GTM3 and other Qualifications

[airdale12]

I had completed it that same day. Well lets move to another topic. Why are these sign offs by your squadron commander necessary??  I understand the first one but the rest?? If im at a national activity I cant do much unless my squadron cdr signs off on them???

Because your squadron Commander is ultimately responsible for you in a CAP context, and is the person within the chain who is most likely
to know you on a personal level and be able to judge whether you are ready for the responsibilities of the qualification you are requesting.

He may also be the only one who knows that you have an open disciplinary issue, or in the case of cadets, are not progressing properly and
therefore should not be involved in extracurricular activities until the core responsibilities as a cadet are handled.

Not everything is objective criteria.  You might be a perfectly adequate GT3, but not mature or experienced enough to lead a team and therefore dangerous.  In that case he may well deny or delay your GTL, (etc.).

But wat about if im at a national activity? I just wasted all the time, money and effort just to get my FAM/Prep done???

National ES activites such as NESA have the authority to sign off SQTRs inplace of the unit commander.

They do, but this has been a fair point of contention in my wing and others, if for no other reason then the NESA staff or others are not
in the member's chain.  Also, and this may have changed, but traditionally, earning a GT badge at NESA is not the same as being mission
qualified.  It was not unusual in years past, especially for cadets, for them to go to NESA, never get a radio card or first aid done, and
never actually finish the mission qualification even though they were qualified to wear the badge.

I also knew of a few who had qualification approvals removed because they unit CC did not feel they were ready to be approved.

All this is well within the regs and in fact a responsibility of a unit CC.

But if the CC doesn't think that person is ready then he should even allow them to start the FAM/Prep.

[lordmonar]

He may allow the individual to start the fam training......but not feel the individual is ready to actually move to the field.

So the second signature after FAM training is to ensure the individual is infact ready to take on duties as a trainee in the field.

Same story with you NSCA.  One would assume that if you were given the green light to go to NESA, NBB or Hawk Mountain then they are ready to green light any training you would receive at these activities.

[Eclipse]

But if the CC doesn't think that person is ready then he should even allow them to start the FAM/Prep.

Things change, people get in trouble, people don't live up to expectations, people don't understand the responsibilities, people ignore
the requirements and try to do whatever they want to do.

That's the point of FAM/Prep, to familiarize and prepare the person for what could be a job that protects life and property.  It also
gives those charged with the responsibility the chance to evaluate the person for the role.

[airdale12]

I was referring to minor regs with that comment.

Please define "minor reg", or does the term "Safety BS" say enough?

yes it does

[Eclipse]

It tells us a lot as well...

[airdale12]

He may allow the individual to start the fam training......but not feel the individual is ready to actually move to the field.

So the second signature after FAM training is to ensure the individual is infact ready to take on duties as a trainee in the field.

Same story with you NSCA.  One would assume that if you were given the green light to go to NESA, NBB or Hawk Mountain then they are ready to green light any training you would receive at these activities.

But does it work like this, if i go to hawk and work on my gtm3 FAM/Prep pass it can i start on my advanced? or does my CC have to endorse me?

[a2capt]

Yup.. as I noted in the other thread. Ah well.. can't please everyone, not even with a free doughnut.

If you're so tired of it, maybe it's time to move on, find another organization that might see things your way.

[airdale12]

It tells us a lot as well...

You honestly think that having a safety meeting once a month is really going to keep me safe? or by completing intro to cap safety two years after joining and completing Adv ORM is going to help???

[airdale12]

Yup.. as I noted in the other thread. Ah well.. can't please everyone, not even with a free doughnut.

If you're so tired of it, maybe it's time to move on, find another organization that might see things your way.

You know if I could go to on organization that had the same mission with out the bs yes i would definitely move.

[Spaceman3750]

Yup.. as I noted in the other thread. Ah well.. can't please everyone, not even with a free doughnut.

If you're so tired of it, maybe it's time to move on, find another organization that might see things your way.

You know if I could go to on organization that had the same mission with out the bs yes i would definitely move.

BS? Training the way the program was designed? Look, either follow the rules or find a different sandbox to play in. I can certainly understand why you are frustrated but you're likely to get much farther by just completing the extra mission and moving on. The extra practice can't hurt.

Get your ESO to put something together. I have found the ICs in my wing are very easy to work with and are always willing to help.

[Eclipse]

It tells us a lot as well...

You honestly think that having a safety meeting once a month is really going to keep me safe? or by completing intro to cap safety two years after joining and completing Adv ORM is going to help???

No.  Keeping you safe is your job.

Safety briefings and related training are there only to remind you of the dangers and provide you techniques to keep yourself, and those around you who might be effected by your mistakes, safe.

They are part and parcel of any similar organization, and ever more a part of professional PD, FD, SAR agencies and the military.
Checklists, ORM, procedures, and other "BS", make sure mistakes are kept to a minimum, and raise the level of attention
of everyone involved.

The only thing more dangerous than someone who knows nothing is someone who believes they know everything or know "better".

[airdale12]

It tells us a lot as well...

You honestly think that having a safety meeting once a month is really going to keep me safe? or by completing intro to cap safety two years after joining and completing Adv ORM is going to help???

No.  Keeping you safe is your job.

Safety briefings and related training are there only to remind you of the dangers and provide you techniques to keep yourself, and those around you who might be effected by your mistakes, safe.

