, 04:12:30 PM
AFAIK, CAP has no "tier-one" assets.
I thought you and Stonewall were "Tier One Assets" NIN...... >:D
Quote from: GoneAway on February 21, 2013, 04:33:20 PM
I thought you and Stonewall were "Tier One Assets" NIN...... >:D
The gents in the black van with the flashy-flashy thing want to have a talk with you.
Look here. It says "Retired". That should be enough sheep-dipping for CAP.
↓
↓
Quote from: NIN on February 21, 2013, 03:35:13 PM
4 Pages? That escalated quickly.
It's because apparently the 5% of senior members in cap who adhear to the 39-1 all have the "too much free time" award. :)
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 08:30:58 PM
Quote from: NIN on February 21, 2013, 03:35:13 PM
4 Pages? That escalated quickly.
It's because apparently the 5% of senior members in cap who adhear to the 39-1 all have the "too much free time" award. :)
Cadet, with an attitude like that, you have an "exciting" life ahead of you.
You asked a loaded question and showed a disregard for the regulations your cadet oath binds you to. We offered clear, appropriate advice.
Instead of accepting that, heeded or not, you chose the "you can't make me" track and then went on to assert things you know are untrue,
in the name of superior officers in your Wing and Region (along the way asserting authority for a few people who don't actually have it, not to mention being confused over who is assigned to what staff positions in your wing). In this response you impugned fully 95% of the people in CAP, despite the fact that this isn't even true in your small circle, let alone outside of it.
A quick check of photos of members in your unit/group/wing shows some of the best uniform wear you will find publicly posted, and curiously,
not a single photo of anyone wearing this supposedly "common" field uniform.
I would suggest spending less time on airsoft forums and worrying about quick-drawing your compass, and more time reading the regulations
and guidelines to which you have promised to abide.
Snarky comments from other experienced
peers (i.e. adults), are accepted as currency on this board, heck, there are even a handful of cadets who "get it" that can give as good as they get, and are usually appreciated in the spirit they are presented. The same from a poorly informed, misguided cadet is simply disrespectful.
LOL. They need to give you the "Still does not get it" Award.
Here's the part I don't get. All this "whining" about a minute to find a map. Every second counts. Yes, I get that.
If every second counts, plan ahead. Don't bury the bloody map in a pocket.
You've got 8 pockets at your disposal. Four in the front, four down below.
If you can't organize a map and compass among them, that you can't just whip out, and take that bearing. You still need to find the occasional flat spot, clear off the ground, etc.
What about your "team"? There's 4 of you, right? 32 pockets among you. "Hey, you're in charge of the map and compass, I'll do the radio, he does the looking ahead, and we all keep walking".
All of that can be done within the regulation, with the specified equipment. Start reaching for it while you're walking. You can walk and chew gu, er, reach for a pocket at the same time, right?
Next thing I bet we hear is "we're not supposed to put anything in the pockets".
all this "we get to ignore the uniform regs on operational missions" stuff is crap.
There is a big difference between doing something like wearing a non-reg coat instead of potentially suffering a cold weather injury and modifying your CAP uniform in a way that is wholly (and I do me WHOLLY) outside of the bounds of the regs.
Let me see if I can bottom line this: Sleeve pockets and rank tabs on the chest are ENTIRELY about "I want to look like William Joseph Naughtybottom," protestations about the accessibility of your map & compass notwithstanding.
Any commander who allows the latter is paying lip service to the core values.
A2-
If you do not mind my correction, he has 10 pockets. If he wears a BDU, 4 on top and 6 below. Plenty. And I am not betting against you on him now adding "we are not supposed to put things on pockets..."
Flyer
Can no one take a joke? And the Raid modified uniforms are hard to spot, seeing as they are camouflage.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 09:04:10 PM
Can no one take a joke? And the Raid modified uniforms are hard to spot, seeing as they are camouflage.
Yes, when we hear one.
You can't even let this go when you're trying to back peddle. Consider that you felt it was important to make it known
that you understand what "Raid modified" uniforms are.
C/MSgt 800bestofcap,
I know for a fact that at least one of the wing/region staff members named in this thread has a CAP Talk account, and I know of several other high-ranking wing/region members that regularly read and post here. Because of this, I am certain that your squadron commander will be having an uncomfortable conversation with the Wing Commander or Chief of Staff, and that you will find yourself having a similarly uncomfortable conversation with one or more members of your chain of command.
My advice to you is to stand down, publically apologize for your behavior in this thread, and proactively contact your immediate superiors to explain the situation and offer assurances that it will not happen again.
