Its volunteers perform 90 percent of the inland search and rescue missions in th

[wingnut55]

I am embarrassed that CAP continues to use this in National and Local press releases. This is a completely false statement. My concern; That by constantly putting this in the news, I have been told by those people who know the truth scoff at CAP and are critical of CAP.

CAP both National and Locally, should not be  telling people we are something we are not.

What is wrong with;

Civil Air Patrol Does 90% of Missing Aircraft searches in the United States for the United States Air Force

[RiverAux]

Usually this statement also includes something along the lines of "as tasked by the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center" in which case it is generally accurate - though the percentage does seem to vary between 85-95% depending on the year.  If they aren't using the latter clause, then they are incorrect. 

[Short Field]

So what is the truth?  What precent do we perform and what percent do other agencies perform?  Who are the people that scoff at us?

Big bold statement, how about some facts to back it up?

[RiverAux]

Here is what CAP NHQ used in the anniversary press release:

CAP responds day or night when planes are overdue and emergency locator transmitters go off. Its volunteers perform 90 percent of continental U.S. inland search and rescue missions, as tasked by the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center.

AFRCC hasn't published a report for several years, but a while back I did some fact checking and the numbers CAP have been using are right in the ballpark. 

[Flying Pig]

Being in Law Enforcement SAR, I can say with pretty good certainty that we dont do 90% of the nations SAR.  CAP has a couple other blurbs it likes to put out as well, such as stating that we were the first to provide photos of ground zero on 9/11.  Sorry, we were way behind the first photos and videos.

[Eclipse]

Bear in mind that Inland SAR, as the USAF sees it, is not unnecessarily every missing Alzheimer's patient or Amber Alert.

Its a pretty specific definition within the scope of the USAF's CONUS mission.

Also, most of the DR work that we do perform doesn't fall into that category.

The number is close enough for conversation...

[wingnut55]

Well grasshopper, How can you prove that CAP

"Does 90% of the SEARCH and RESCUE in the United States"



This is a completely false and missleading Press release, who are we trying to impress?  Us!! are we really that needy that we have to lie to people about what we do, I guess it is why we have 99% officers and a few hundred enlisted people, so we can stand around and admire our ribbons.

Let me tell you that it is known in many quarters that CAP can barely handle the mission and the truth is 30% of  flying is in support of CD not searching. Once the ELT false alarm fiasco goes away, my oh my what will we do??

Put wreaths on graves? is that what CAP was created for? Park Cars at air shows?

Look at the aircraft usage numbers for wings. 200 hours per aircraft/per year? not even close

I have participated in Searches in California, Arizona, and Utah many of the CAP pilots who actually do are in their upper 60s, and a significant number are older. Not good! recruiting and retention is in the soup, Pilots are leaving CAP in record numbers.

Giving them more bling and making them all Majors is not helping.

[RiverAux]

Being in Law Enforcement SAR, I can say with pretty good certainty that we dont do 90% of the nations SAR.  CAP has a couple other blurbs it likes to put out as well, such as stating that we were the first to provide photos of ground zero on 9/11.  Sorry, we were way behind the first photos and videos.

Who beat us for airborne photos?

[wingnut55]

Try Google search for CAP and check news here are just 2

Today, CAP performs all kinds of missions and serves the local community. They conduct more than 90-percent of land rescue missions in the United States
http://www.rrdailyherald.com/articles/2008/11/18/news/doc492307859f68d964393982.txt

It responds day or night when a plane is overdue and an emergency locator transmitter goes off. Its volunteers perform 90 percent of the inland search and rescue missions in the continental U.S

http://blogs.kansas.com/aviation/2008/11/24/civil-air-patrol-celebrates/

This is just a LIE and it should be stopped, CAP needs to take a responsible position in the Search and Rescue Community, we are doing continued damage to our already damaged reputation in the Law Enforcement, Fire Department, and search and Rescue organizations in every county of the U.S.

And if we have the PAO program that re say we do than they are poorly trained and Missinformed, ergo the perpatuate a falsehood.

[heliodoc]

Airborne photos??

Unless CAP can prove it was off the ground in 1 hour, I can imagine the FIRST photos (airborne) were that of the news media helos and LE shortly thereafter...

Yup CAP did some but the FIRST................ do not think so unless  FAA has it on tape....

[Ricochet13]

Airborne photos??

Unless CAP can prove it was off the ground in 1 hour, I can imagine the FIRST photos (airborne) were that of the news media helos and LE shortly thereafter...

Yup CAP did some but the FIRST................ do not think so unless  FAA has it on tape....

Someone correct me.  As I recall, ALL aircraft (including media helos, etc) except military were grounded on September 11th after the nature of the attacks became known.  Even commercial flights inbound to the United States had to seek landings in Canada, etc.  CAP aircraft were used to provide aerial damage assessment.   Again, as I recall, it was several days before I could roll out my Skyhawk and fly. 