They are part and parcel of any similar organization, and ever more a part of professional PD, FD, SAR agencies and the military.
Checklists, ORM, procedures, and other "BS", make sure mistakes are kept to a minimum, and raise the level of attention
of everyone involved.

The only thing more dangerous than someone who knows nothing is someone who believes they know everything or know "better".

If I learn something from the CAP Safety was from the online geo tagging course but that's about it.
If you use common sense you will be pretty safe.

[airdale12]

Yup.. as I noted in the other thread. Ah well.. can't please everyone, not even with a free doughnut.

If you're so tired of it, maybe it's time to move on, find another organization that might see things your way.

You know if I could go to on organization that had the same mission with out the bs yes i would definitely move.

BS? Training the way the program was designed? Look, either follow the rules or find a different sandbox to play in. I can certainly understand why you are frustrated but you're likely to get much farther by just completing the extra mission and moving on. The extra practice can't hurt.

Get your ESO to put something together. I have found the ICs in my wing are very easy to work with and are always willing to help.

I recently found an IC and im working on a mission number, wat im ticked of is that im going to hawk in 7 days, i wanted to got as a GTM3 to start working on my GTM2 or GTL but now if i go i wont get far because i need my squadron commanders approval :/

[Spaceman3750]

Yup.. as I noted in the other thread. Ah well.. can't please everyone, not even with a free doughnut.

If you're so tired of it, maybe it's time to move on, find another organization that might see things your way.

You know if I could go to on organization that had the same mission with out the bs yes i would definitely move.

BS? Training the way the program was designed? Look, either follow the rules or find a different sandbox to play in. I can certainly understand why you are frustrated but you're likely to get much farther by just completing the extra mission and moving on. The extra practice can't hurt.

Get your ESO to put something together. I have found the ICs in my wing are very easy to work with and are always willing to help.

I recently found an IC and im working on a mission number, wat im ticked of is that im going to hawk in 7 days, i wanted to got as a GTM3 to start working on my GTM2 or GTL but now if i go i wont get far because i need my squadron commanders approval :/

Something stinks here. We've gone from being denied the qual by wing because of the fact that one of your mission dates was before you were green lighted as a trainee to needing approval for FAM PREP? You should already have that if your qual approval went all the way to wing.

If your squadron commander wants you to be a trainee and you have done all the tasks it takes 3 seconds for him or his designee to approve you. If he doesn't want to approve you, figure out why and fix it. You act like SQCC approval is a really big deal - I think we're missing some of the facts here.

How are you planning a mission if your CC isn't approving of it anyways?

[Eclipse]

Assuming you're ready, you have no way to contact your CC in 7 days?

If he is willing, the approval is a click.  If he is not, then it won't matter.

[airdale12]

Assuming you're ready, you have no way to contact your CC in 7 days?

If he is willing, the approval is a click.  If he is not, then it won't matter.

Once Im at Hawk I dnt know if I will be able to contact him. I know he wont mind.

[airdale12]

Yup.. as I noted in the other thread. Ah well.. can't please everyone, not even with a free doughnut.

If you're so tired of it, maybe it's time to move on, find another organization that might see things your way.

You know if I could go to on organization that had the same mission with out the bs yes i would definitely move.

BS? Training the way the program was designed? Look, either follow the rules or find a different sandbox to play in. I can certainly understand why you are frustrated but you're likely to get much farther by just completing the extra mission and moving on. The extra practice can't hurt.

Get your ESO to put something together. I have found the ICs in my wing are very easy to work with and are always willing to help.

I recently found an IC and im working on a mission number, wat im ticked of is that im going to hawk in 7 days, i wanted to got as a GTM3 to start working on my GTM2 or GTL but now if i go i wont get far because i need my squadron commanders approval :/

Something stinks here. We've gone from being denied the qual by wing because of the fact that one of your mission dates was before you were green lighted as a trainee to needing approval for FAM PREP? You should already have that if your qual approval went all the way to wing.

If your squadron commander wants you to be a trainee and you have done all the tasks it takes 3 seconds for him or his designee to approve you. If he doesn't want to approve you, figure out why and fix it. You act like SQCC approval is a really big deal - I think we're missing some of the facts here.

How are you planning a mission if your CC isn't approving of it anyways?

Im talking about getting other training done while at Hawk. I wont be able to contact him and ask him to sign it off for me.

My CC does approve us having mission, that is why we are planning one, I never said he doesnt approve.

[Spaceman3750]

Assuming you're ready, you have no way to contact your CC in 7 days?

If he is willing, the approval is a click.  If he is not, then it won't matter.

Once Im at Hawk I dnt know if I will be able to contact him. I know he wont mind.

They don't have telephones at Hawk? You can't get pre approval and backdate the entry later?

[airdale12]

Assuming you're ready, you have no way to contact your CC in 7 days?

If he is willing, the approval is a click.  If he is not, then it won't matter.

Once Im at Hawk I dnt know if I will be able to contact him. I know he wont mind.

They don't have telephones at Hawk? You can't get pre approval and backdate the entry later?

I guess I can always do your second comment.

[a2capt]

Perhaps someone who is in an authority position at Hawk Mountain might be reading this thread.. and be able to identify the attitude in person .. that'll be interesting. If you go there with the same attitude, lets see how far that gets. Tell them it's all BS.