I came onto this thread late. Is it just me or does "800"'s syntax and style sound a lot like "c/Capt[Not] Obvious" from a couple of weeks ago. It's probably just me.
Quote from: ol'fido on February 21, 2013, 09:40:05 PM
I came onto this thread late. Is it just me or does "800"'s syntax and style sound a lot like "c/Capt[Not] Obvious" from a couple of weeks ago. It's probably just me.
It's probably just an age issue. His initial posts included his name and unit, he's not the same cadet.
From the very first post in this thread:Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 04:36:48 AM
I know I'm gunna [sic] catch grief about regs...
Foreshadowing: a literary device
AND the understatement was well-played!
So many thoughts.......
a-from a HMRS specific perspective: compass- every since I was a cadet we were/and always teach put it on a string around your neck.
b-Maps....mine fits really nice in that big pocket on my leg, or inside my shirt..... CAP/SAR/Military since 1989......
c-I too have a similar modified set of BDU's (or technically DCU's) they were specifically for deployable USAF use. The most usuefull modification was I added lower leg pockets as well, and one of them was an accessible trauma shears pocket
mk
Let's see... On deployment I wore those Super-ultra-tacticool FROG cammies with extra shin pockets..... never used those. Then daily I wore the Marine Corps blouse with the shoulder pockets you say are so useful and used them a total of..... Zero times.
Your question (800bestofcap) has little logical value, and I suggest you stop.... talking. ::)
Deployed - I used the sleeve pockets on my combat shirts regularly.
Deployed: I only used my sleeve pocket for my thin notebook. I found that too many or too heavy of items was uncomfortable. The last time I used a compass I used my iphone :)
In my sleeve pockets I kept rubber gloves (used them often), a small camera (part of my SALUTE reporting), and a notebook.
As a "light" infantryman, I learned the value of carrying as little as possible in my pockets. When you travel by LPC(Leather Personnel Carrier), you learn that stuff in your pockets will find some way to rub a sore spot on some part of your anatomy or jab you in the kidney, spleen, bladder, etc. So, even today, I prefer to carry as little as possible in my pockets.
As to carrying a compass on a string around my neck, I wore my dog tags with a very comfortable piece of 550 cord shell over the chain and the three tags(I had one of the red allergy tags) were taped together with 100mph tape. Unless I was on the land nav course and actually navigating, I would have the compass in it's little ALICE pouch(with a couple of extra field dressings). Normally, on day land nav I would seldom use the compass and would navigate by terrain association. That is not always possible in a flat heavily forested area. I did not like puttting a compass or anything else around my neck like that for fear that I would fall on the terrain and the string would hang up and strangle me.
A better idea would be to put a compass pouch on a pack or LBE shoulder strap and dummy cord the compass to the strap.
If quick-draw from the shoulder is really an issue, you could always just put the compass in an arm-band case in the
exact spot the sleeve pocket would be.
Or put velcro on the bottom of the compass and an arm band.
Neither is necessary, but both are better then ruining a uniform you won't be allowed to wear after it's seen the first time.
Done.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 04:36:48 AM
I know I'm gunna catch grief about regs but I want to know some information about BDU blouses with Velcro pockets and shoulder pockets. I'm getting these strictly for ground team but can't get any info on where to get them. Here are some specs for them: BDU colors, Velcro pockets two breast pockets two shoulder pockets, Velcro for name tapes Civil Air Patrol tape flag and wing patch, gotten field jacket style rank tab on front. I know you can modify them to be like this but I'm trying to find professionally made ones.
I've got some I'm willing to sell. $2000.00/blouse, minimum order of 50.
Quote from: SJFedor on February 23, 2013, 03:26:03 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 04:36:48 AM
I know I'm gunna catch grief about regs but I want to know some information about BDU blouses with Velcro pockets and shoulder pockets. I'm getting these strictly for ground team but can't get any info on where to get them. Here are some specs for them: BDU colors, Velcro pockets two breast pockets two shoulder pockets, Velcro for name tapes Civil Air Patrol tape flag and wing patch, gotten field jacket style rank tab on front. I know you can modify them to be like this but I'm trying to find professionally made ones.
I've got some I'm willing to sell. $2000.00/blouse, minimum order of 50.
And that is a pretty good price coming from a Ferengi. >:D
EDIT: Just remembered that I said I wouldn't be posting on this thread anymore. Darn it! Couldn't resist the rule of acquisition.
Just so nobody thinks I'm some guy who doesn't know all about wearing unauthorized uniforms...
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/525806_10151172802074409_983563098_n.jpg)
Those are jungle fatigues. IN THE WINTER.
