New AFI 36-2903

[Archer]

So with the new Air Force uniform manual being effected, I'm curious to see how(if at all) the changes to the USAF uniform will influence CAP's iterations of them, especially with the new 39-1 creeping in.

Some of the key changes I noted are:
-Morale patches on flight suit
-Morale shirts
-CIB and others now permitted on all combos
-Army Ranger tabs..... + all other tabs to be worn on the shoulder

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2903/afi36-2903.pdf

[Luis R. Ramos]

Why do we have to be concerned by the AFIs at all? Shouldn't/isn't that the concern of CAP-USAF, the corporate board, and director worry or deal with them?

:angel:

Flyer

[PHall]

It's not a "NEW" AFI 36-2903, just a change to have it reflect the recent uniform policy changes and some administrative house cleaning.

[HGjunkie]

So;

Authorized morale patches for special events
No more phone color restrictions (39-1 draft bans white phones)


Probably the only things that would set some sort of precedence.

[Archer]

What about the Combat Infantry/Action/Medical badges?

[PHall]

What about the Combat Infantry/Action/Medical badges?

RTFM, you tell us.

[Archer]

What about the Combat Infantry/Action/Medical badges?

RTFM, you tell us.

Oh, no I meant why does he think those other things will set a precedent, but not the authorization of CIB's and such on USAF uniforms.

[HGjunkie]

Speaking as a cadet, those two were the only things I cared about.

[abdsp51]

Speaking as a cadet, those two were the only things I cared about.

Doesn't apply to CAP and I don't think IMHO that any of these will be included in 39-1.

[Eclipse]

No more phone color restrictions (39-1 draft bans white phones)

Nice try.

[HGjunkie]

No more phone color restrictions (39-1 draft bans white phones)

Nice try.

Huh?

[Eclipse]

No more phone color restrictions (39-1 draft bans white phones)

Nice try.

Huh?

OMG, I just re-read this.

6.3.1.3 Handheld Electronic Devices. Handheld electronic devices are small electronic
equipment such as cellular phones (personal or official), MP3 or similar players, radio, or
hands-free devices (e.g. Bluetooth). Handheld electronic devices will be plain black,
silver, dark blue, or gray. Holster and other storage devices used to carry handheld
electronic devices will be plain black, silver, dark blue, or gray. One handheld electronic
device may be attached to a belt/waistband on either side, clipped to a purse, or carried in
the left hand.

1/2 the phones on this planet are white. 

Now, granted, adults wishing to procreate shouldn't have >ANYTHING< hanging on their belt,
especially a white cell phone, but seriously, how is this enforceable?  I can see the holster,
but the phone?

I thought you were trying for a "made you look" kinda deal.

[HGjunkie]

Oh god I thought you were trying to mess with me. My friend has a white phone and as soon as I told him that, he kinda... turned white.

I've never seen people use a non-black holster though, that's kinda odd.

[Eclipse]

I've seen all manner of sparkly nonsense, but NHQ can't seriously believe people are going to not buy the latest
Gold iWhatever just because of 39-1.

[a2capt]

Other than the dollar store .. I've never seen any off the wall colors for phone holsters/clips.
..probably why they end up at the dollar store.

[LSThiker]

No worries.  I will just put a black case on my white iPhone and see who argues with me   I did put a comment about that in the reviews.  We will see what happens.  In all honesty, does not bother me.  I never liked having a phone "holster" on my hip. 

[Mustang]

8.3.6. Morale Patches and Tabs. Wing Commanders may authorize the wear of morale patches on the shoulders of the FDU on Fridays, or during special events. Small morale tabs may be worn on the exposed Velcro of the left sleeve when the pen pocket cover is removed; wear is not restricted. Squadron Commanders will approve and maintain a list of acceptable morale patches and tabs for wear by assigned Airmen.

Interesting. So wear of pencil pocket patches is now allowed, and not subject to the Friday/special event limitation.

Glad to see the AF still understands the concept of morale; CAP forgot what it means long ago.

