Buttons on the Service Jacket

tjaxe · August 22, 2008, 03:51:42 AM

I purchased a service coat from an air force installation. It has "Hap Arnold" buttons but I heard I need to change these buttons out for CAP-style buttons. Of course, nothing is as easy as it sounds...

Vanguard has all of these different buttons - 30 Linge, 36 Linge, etc. I'm not sure what to get. Plus there's two different sized buttons on my jacket – one size down the front and a smaller size on the epaulette. Can anyone give me advice on the buttons I should get? BTW – the jacket is women's, if that matters.

Thanks!!!!

Tracey

Eclipse · August 22, 2008, 03:54:28 AM

CAP members wear the 3-button "new" style service coat with the Hap Arnold buttons as they come. No change is necessary.

The CAP buttons are for the double-breasted corporate service jacket.

jimmydeanno · August 22, 2008, 03:55:47 AM

Quote from: tjaxe on August 22, 2008, 03:51:42 AM
I purchased a service coat from an air force installation. It has "Hap Arnold" buttons but I heard I need to change these buttons out for CAP-style buttons. Of course, nothing is as easy as it sounds...

Vanguard has all of these different buttons - 30 Linge, 36 Linge, etc. I'm not sure what to get. Plus there's two different sized buttons on my jacket – one size down the front and a smaller size on the epaulette. Can anyone give me advice on the buttons I should get? BTW – the jacket is women's, if that matters.

Thanks!!!!

Tracey

You don't need to change the buttons, leave them as is. Changing them to the CAP buttons would be incorrect.

EDIT: Ooop, ^ beat me to it...

tjaxe · August 22, 2008, 03:57:12 AM

Thanks guys!!!

AlphaSigOU · August 22, 2008, 10:45:52 AM

In the olden days WIWAC, we did have to change out the AF seal buttons to CAP seal buttons; a practice that eventually fell by the wayside.

Now if they got rid of those gaudy silver-plated buttons on the CSU service dress and brought back the old silver oxide CAP seal buttons it would look even better.

To give you an idea about these funny-sounding 'ligne' sizes, these are replacement button sizes:

25 ligne - epaulet and patch pocket buttons. A special 25-ligne screw-post button is used for the chinstrap of the service cap.
30 ligne - front of the service dress jacket for the female service dress jacket (older style)
36 ligne - front of the service dress jacket
45 ligne - worn only on the overcoat

Three different types of buttons:

AF seal: used on the old-style AF service dress jacket. Silver oxide finish. Unavailable unless you cannibalize a surplus jacket.

CAP seal: the silver plated ones go on the CSU service dress only. Silver oxide CAP buttons are collector's items these days.

Hap Arnold: used only on the new-style AF service dress jacket. The retro-style service dress jacket (whenever it's fully introduced) wil keep the Hap Arnold wing-and star buttons.

Strongly recommend reinforcing the attachment of the buttons with a little sewing, as they are kinda flimsily attached.

tjaxe · August 22, 2008, 01:47:41 PM

Alpha,
Thanks so much for all of this information. It's a shame Vanguard doesn't post even one ounce of description regarding the different linge and what they're for. Ahhh... but I guess I ask too much from them.

Thanks again!

alamrcn · August 22, 2008, 02:43:57 PM

Even better...

The Major General shoulder boards made by Vanguard for Amy Courter's mess dress (to be worn at her inauguration this month) had 25-Ligne CAP buttons. Well, female mess dress boards aren't supposed to have ANY buttons!

These one-off historical items are now in the National Archives, and a permanent reminder of Vanguard's illustrious legacy of understanding the Civil Air Patrol uniform!

I believe Maj Gen Courter, and every other female officer, just wear the normal USAF boards with nothing CAP specific on them...

Eclipse · August 22, 2008, 02:52:24 PM

Its a CAP tradition that every female National Commander has worn the exact same uniform for their entire tenure as commander (as of this date).

MIKE · August 22, 2008, 03:09:38 PM

Quote from: alamrcn on August 22, 2008, 02:43:57 PM
I believe Maj Gen Courter, and every other female officer, just wear the normal USAF boards with nothing CAP specific on them...

Should have the blue strips instead of silver just like every other CAP senior member officer male and female.

The CAP distinctive buttons would have been for the old style service uniforms. Edit: And mess dress, I just looked and I think the only place they mention different buttons in the current manual is mess dress.

alamrcn · August 22, 2008, 03:25:30 PM

Ahhh sooo...
Well, that explains why Vanguard had to make them in the first place, and then re-make them in time for her promotion. Thank goodness they we're ready, but can you imagine the announcement in front of the mess, "You're new ones are on back-order at Vanguard, General." Thank's for the clarification on the blue cloth strips, Mike, never caught that difference - even on my own boards!

I didn't know any cadets to replace the buttons from USAF to CAP on the old service coat. There was such a MINOR difference between the seals on them - just that little triangle - which is probably why National later said we could leave them be. I was very glad that when the Hap Arnold buttons came out on the new uniforms, that we still didn't have to replace them.

-Ace