New CAPR 39-2 Civil Air Patrol Membership

Started by ßτε, August 04, 2011, 08:53:25 PM

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Eclipse

I'm have no interest in doing your research for you.

"That Others May Zoom"

cust0s

Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2011, 07:01:58 PM
I'm have no interest in doing your research for you.

I already did "my" research, and I have also taught courses on this very subject.  You should do your own homework; the data is out there in plain sight.
Captain, CAP
Deputy Commander, et al.
--
Ph.D. Student (Criminology), LAW, M.A., CERT., B.A.
AFROTC, Cadet (2001-2004)
--
The post above and beneath this one is a lie.

Eclipse

I'm comfortable in my assertions, and don't need to "provide data", as you can't prove a negative.

If you believe it is important to prove otherwise, provide the data, not directions to the library(or links to a 10-year old census and a biased website).

"That Others May Zoom"

cust0s

#63
Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2011, 07:16:15 PM
I'm comfortable in my assertions, and don't need to "provide data", as you can't prove a negative.

If you believe it is important to prove otherwise, provide the data (vs. link to a 10-year old census and a biased website).

I would post the studies, but it would violate copyright laws.  So, if you're unwilling to look them up, then there's not much I can do to change your comfortable position.  Are you a message board troll or something?  I ask because I give you information, you refute that with "bias" or disinterest without even reading it, and yet you keep trying to flame the issue.  A little reading never hurt anyone.

Here's a start:
References

Princiotta, D., Bielick, S., Chapman, C., & National Center for Education Statistics (ED), W. C. (2004). 1.1 Million Homeschooled Students in the United States in 2003. Issue Brief. NCES 2004-115. National Center for Education Statistics, Retrieved from EBSCOhost.

Leeds, M. A. (2010). Academic achievement of students in a charter homeschool. Dissertation Abstracts International Section A, 71, Retrieved from EBSCOhost..

Scheps, S. G. (1999). Homeschoolers in the Library. School Library Journal, 45(2), 38. Retrieved from EBSCOhost.

Lines, P. M., & National Inst. on Student Achievement, C. C. (1999). Homeschoolers: Estimating Numbers and Growth. Retrieved from EBSCOhost.

Reindl, T. (2005). Homeschooling in the United States: Growth... and Growing Pains. College and University, 80(3), 35-36. Retrieved from EBSCOhost.

Reindl, T. (2005). Homeschooling in the United States: Growth...and Growing Pains. College & University, 80(3), 35-36. Retrieved from EBSCOhost.

Luebke, R. V., & Wisconsin Policy Research Inst., M. e. (1999). Homeschooling in Wisconsin: A Review of Current Issues and Trends. Report. Wisconsin Policy Research Report. Retrieved from EBSCOhost.

Hadderman, M., & ERIC Clearinghouse on Educational Management, E. R. (2002). Homeschooling. Trends and Issues. Retrieved from EBSCOhost.

Ray, B. D. (2006). Research Facts on Homeschooling. General Facts and Trends. National Home Education Research Institute, Retrieved from EBSCOhost.

Cambre, B. M. (2009). Tearing down the Walls: Cyber Charter Schools and the Public Endorsement of Religion. TechTrends: Linking Research and Practice to Improve Learning, 53(4), 61-64. Retrieved from EBSCOhost.

Bielick, S., Chapman, C., & National Center for Education Statistics (ED), W. C. (2003). Trends in the Use of School Choice: 1993 to 1999. Statistical Analysis Report. Retrieved from EBSCOhost.

DiPerna, P., & Friedman Foundation for Educational, C. (2009). Virginia's Opinion on K-12 Education and School Choice. School Choice Survey in the State. Friedman Foundation for Educational Choice, Retrieved from EBSCOhost.
Captain, CAP
Deputy Commander, et al.
--
Ph.D. Student (Criminology), LAW, M.A., CERT., B.A.
AFROTC, Cadet (2001-2004)
--
The post above and beneath this one is a lie.