[PHall]

8.3.6. Morale Patches and Tabs. Wing Commanders may authorize the wear of morale patches on the shoulders of the FDU on Fridays, or during special events. Small morale tabs may be worn on the exposed Velcro of the left sleeve when the pen pocket cover is removed; wear is not restricted. Squadron Commanders will approve and maintain a list of acceptable morale patches and tabs for wear by assigned Airmen.

Interesting. So wear of pencil pocket patches is now allowed, and not subject to the Friday/special event limitation.

Glad to see the AF still understands the concept of morale; CAP forgot what it means long ago.

The morale patch ban was widely ignored.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Was there ever any movement on the belted "Heritage" uniform of a few years ago?

I mean this:



not the quasi-Marine/Imperial kit:



I liked the first one, much better than the "business suit" we have now.

[Eclipse]

Scrapped when the new CSAF came in.

[Panache]

You owe me a new keyboard, CyBorg, to replace the one I just spit iced tea all over...

[a2capt]

<These aren't the uniforms you're looking to wear.>

These aren't the uniforms we're looking to wear.

<He can go on about his manual analyzing.>

You can go about your manual analyzing.

<Next thread>

Next thread... next thread.

[Mustang]

Except for the fact that the new CSAF wore that banded collar WWI-style jacket when he was sworn in as CSAF.

[MSG Mac]

Except for the fact that the new CSAF wore that banded collar WWI-style jacket when he was sworn in as CSAF.

The outgoing officer sets the rules for the ceremony.

[flyboy53]

I was impressed with how thorough the current change is and the fact that the Air Force has gone to a informal polo shirt uniform.

Although I had seen the thing about US military societies before, I wonder if this means that the Air Force, hence the CAP, now recognizes the SGAUS MEMS program and badges.

Guess that's a NHQ question.

[NIN]

AFUB put the kibosh on all that in 2009. Along with the flag.

http://soldiersystems.net/air-force-uniform-board-results-2009/

[Eclipse]

Yep. Not the one seen wearing the fancy custom workup.

[abdsp51]

The AF suspended alot of programs to include uniform changes until things straightened out.  And they will usually incorporate changes every couple of years too. 

[Shuman 14]

So with the new Air Force uniform manual being effected, I'm curious to see how(if at all) the changes to the USAF uniform will influence CAP's iterations of them, especially with the new 39-1 creeping in.

Some of the key changes I noted are:
-Morale patches on flight suit
-Morale shirts
-CIB and others now permitted on all combos
-Army Ranger tabs..... + all other tabs to be worn on the shoulder

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2903/afi36-2903.pdf

It is something that makes you go... Hmmm... Isn't it?

[Shuman 14]

I was impressed with how thorough the current change is and the fact that the Air Force has gone to a informal polo shirt uniform.

Although I had seen the thing about US military societies before, I wonder if this means that the Air Force, hence the CAP, now recognizes the SGAUS MEMS program and badges.

Guess that's a NHQ question.

The Instruction seemed pretty clear to me, if you're attending a societies' (i.e. SGAUS) meeting, you can wear their awards and badges (i.e. MEMS Badge) to the meeting.

Once the meeting is over they come off.

So unless you are attending the SGAUS Annual Conference, that will most likely be the only time you will get to wear a MEMS Badge on a USAF or CAP USAF-style uniform.

Just as an FYI, I am a Life Member of SGAUS and have been awarded a Basic MEMS Badge.

[abdsp51]

I was impressed with how thorough the current change is and the fact that the Air Force has gone to a informal polo shirt uniform.

Although I had seen the thing about US military societies before, I wonder if this means that the Air Force, hence the CAP, now recognizes the SGAUS MEMS program and badges.

Guess that's a NHQ question.

The Instruction seemed pretty clear to me, if you're attending a societies' (i.e. SGAUS) meeting, you can wear their awards and badges (i.e. MEMS Badge) to the meeting.