[Ricochet13]

Well grasshopper, How can you prove that CAP

"Does 90% of the SEARCH and RESCUE in the United States"

This is a completely false and missleading Press release, who are we trying to impress?  Us!! are we really that needy that we have to lie to people about what we do, I guess it is why we have 99% officers and a few hundred enlisted people, so we can stand around and admire our ribbons.

Let me tell you that it is known in many quarters that CAP can barely handle the mission and the truth is 30% of  flying is in support of CD not searching. Once the ELT false alarm fiasco goes away, my oh my what will we do??

Put wreaths on graves? is that what CAP was created for? Park Cars at air shows?

Look at the aircraft usage numbers for wings. 200 hours per aircraft/per year? not even close

I have participated in Searches in California, Arizona, and Utah many of the CAP pilots who actually do are in their upper 60s, and a significant number are older. Not good! recruiting and retention is in the soup, Pilots are leaving CAP in record numbers.

Giving them more bling and making them all Majors is not helping.

I was going to respond to this, but frankly, there must be something else going on which motivates this type of comment, so I won't.  Doesn't seem to fit what I see in my squadron, group, and wing.   

[lordmonar]

Yep....another "let's bash CAP for no good reason" post.

Lock?

[RiverAux]

wingnut, the official CAP statement is that we do 90% of the SAR as tasked by AFRCC.  That number is accurate.  Pull up some of the older AFRCC reports and do the math and you will find that it is just about right (as I said earlier, the exact percentage will vary from year to year).  

I am sure that you will be able to find more than a few CAP press releases that get it wrong and say that we do 90% of SAR in the US.  When such statements are seen, I would hope that someone would correct the person that issued the release.

However, even when the CAP statement is worded correctly in the release that the media will often make it wrong by leaving off the AFRCC statement.  

No big CAP conspiracy here.

[KyCAP]

Look at the aircraft usage numbers for wings. 200 hours per aircraft/per year? not even close

KY  AVG Hours 277  8.3 aircraft ...  We asked for additional aircraft to support the load.... for 6 months.

[isuhawkeye]

I wasn't planning on getting into this conversation, but I thought I would ask. 

During Katrina the AFRCC must have tasked a lot of flights.  It would be interesting to see the numbers for that year,

No CAP bashing intended

[KyCAP]

I've had the same thoughts, but since it was basically a "maritime" event in the main area and the "USCG" handling those probably just beefed up the "maritime" stats...  Just a thought..

[RiverAux]

AFRCC didn't handle Katrina.  AFNSEP (might have changed its name) does AF disasater-related taskings. 

[FW]

Airborne photos??

Unless CAP can prove it was off the ground in 1 hour, I can imagine the FIRST photos (airborne) were that of the news media helos and LE shortly thereafter...

Yup CAP did some but the FIRST................ do not think so unless  FAA has it on tape....

Someone correct me.  As I recall, ALL aircraft (including media helos, etc) except military were grounded on September 11th after the nature of the attacks became known.  Even commercial flights inbound to the United States had to seek landings in Canada, etc.  CAP aircraft were used to provide aerial damage assessment.   Again, as I recall, it was several days before I could roll out my Skyhawk and fly. 

A CAP aircraft was circling ground zero at the request of  Gov. Pitaki on 9/12  It was the first civilian aircraft to fly over the site and take pictures.  The pictures show ground zero to still be smoldering from the fires and explosions.  CNN was the first news agency to report this fact and was picked up later by many other agencies.  The aircrew was given a commendation from Gen Bowling and there is a painting of the sortie at NHQ.  Prints have been given out to members for the last 7 years.  

As far as the "90%" comment is concerned.  The "full" statement is accurate as reported.  That it sometimes gets distorted is unfortunate however, CAP stands by the statement as does the Air Force.  Any other comments on this do not warrant a response, IMHO.

[RiverAux]

Airborne photos??

Unless CAP can prove it was off the ground in 1 hour, I can imagine the FIRST photos (airborne) were that of the news media helos and LE shortly thereafter...

Yup CAP did some but the FIRST................ do not think so unless  FAA has it on tape....

According to the 2001 CAP Annual report:

"Civil Air Patrol provided the first direct aerial perspective of the disaster site for the STate of New York," says Dan O'Brien, Graphic Information Program Manager for the State Emergency Operations center in Albany, N.Y....."The photos were the first images we'd seen looking down on the site and showed debris on top of the buildings and damage to rooftops."

Unfortunately I think we're seeing the start of another urban myth that is going to infect CAPTalk for years.  I'd advise you to keep a copy of the quote above handy as we're probably going to need it again....