If a cadet C/1Lt. is attending a national Encampment and a C/2Lt. is on cadet staff, how should customs and courtesies prevail? This is an encampment that is not military in nature and the cadets and staff do not wear uniforms or rank, although the cadets do know each others rank from the one time they wore uniforms for an encampment picture at the beginning of the encampment.
Quote from: capchiro on July 02, 2007, 06:25:03 PM
If a cadet C/1Lt. is attending a national Encampment and a C/2Lt. is on cadet staff, how should customs and courtesies prevail?
The C/2d Lt is considered above the C/1st Lt for the purposes of the activity. However, the C/2d Lt still renders salutes and appropriate titles of address to the C/1st Lt. In other words, the C/2d Lt can tell the C/1st Lt what to do but the C/1st Lt still outranks the C/2d Lt when it comes to grade.
Quote from: capchiro on July 02, 2007, 06:25:03 PMThis is an encampment that is not military in nature and the cadets and staff do not wear uniforms or rank, although the cadets do know each others rank from the one time they wore uniforms for an encampment picture at the beginning of the encampment.
If it is not military in nature, why is it called an encampment? Do you mean bivouac? Anyway... if your question is, do customs and courtesies apply, the answer is yes. This is because even though it's informal and no uniforms are worn, it's a CAP activity.
Did you say this is a National activity? What's it called? I'm curious.
This can be a delicate situation, depending on the attitudes of both cadets.
I was once a C/1st Lt Sq XO with a C/Capt Flt CC, and then I was a C/Maj C/XO with three C/Lt Col Sq CCs. In both situations, I saluted them and called them ma'am/sir based on their grade. The C/Capt Flt CC (who was one of the C/Lt Col Sq CCs the following summer) chose to render me the same courtesy based on my position of authority over him. The other two C/Lt Cols when I was a C/Maj didn't, which I really didn't care about either way. I figured it was up to them how they wanted to address me, because everyone understood that regardless of grade, I was working on the C/CC's authority.
As far as the situation you are describing, it sounds like a more relaxed atmosphere. Generally, if the cadets are not in uniform for the entire activity, they have the tendency to see each other as peers regardless of grade (aside from staff vs. basic lines of authority) and refer to each other on first name (or at least last name without a grade title) basis.
The main thing to stress to the cadets is that regardless of personal feelings and egos, they need to maintain the standards of professionalism established by the activity commander.
Bascially, they should observe all common military courtesy as if they were in uniform
Quote from: capchiro on July 02, 2007, 06:25:03 PM
This is an encampment that is not military in nature and the cadets and staff do not wear uniforms or rank...
Now I'm confused - if no one is wearing uniforms or rank then there is really no need for saluting, etc. Simple politeness would prevail here. Are we talking about a CAP cadet activity? I guess I need some more background into the activity...
If you can get your hands on it there is a good explanation about all of this in the Old Leadership books (Curry-Mitchell) I think it was in chapter 3 or 4 but I could be mistaken
It's not rocket science.
If the staff member is performing his duties as a staff member he is senior by virtue of his position.
But he still calls the 1st Lt "sir" and would still initiate the salute (unless they are in a formal formation).
We deal with this all the time on AD. I, as a MSgt, was a student with a
SSgt as my instructor. He called me sir and I followed his instructions as if he out ranked me.
Same here. At one point, I was an E-6 instructor with SNCO and officer students. My classroom, my ball, my bat. But you better believe that all the proper military courtesies were observed, in both directions.
And just to note....this goes for all ranks....I've been in classes with A1C's as the instructor and there were full bird Cols in the class room.