Once the meeting is over they come off.

So unless you are attending the SGAUS Annual Conference, that will most likely be the only time you will get to wear a MEMS Badge on a USAF or CAP USAF-style uniform.

Just as an FYI, I am a Life Member of SGAUS and have been awarded a Basic MEMS Badge.

You do know this doesn't apply to CAP right?

[Shuman 14]

I was impressed with how thorough the current change is and the fact that the Air Force has gone to a informal polo shirt uniform.

Although I had seen the thing about US military societies before, I wonder if this means that the Air Force, hence the CAP, now recognizes the SGAUS MEMS program and badges.

Guess that's a NHQ question.

The Instruction seemed pretty clear to me, if you're attending a societies' (i.e. SGAUS) meeting, you can wear their awards and badges (i.e. MEMS Badge) to the meeting.

Once the meeting is over they come off.

So unless you are attending the SGAUS Annual Conference, that will most likely be the only time you will get to wear a MEMS Badge on a USAF or CAP USAF-style uniform.

Just as an FYI, I am a Life Member of SGAUS and have been awarded a Basic MEMS Badge.

You do know this doesn't apply to CAP right?

I thought the whole purpose of the new "draft" CAPM 39-1 was to bring it "more in line with" the actual Air Force Instruction? 

That being said, did you not notice my caveat most likely be?  Notice I did not say may or can. 

[abdsp51]

Oh I read it and your insinuating CAP will follow suit.  Sorry that's bad business to wait to publish an overdue reg because ma blue has revised its own reg. 

[Shuman 14]

Oh I read it and your insinuating CAP will follow suit.  Sorry that's bad business to wait to publish an overdue reg because ma blue has revised its own reg.

Can't say I disagree with you, the draft needs to be re-written in incorporate the changes in the actual Instruction before they actually publish it.

[Eclipse]

Can't say I disagree with you, the draft needs to be re-written in incorporate the changes in the actual Instruction before they actually publish it.

No, it doesn't.

There are dozens of areas where CAP uniforms are different then USAF uniforms.

39-1 was re-formatted to more closely resemble 36-2903 instructure.  That's as close as it gets.

[NIN]

And just when we say the Air Force isn't making more changes:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140120/NEWS07/301200029?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I can see the Duffelblog article now "More than 200 Army Sergeants Major were stricken with apoplexy following the Air Force's relaxing of the rules around PT belts.  Several airmen were also knifehanded to unconsciousness before the word got out to the Army E-9s that PT belts were, in fact, no longer required for some service members in their areas. "

[Eclipse]

And just when we say the Air Force isn't making more changes:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140120/NEWS07/301200029?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I can see the Duffelblog article now "More than 200 Army Sergeants Major were stricken with apoplexy following the Air Force's relaxing of the rules around PT belts.  Several airmen were also knifehanded to unconsciousness before the word got out to the Army E-9s that PT belts were, in fact, no longer required for some service members in their areas. "

Is that a camo reflective belt?  Won't that rip a hole in space-time?  Also, why are they wearing them like crossing guards?

[ol'fido]

The way to go would be to make the PT belt the carrying strap for a man bag or something like a Maxpedition Versipac.

[coudano]

the cross chest is (er, was?) autho

incidentally, the af pt uniform is quite reflective all by itself (as pictured)

[abdsp51]

That's only for the AOR and a result of the Army griping bout AF not playing by their rules. 

[Garp]

How does the MEMS program relate to this language from the AFI?  "Badges of military societies of the U.S. that honors wars, campaigns or expeditions in which the U.S. was engaged."

[sarmed1]

That's only for the AOR and a result of the Army griping bout AF not playing by their rules.

I remember when " 3 sets conservative civilian clothing" was part of my mobility bag contents......then I remember it coming out because as we were told the " host" bases were upset because it wasn't fair that their soldiers/ marines/sailors could only wear pt's off duty while the AF could wear civies....it was bad for their morale....