Yeah. In 1986, slash pockets were cool. So cool that we had to wear them every chance we got. Even in places where it was clearly inappropriate to wear a uniform designed and constructed for a tropical clime.
Quote from: NIN on February 23, 2013, 11:15:13 PM
Just so nobody thinks I'm some guy who doesn't know all about wearing unauthorized uniforms...
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/525806_10151172802074409_983563098_n.jpg)
Those are jungle fatigues. IN THE WINTER.
Yeah. In 1986, slash pockets were cool. So cool that we had to wear them every chance we got. Even in places where it was clearly inappropriate to wear a uniform designed and constructed for a tropical clime.
That was our "official" uniform, complete with subdued patches, for all activities in GAWG in the 70s/80s. Except for SAREXs and other official wing activities, we never went anywhere without our "jungies". Even on our week-long after-Christmas FTX to northeast Abalama. You just wore thermal underwear and your M65 with the fur-lined hood and thick socks.
Quote from: Garibaldi on February 23, 2013, 11:37:40 PM
That was our "official" uniform, complete with subdued patches, for all activities in GAWG in the 70s/80s. Except for SAREXs and other official wing activities, we never went anywhere without our "jungies". Even on our week-long after-Christmas FTX to northeast Abalama. You just wore thermal underwear and your M65 with the fur-lined hood and thick socks.
*whew* .. I thought I was the only one who was weird :)
That being said, NE Alabama? Does it even get cold there? 8)
I liked wearing my OD jungles as well. One of these days I'll break out the ERDL's with CAP stuff on them. Ah, memories.....
Quote from: vento on February 23, 2013, 05:52:17 AM
Quote from: SJFedor on February 23, 2013, 03:26:03 AM
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 04:36:48 AM
I know I'm gunna catch grief about regs but I want to know some information about BDU blouses with Velcro pockets and shoulder pockets. I'm getting these strictly for ground team but can't get any info on where to get them. Here are some specs for them: BDU colors, Velcro pockets two breast pockets two shoulder pockets, Velcro for name tapes Civil Air Patrol tape flag and wing patch, gotten field jacket style rank tab on front. I know you can modify them to be like this but I'm trying to find professionally made ones.
I've got some I'm willing to sell. $2000.00/blouse, minimum order of 50.
And that is a pretty good price coming from a Ferengi. >:D
EDIT: Just remembered that I said I wouldn't be posting on this thread anymore. Darn it! Couldn't resist the rule of acquisition.
#22! "A wise man can hear profit in the wind." ;D
I shake my head when I think about all the unauthorized stuff I used to do and wear when I was a cadet. Anything to look like some cool special forces commando elite! Berets, jump boots, random bling... you name it I did it!
Quote from: JK657 on February 24, 2013, 05:18:40 PM
I shake my head when I think about all the unauthorized stuff I used to do and wear when I was a cadet. Anything to look like some cool special forces commando elite! Berets, jump boots, random bling... you name it I did it!
100%
In my day, no one cared. We'd be "lucky" to have a senior member that cared enough to know 39-1, let alone own one. We made up the rules as we went, because either we could, or we didn't know any better.
Quote from: Stonewall on February 24, 2013, 05:53:37 PMIn my day, no one cared. We'd be "lucky" to have a senior member that cared enough to know 39-1, let alone own one. We made up the rules as we went, because either we could, or we didn't know any better.
..and one could argue that mentality as a whole lead to the general promotion and purple things that others seem to cite as the bolt of lighting that beset the organizations "downfall" and "separation" with the Air Force.. ;)
Quote from: Stonewall on February 24, 2013, 05:53:37 PM
Quote from: JK657 on February 24, 2013, 05:18:40 PM
I shake my head when I think about all the unauthorized stuff I used to do and wear when I was a cadet. Anything to look like some cool special forces commando elite! Berets, jump boots, random bling... you name it I did it!
100%
In my day, no one cared. We'd be "lucky" to have a senior member that cared enough to know 39-1, let alone own one. We made up the rules as we went, because either we could, or we didn't know any better.
WIWAC in NYWG, it was *very* by-the-book. If you showed up at a Sq meeting with uniform discrepancies (and inspection was the first order of business after opening formation), you either corrected it on the spot or got sent home, with an admonition that you would not wear the uniform again until it (and you) were in regs. And God help you if you went to a Group or higher level activity... If you didn't get busted before you got there, you sure as hell did WHEN you got there.. a CAPF 341 was pulled, and it got back to your Sq/CC, and went in your 201 file. Multiple 341s pulled for discrepancies were grounds to hold promotion, prohibit you from participating in activities, etc.. So you always strived to be as squared away as possible. Those who couldn't get with the program, LEFT the program. There was high esprit de corps, and pride in what we accomplished.
