Changing Civil Air Patrol to U.S. Civil Air Patrol

[afgeo4]

My main question is:  WHY are these items never on the agenda?   

The items likely to cause the most controversey never appear on the agenda before the NB meetings.  They just pop up during the meeting and get rail-roaded through into a vote.

What about giving the voting members of the NB time to think about the issues and not put them on the spot?  What about, for the better NB members, give them time to ask their CAP colleagues and subordinates what they think on certain issues? 

Are these items not thought-of in time to make the agenda, or were they not put on there for a reason?

Even the Air Force submits proposed changes for feedback from the force. This feedback is then used to consider the proposed item along with wear testing and the feasibility (financial) of the item.

[DNall]

Even the Air Force submits proposed changes for feedback from the force. This feedback is then used to consider the proposed item along with wear testing and the feasibility (financial) of the item.

You mean like due diligence or maybe just properly staffing an issue?

[SarDragon]

OK, back to the OT crapola for a sec or two - I have all the numbers nailed down through 49. The list is alphabetical, excluding AK, HI, and PR. If anyone knows their old numbers, we'll have it all. DCWG is officially National Capitol Wing, and fits in the list.

</OT>

[DNall]

LtCol Horning is in HI, he'd know that one I bet, you can PM him.

Is there support though for knocking off the BS & if we want to go at this one nationwide CAP thing then drop the state names & go by Wg numbers?

[Hawk200]

OK, back to the OT crapola for a sec or two - I have all the numbers nailed down through 49. The list is alphabetical, excluding AK, HI, and PR. If anyone knows their old numbers, we'll have it all. DCWG is officially National Capitol Wing, and fits in the list.

Alaska's old was 50. Was in a unit up there back in the '90's.

[PhoenixRisen]

Is there support though for knocking off the BS & if we want to go at this one nationwide CAP thing then drop the state names & go by Wg numbers?

I like the idea, but wouldn't that get somewhat confusing after a while?  (If you've got multiple units working together.)

[shorning]

LtCol Horning is in HI, he'd know that one I bet, you can PM him.

Yes, Lt Col Horning is.  Dave knows where I am, and I have no doubt that he knows how to contact me.

[ddelaney103]

If this meant we could lose the flag patch, I'd be OK with that.  Problem is we'll be stuck with both.

[shorning]

Alaska's old was 50.

I find that hard to believe.  Their wing patch says "49". 

Edit:  Ugh...just looked at some documentation from the wing and it had "51XXX".  Dang odd-ball states.  Last in the Union!  Yea!

[DNall]

I like the idea, but wouldn't that get somewhat confusing after a while?  (If you've got multiple units working together.)

I really don't care so much if the branch tape has US on it or not, it's the cost & hassle comppunded with not explaining why I have to tax my people once again.

If we accept the assumption that it's about tearing down state/wing barriers to build this vision of a nationwide CAP, which makes sense, then I really think going to numbered wings & mandating Wg patches off uniforms is the way to go versus incurring $200k on members just after we've bottomed out from a retention crisis.

It doesn't seem that hard to me, state the vision, ask for feedback & engage with membership & leadership to so they take ownership, sell the vision, make smart well thought out moves that people have some warning on.

[RiverAux]

By the way, I'm not sure that the 200K figure for replacing tapes is figured correctly.  I think that came out as 1 tape per person for everybody in CAP.  While you can figure at least one tape per cadet since most have BDUs, a sizable portion will probably have another on their field jacket. 

On the senior side I'd only estimate that 10-20% wear BDUs, so one tape for them, and again a certain percentage would have a second on their field jacket. 

Too tired to do the math.  Not sure if it would come out to more or less than 200K. 

However, on an individual basis it would probably cost me about $12 to buy the tapes and pay to have them sewn on. 

[PhoenixRisen]

I like the idea, but wouldn't that get somewhat confusing after a while?  (If you've got multiple units working together.)

I really don't care so much if the branch tape has US on it or not, it's the cost & hassle comppunded with not explaining why I have to tax my people once again.

I was actually referring to the option of referring to wings by their numbers, rather than states.  Not the "U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL" name tapes.

[afgeo4]

Even the Air Force submits proposed changes for feedback from the force. This feedback is then used to consider the proposed item along with wear testing and the feasibility (financial) of the item.

You mean like due diligence or maybe just properly staffing an issue?

Hey! Don't you get any crazy ideas! 

[DNall]

I like the idea, but wouldn't that get somewhat confusing after a while?  (If you've got multiple units working together.)

I was actually referring to the option of referring to wings by their numbers, rather than states.  Not the "U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL" name tapes.

Yeah what confusion? You'd still be in the same wing w/ the same people in units with the same names. Only dif would be the 42nd CAP Wing rather than Texas Wing. The only people that'll have a problem with it are the ones with a little too much state-pride, which the point of the policy is to break down those barriers.

[NAYBOR]

I personally can live with "US Civil Air Patrol".   I just wish the branch tapes were subdued, like state defense forces, ACA, USNSCC, etc. etc. do, and our rank and patches were subdued too, like the rest of 'em.

[SAR-EMT1]

US Civil Air PAtrol... gimmie a break!
If they subdue the tapes Id feel better.
If they would just allow USAF Aux OR USAF Auxiliary or US Air Force Aux (would that fit?) I'd feel the best.

[JohnKachenmeister]

US Civil Air PAtrol... gimmie a break!
If they subdue the tapes Id feel better.
If they would just allow USAF Aux OR USAF Auxiliary or US Air Force Aux (would that fit?) I'd feel the best.

Heretic!

You speak Blasphemy!

Burn Him!

[A.Member]

US Civil Air PAtrol... gimmie a break!
...If they would just allow USAF Aux OR USAF Auxiliary or US Air Force Aux (would that fit?) I'd feel the best.

x2. 

If they're really itching so much to make a change, USAF AUX or USAF AUXILIARY would be best.  I have to believe there would be much less dissent.  Nonetheless, that's not what they did.

[shorning]

If they subdue the tapes Id feel better.

I can just hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth now!  Just think how many people would complain about the expense if we switched all our patches and insignia to subdued.  And it would have to be all of it.  In some cases, that would mean redesigning patches, because loosing the ability to show off their "bling" isn't going to sit well with members either. 

Then there's always the question, "who's going to pay?"  Guess what.  The cost to redesign everything will be passed on to the member.  Why do we insist on making the price of membership so expensive?  Just to look military?

[MIKE]

I think I'm going to just buy one new uniform when I need to have the new tapes on, rather than trying to salvage the other uniforms.  Not going to bother with additional sets unless I need them for an activity.