Separate Nightime (Darkness) ES Qualification Requirements?

[RADIOMAN015]

Wondering what others more experienced think about implementing a requirement for night time search & rescue training exercises (ground & air) and also add this as a separate qualification to the SQRT?

As we all know operating during the hours of darkness requires a different orientation (and training).  Perhaps this skills set needs to be further developed.    The last 4 missions we've supported locally have been during the hours of darkness.
RM
 

[Eclipse]

As we all know operating during the hours of darkness requires a different orientation (and training). 

Not necessary.  Most ORM situations would preclude night search operations in any area that real night-ops skills are needed.
Even some professional teams call off ops during the night.

[RiverAux]

The only night ground SAR I'm aware of in my area has involved walking trails looking for lost hikers.  They aren't going to start running lines through the woods in the dark.

It might not be a bad idea to have a night hike as a separate task in the GT SQTR as it is certainly possible that even though search ops may be over at dark, you might still end up having to hike back to the van in the dark. 

[wuzafuzz]

A little bit of navigation at night along with a trail hike would be a good thing IMHO. 

It's not a stretch for our folks to be on a trail at night, even if only for RTB.  Throw in a purposely altered, vandalized, or missing trail marker (I've seen plenty) and it could be easy to take a wrong turn.

[ZigZag911]

In NJW we have done night SAR flying and UDF ground work for years...primarily ELT/electronic work.

Never heard of a real GT heading out into the woods in the dark!

[Al Sayre]

As an IC I wouldn't send a GT out in the woods in the dark, the ORM would be off the chart.  Night flying SAR is generally limited to electronic searches along the known route of flight or area given by AFRCC.  UDF ramp checks at 0200 are pretty routine though.

[PHall]

In CAWG at least, about 50% of the UDF sorties are after dark. Probably because of that corollary to Murphy's Law, "no ELT goes off before 9PM."

[SarDragon]

Or if they do, it's after 9 by the time the rubber hits the road.

[Pingree1492]

As an IC I wouldn't send a GT out in the woods in the dark, the ORM would be off the chart. 

Which is a very good reason to train more to bring that risk down.

I would be in favor of adding a night qualification to the GTM/GTL/UDF SQTR's.  Though NOT as something to be done to get qualified, but rather more like an 'add-on' rating that can be achieved after your basic GTM-3 or UDF qualification is obtained.

There are plenty of agencies that do Ground SAR in the dark all the time- most trackers like to work in the hours of darkness.  Also, I know of a couple of finds we've made from the air during the night off of ELT's. 

[Al Sayre]

Electronic searches in the air are one thing with a GT to work with them on an airport or near a road.  As I said before, I won't send a GT into the woods at night.  Train for it if you want, but when some cadet breaks his leg falling over a log in the dark, you are the one that gets to fill out all the safety paper work and call the parents...

[N Harmon]

Train for it if you want, but when some cadet breaks his leg falling over a log in the dark, you are the one that gets to fill out all the safety paper work and call the parents...

And if some cadet breaks his leg falling over a log in the day time, we don't have to fill out safety paper work and call the parents?

I think blanket restrictions on night operations is a bad idea. Granted it is your call as an IC, but one would hope you could at least make a decision on a case by case basis.

[TACP]

Electronic searches in the air are one thing with a GT to work with them on an airport or near a road.  As I said before, I won't send a GT into the woods at night.  Train for it if you want, but when some cadet breaks his leg falling over a log in the dark, you are the one that gets to fill out all the safety paper work and call the parents...

And this is why County Sheriff SAR Explorer units tend to have such a better reputation than us...

[heliodoc]

Sometimes paid and non paid affiliated LE folks are just as good or better, at times, than CAP

Facts are hard to argue with when its statute in some States.

With some of CAP's risk averse nature, this by now, I would imagine, would have plenty of GT and their leaders on pins and needles due to "CAP ORM"   But with everything......there's methods to the mitigation....

It ought to case by case by case basis...I know the Sqdn I am with operates at night and does night land nav

Its a SLOOOW  process.  No heavy speed expectations, no reason to lose track of your team mates, no reason to hurry.  No reason to send injured cadets home to the folks.

I know this will tick a few particular CAPTAlkers off......  wildland fire operates at night..we seem to do all right

Don't see how CAP would have a problem with this

Why not CAP?  You figure it out while WE are training at night!!!

[Short Field]

Why not CAP?  You figure it out while WE are training at night!!!

Are you saying the CAP unit you are in is operating at night or some other organization you are in?   If it is a CAP unit, then I guess CAP has figured it out. 

Personally, I'll leave the ground teams in the camp grounds at night.  Functions such as perimeter security or directing traffic are fine after dark but we don't need to be tromping over the clues that we might find in the daylight.  If you live in "gentle" country, night navigation training is fine.  However, trying to move at night over rough terrain is a bit prone to generating injuries.  Nothing is more fun than trying to separate a 14 year old from the clump of cholla she just walk through.       

[Short Field]

I personally don't think a Nightime ES qual is necessary or even desirable.  If you have a mission that needs to be performed at night and the benefits outweigh the risk, then go ahead and do it. 

[lordmonar]

Let's no be bad mouthing ORM, just because someone decides to be safe instead of sorry.

As for requiring "night" quals....I just don't think they are necessary.  Air crew already have night quals in the form of the pilot must be night current if his flight is going to take him past civil twilight....ground teams should be bedding down if they get caught out too late.

As for the UDF stuff....no problem we can do that at night if we want to.

Requiring Night Quals....simply means that WE MUST do night ops.....even if never use the ability. 

[raivo]

I remember when I was at NGSAR and a cadet staff member dropped their radio after dark in a fairly large field.

You haven't experienced futility until you've spent half an hour line-searching through chest-high grass with nothing for illumination but red-filtered flashlights. :/

[ZigZag911]

I just don't see any need for GTs in the woods at night.

Do wilderness SAR teams (far better prepared than our folks) operate in this way at night?

[TACP]

You haven't experienced futility until you've spent half an hour line-searching through chest-high grass with nothing for illumination but red-filtered flashlights. :/

That's the team at fault for not having proper equipment. SAR is not a tactical operation that requires red only lights, and should be working to be SEEN. Half the time a person lost in the woods will see you first.

And ZigZag911:
Yes, your average County SAR team is going to have no issues going into the woods at night. They are generally outfitted the same as our 72 hr packs, but spend time completing valuable night training. Keep in mind most of these organizations members start between ages 14-18, and they do EVERYTHING needed on a Search.

[raivo]

That's the team at fault for not having proper equipment. SAR is not a tactical operation that requires red only lights, and should be working to be SEEN. Half the time a person lost in the woods will see you first.

The rationale was that we were saving our night vision.

To this day, I am unsure why having night vision but not being able to see, was better than losing my night vision but being able to see.