When I got to FLWG, I found the exact opposite.. Barely anyone cared/cares about uniforms and C&C, and, quite frankly, it is reflected in complacency in other aspects of the program. When I have tried to do on the spot corrections, I am labeled a uniform/C&C nazi.. Subordinates routinely refer to/address superiors by their first name. I've seen Cadets on more than one occasion in BDUs with no nametape, CAP tape, grade insignia... Nothing. Just like it came from the manufacturer. I've had Cadets come up to me and start a conversation as if we were best pals.. "Hey, Tomasone, (blah blah blah)..." - and no one in earshot corrects them.
I've asked a few Cadets who have transferred to FLWG from NYWG if things have changed back home, and I have been told that they have not.. So I have to conclude that it's a "FLWG thing" and wonder why no one cares.
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 24, 2013, 08:21:47 PMWhen I got to FLWG, I found the exact opposite.. Barely anyone cared/cares about uniforms and C&C, and, quite frankly, it is reflected in complacency in other aspects of the program. When I have tried to do on the spot corrections, I am labeled a uniform/C&C nazi.. Subordinates routinely refer to/address superiors by their first name. I've seen Cadets on more than one occasion in BDUs with no nametape, CAP tape, grade insignia... Nothing. Just like it came from the manufacturer. I've had Cadets come up to me and start a conversation as if we were best pals.. "Hey, Tomasone, (blah blah blah)..." - and no one in earshot corrects them.
I've asked a few Cadets who have transferred to FLWG from NYWG if things have changed back home, and I have been told that they have not.. So I have to conclude that it's a "FLWG thing" and wonder why no one cares.
I too have noticed this. Although I was a cadet in FLWG, 15 years of my senior membership has been in DCWG, with the last 6 being in FLWG again, but not active. Day vs. night here in FL vs DC. And I must say that I'm not fond of this type of atmosphere. Having just taken over as DCC a few days ago, I intend to change this at the unit level. Times have changed and while WIWAC we were "on our own" so to speak and clearly out of regs a lot (outside of the squadron), when it came to weekly meetings it was with game faces on. Anyone that knows me understands my feelings on cadets in half-uniforms. You don't wear it until it is 100% complete, period.
Come back and see us in 6 months, I think you'll notice a difference.
Looks like I'm a little late but....
C/MSgt,
I know that you have seen others, both cadet and senior, wearing those blouses at various wing events. I've seen it. I too, have heard "It's been authorized by [insert random higher person or HQ here]" when asked about them. When I have asked for the approved supplement for said items, no one has ever given me a satisfying answer. I can assure you that they are not properly authorized and the members that wear them are incorrect. I know that I cannot stop said members from wearing the items from the position I am currently in. I have brought it up to various higher persons and no visible action has been taking towards correcting these issues. I made the decision to personally follow the regs and require the members under me to do so as well. To me, it is an issue of integrity. Others may be ignoring the regs but that does not make it right for me to do it. If you want to talk about this further, just let me know.
Quote from: 800bestofcap on February 21, 2013, 06:43:12 AM
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on February 21, 2013, 06:38:51 AM
So you took 2 minutes to take out a map/compass. Annoying perhaps, but unlikely to be a game changer unless you are doing it 15-30 times. Though I also have to ask where the heck they had it buried? They must have been from the infomercial universe.
I just tested myself. I got up from my computer, walked across the room, picked my pack up out of my closet, put it on, took it off, laid it down, got out my map, dug around and tried to remember where I put the compass (I'm reconfiguring my pack and I'm tired) took it out, and put stuff away and came back to my computer. All at a leisurely stroll. It took me 1.5 minutes to do that. (I used a stopwatch)
Also a note 'They do it at Hawk' does not win you points on this board. IF your Wing/CC is in fact authorizing this stuff (I highly doubt it) I have no doubt a Region/CC would be very interested to see that and that the conversation would not go swimingly for that wing/CC. You probably didn't see the ruckus that a picture from an encampment garnered when it had a bunch of uniform violations and unathorized crap.
I have seen that pic, it was terrible. But 1.5 is still time you could be using treating wounds of victims if it took you .05
I'm curious as to how many 'victims' you've treated in your career?
I think the cadet in question is no longer reading this thread as he stated. At this point you're just kicking a well-done horse that was double-tapped a week ago.
Quite perhaps the folks at MER-NC-800 are having a discussion.. which I have to admit, a fly on the wall would be a curious position .. ;)
"You said what? That we do what?"