Eclipse

Quote from: cust0s on August 07, 2011, 07:18:39 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2011, 07:16:15 PM
I'm comfortable in my assertions, and don't need to "provide data", as you can't prove a negative.

If you believe it is important to prove otherwise, provide the data (vs. link to a 10-year old census and a biased website).

I would post the studies, but it would violate copyright laws.

If they are available on the web, there is no violation of copyright.  If at least the results aren't public, I would question their veracity anyway.

Let the bell toll...

"That Others May Zoom"

cust0s

#65
Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2011, 07:22:09 PM
Quote from: cust0s on August 07, 2011, 07:18:39 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2011, 07:16:15 PM
I'm comfortable in my assertions, and don't need to "provide data", as you can't prove a negative.

If you believe it is important to prove otherwise, provide the data (vs. link to a 10-year old census and a biased website).

I would post the studies, but it would violate copyright laws.

If they are available on the web, there is no violation of copyright.  If at least the results aren't public, I would question their veracity anyway.

Let the bell toll...

Again, copyright, but here's the persistent links to those articles I posted about above.... you may need to pay a subscription for access.  Not every relevant scholarly source that is useful can be found on "Google" or the web.  You should have learned that in college my friend.

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Captain, CAP
Deputy Commander, et al.
--
Ph.D. Student (Criminology), LAW, M.A., CERT., B.A.
AFROTC, Cadet (2001-2004)
--
The post above and beneath this one is a lie.

JeffDG

Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2011, 07:22:09 PM
If they are available on the web, there is no violation of copyright. 
Seriously?  You need to look a bit LOT closer at Title 17 if you actually believe that.  This very post is subject to copyright.

Spaceman3750

Regarding home schooling, your state laws will vary but in Illinois a home school is legally considered to be a private institution (or at least it was several years ago). That means that realistically the parent could fabricate a school ID of sorts and it would be acceptable as verification of identity, at least in IL.

Eclipse

Quote from: JeffDG on August 07, 2011, 08:17:45 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2011, 07:22:09 PM
If they are available on the web, there is no violation of copyright. 
Seriously?  You need to look a bit LOT closer at Title 17 if you actually believe that.  This very post is subject to copyright.

Yes, subject to.

Everything can be subject to CR, that doesn't make re-posting or linking information already public a CR violation.

"That Others May Zoom"

Spaceman3750

The link I got was a KLN login screen. Only accessible to certain folks. The info isn't public, but behind a login. CR has been protected.

I now return you to your armchair lawyering.

Eclipse

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on August 07, 2011, 09:27:22 PM
The link I got was a KLN login screen. Only accessible to certain folks. The info isn't public, but behind a login. CR has been protected.

I now return you to your armchair lawyering.

What?  You're not going to pay to validate someone else's claims?

Troll?

"That Others May Zoom"

Spaceman3750

Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2011, 09:30:36 PM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on August 07, 2011, 09:27:22 PM
The link I got was a KLN login screen. Only accessible to certain folks. The info isn't public, but behind a login. CR has been protected.

I now return you to your armchair lawyering.

What?  You're not going to pay to validate someone else's claims?

Troll?

Actually, it's behind a university login. Only members of certain institutions can log in.

Now, if he had copy and pasted the studies outside of their system, THAT would have violated the copyright (unlawful redistribution).

JeffDG

Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2011, 09:22:14 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on August 07, 2011, 08:17:45 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2011, 07:22:09 PM
If they are available on the web, there is no violation of copyright. 
Seriously?  You need to look a bit LOT closer at Title 17 if you actually believe that.  This very post is subject to copyright.

Yes, subject to.

Everything can be subject to CR, that doesn't make re-posting or linking information already public a CR violation.
Linking, I'll support.  But reposting without the author's permission is copyright infringement in most cases.  (Situations like narrowly defined "fair use" excepted)

Every time you commit a idea or creative work to a tangible form (like this for instance), copyright attaches immediately.  There is no need to register or claim such rights as the author thereof.  Protection is immediate and automatic.

Whether the holder chooses to exercise or enforce those rights is up to the holder.  If, however, the copyright holder chooses to enforce those rights, you might want to consider the possibility of up to $150k / infringement for civil statutory damages, or $250k + jail time for criminal infringement.  In addition, the successful copyright complaintant can recover attorney's fees, and in one recent case, those totaled $137m (of which only $105m was actual attorney's fees, the other $32m was miscellaneous costs).

DakRadz

 [Filter subversion]

Maybe I will look into law school.

cust0s

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on August 07, 2011, 09:33:18 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2011, 09:30:36 PM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on August 07, 2011, 09:27:22 PM
The link I got was a KLN login screen. Only accessible to certain folks. The info isn't public, but behind a login. CR has been protected.

I now return you to your armchair lawyering.

What?  You're not going to pay to validate someone else's claims?

Troll?

Actually, it's behind a university login. Only members of certain institutions can log in.

Now, if he had copy and pasted the studies outside of their system, THAT would have violated the copyright (unlawful redistribution).
:clap:
Thank you!  This I knew since I took Property Law in law school.  I gave a reference page too, but Eclipse and anyone else for that matter can either type in the information at any library with scholarly access or contact those journals/authors directly.  For those who don't know, those journals retain CR over those articles and they license libraries for access to them.  There is a trend where some are becoming free to the public, but a slow trend at best.  The local library, even university library is free, and well, if people like Eclipse have time to make statements like that, then surely there is time to do some research.
Captain, CAP
Deputy Commander, et al.
--
Ph.D. Student (Criminology), LAW, M.A., CERT., B.A.
AFROTC, Cadet (2001-2004)
--
The post above and beneath this one is a lie.

Eclipse

Or...I don't know...you could use common sense and quote commonly available sources.

This is an internet forum, not a master's thesis. 

The fact that you can't quote more mainstream sources likely means it is because you can't find any.

Regardless, again, do your own research and quote it, or don't. 

A superior attitude and the pretense of some scholarly "force power" won't buy you much here.

"That Others May Zoom"

cust0s

#76
Quote from: Eclipse on August 08, 2011, 12:45:40 AM
Or...I don't know...you could use common sense and quote commonly available sources.
I did but you then rejected them and called them bias and outdated.

Quote from: Eclipse on August 08, 2011, 12:45:40 AM
This is an internet forum, not a master's thesis. 
A master's thesis is actually well beyond the depth and scope of anything on this forum
Quote from: Eclipse on August 08, 2011, 12:45:40 AM
The fact that you can't quote more mainstream sources likely means it is because you can't find any.

Regardless, again, do your own research and quote it, or don't. 
As explained, I did, it's unethical and illegal to quote an entire document for you.  You need to read it for yourself and decide.  I'm not your tutor.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 08, 2011, 12:45:40 AM
A superior attitude and the pretense of some scholarly "force power" won't buy you much here.
Get over yourself.  Again, these are commonly available.  It's not my fault that you look down on the professional world.  If it were not for these scholars most of our society would not exist as it is today.  If you wish to limit yourself to what you consider "mainstream" then you will often be ignorant of the realities of society and all social phenomenon therein.  Grow up! I mean, you would still read and follow the Regs if they weren't available online, wouldn't you?  Not every resource is going to come to you in the form of a free handout.  DO as you wish, but to each there own.  And if you keep up with this attitude then don't get upset when people call you out on your b.s.
Captain, CAP
Deputy Commander, et al.
--
Ph.D. Student (Criminology), LAW, M.A., CERT., B.A.
AFROTC, Cadet (2001-2004)
--
The post above and beneath this one is a lie.

PHall

Quote from: cust0s on August 08, 2011, 01:30:01 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 08, 2011, 12:45:40 AM
Or...I don't know...you could use common sense and quote commonly available sources.

This is an internet forum, not a master's thesis. 

The fact that you can't quote more mainstream sources likely means it is because you can't find any.

Regardless, again, do your own research and quote it, or don't. 

A superior attitude and the pretense of some scholarly "force power" won't buy you much here.

Get over yourself.  These are commonly available.  It's not my fault that you look down on the professional world.  If it were not for these scholars most of our society would not exist as it is today.  Grow up!

Take your own advice son, grow up. You're the one coming off as a spoiled brat. Remember rule #1 for posting, "Do not post when you are angry."

cust0s

#78
Quote from: PHall on August 08, 2011, 01:33:13 AM
Take your own advice son, grow up. You're the one coming off as a spoiled brat. Remember rule #1 for posting, "Do not post when you are angry."

How is this so?  What makes you think I'm spoiled?  I paid my own way through college, law school, masters, and now a PhD.  I'm not angry, just supporting a point.  I will tell it like it is.  If someone doesn't like the truth, well, there's not much I can do about it.  Ignoring it isn't going to make it go away, and letting people make absolute negative statements that are simply untrue about others who are in our organization should not be tolerated either.  Simply put, I will leave it there.  It's not like he had an open mind anyway.  Further, if I am willing to go the extra mile to seek the truth and another is not but continues to reject the evidence, then yes, I would argue that I am superior in the case of the argument.  Why?  Because at least then I did try to meet them halfway with the realities of what we know, they rejected it without even reading any document ("mainstream" or otherwise).  In this case I gave solid, legitimized data and research.  How is that a bad thing?

If I offended anyone by actually supporting a point when it was demanded, well, shucks, sorry.  I don't mean to come off as pompous though online it may seem so, rather, I'm supporting my point and counterpoint.  So to make sure my intentions are clearly understood, here's a smiley face.  :)
Captain, CAP
Deputy Commander, et al.
--
Ph.D. Student (Criminology), LAW, M.A., CERT., B.A.
AFROTC, Cadet (2001-2004)
--
The post above and beneath this one is a lie.

spaatzmom

Quote from: cust0s on August 08, 2011, 01:38:04 AM
Quote from: PHall on August 08, 2011, 01:33:13 AM
Take your own advice son, grow up. You're the one coming off as a spoiled brat. Remember rule #1 for posting, "Do not post when you are angry."

How is this so?  What makes you think I'm spoiled?  I paid my own way through college, law school, masters, and now a PhD.  I'm not angry, just supporting a point.  I will tell it like it is.  If someone doesn't like the truth, well, there's not much I can do about it.  Ignoring it isn't going to make it go away, and letting people make absolute negative statements that are simply untrue about others who are in our organization should not be tolerated either.  Simply put, I will leave it there.  It's not like he had an open mind anyway.  Further, if I am willing to go the extra mile to seek the truth and another is not but continues to reject the evidence, then yes, I would argue that I am superior in the case of the argument.  Why?  Because at least then I did try to meet them halfway with the realities of what we know, they rejected it without even reading any document ("mainstream" or otherwise).  In this case I gave solid, legitimized data and research.  How is that a bad thing?

If I offended anyone by actually supporting a point when it was demanded, well, shucks, sorry.  I don't mean to come off as pompous though online it may seem so, rather, I'm supporting my point and counterpoint.  So to make sure my intentions are clearly understood, here's a smiley face.  :)


Wow!!!!!  I have no dog in this measuring contest, wrong parts thankfully.  But I can say that you do come off as elitist with continually throwing your presumed PhD around.  Yes I say presumed as I have no categorical proof that you indeed possess that degree, after all anyone can state such easily especially on an internet forum.  You are new to this forum and instead of taking the time to learn who you are talking to, you just start attacking others knowledge of the organization; most of them have been in CAP for over 25 years.  They have more insight and therefore credibility concerning it than, I am sorry to say ..... you.

My family has been through the entire program from Curry through Spaatz and now Wilson awards and guess what, I am still learning interesting tidbits about CAP.  It is an ever changing organism.

Good luck with your membership and hopeful growth within the "family" and please do remember that many wing commanders and others who can have a direct affect in your CAP future are also posters here.