MK

[PHall]

Is that a camo reflective belt?  Won't that rip a hole in space-time?  Also, why are they wearing them like crossing guards?

It's still reflective and fulfills it's function during low light conditions.  The over the shoulder thing is "supposed" to be safer, at least that's Safety's story.

[LSThiker]

"The increased wear of the ABU in-garrison, coupled with airmen's long-term desires to wear the qualification badges and the command insignia they have earned, makes authorized wear on the ABU a logical step," Lt. Gen. Sam Cox, Air Force deputy chief of staff for manpower, personnel and services, said in the release

Well I guess it will be harder to complain when seniors want to wear a specialty track badge on the BDUs.  From the sounds of it, even the USAF has the same "bling crazy" adults that CAP has.

Is that a camo reflective belt?  Won't that rip a hole in space-time?  Also, why are they wearing them like crossing guards?

It's still reflective and fulfills it's function during low light conditions.  The over the shoulder thing is "supposed" to be safer, at least that's Safety's story.

It is safer.  After PT or even during PT, our shirts would be loose (still tuck in but more bloused appearance).  The shirt would then cover the PT belt.  Do not know how many times I would get stopped and asked where my belt was.

I just never understood the amount of money put into making the Army IPFU reflective to include the "ACU pattern" on the new jackets and we are still required to wear reflective belts. 

[Eclipse]

^ And that reflective material ain't cheap. 

We looked into doing t-shirts with retro-reflective silver instead of white and
it would have nearly doubled the cost of the shirt.

The Navy has similar issues.  For years it was "nothing", which frankly is a little
dangerous - black P-Coats and trench coats or even Cracker Jacks on dimly lit streets,
etc.

Then it was arm bands for a couple of years, then it was all hands with the belt,
I think it's back to only the guidon bearers, or Division leads wearing them.

Of course road guards are in orange vest.

[LSThiker]

^ And that reflective material ain't cheap. 

We looked into doing t-shirts with retro-reflective silver instead of white and
it would have nearly doubled the cost of the shirt.

Did the same thing for my squadron.  Yeah, the option was nixed the instant I saw the $25 to $30 price tag per shirt. 

[PHall]

^ And that reflective material ain't cheap. 

We looked into doing t-shirts with retro-reflective silver instead of white and
it would have nearly doubled the cost of the shirt.

Did the same thing for my squadron.  Yeah, the option was nixed the instant I saw the $25 to $30 price tag per shirt.

The Air Force PT shirt has reflective lettering/logos on it and they're under $10 each.

[Eclipse]

The Air Force PT shirt has reflective lettering/logos on it and they're under $10 each.

Volume, volume, volume.

[LSThiker]

The Air Force PT shirt has reflective lettering/logos on it and they're under $10 each.

Yeah, except the Air Force and the Army have a better bargaining chip compared to my CAP squadron.  Plus they can shop nationwide while we were using local screen printing shops.

[a2capt]

..and if you give those to the local shop, many a times they will balk and tell you the price is the same as if you bought a shirt from them - and you didn't.

So.. ;-)

[LSThiker]

..and if you give those to the local shop, many a times they will balk and tell you the price is the same as if you bought a shirt from them - and you didn't.

So.. ;-)

I am confused on what you are saying.  However, if I understand you correctly, you are stating to give the prices of the USAF/USA shirts to the printers and they will sell them for $10?  Am I correct?  If so, no I already had a similar conversation.  However, they may have jacked the prices up for the essentially anti-military town I was living in at the time.  Essentially the conversation boiled down to:  the volume (100 shirts I think) does not equate to a good reduction in price.

[a2capt]

No, I'm saying to try and provide your own shirts to a screen printer.

A great majority of them are allergic to that. It causes them to expose their costs, so rather than do that they say "you pay us the same as if we sold you -our- shirt" .. so why would you want to supply them then? Certainly not because your going to save money.

[LSThiker]

No, I'm saying to try and provide your own shirts to a screen printer.

A great majority of them are allergic to that. It causes them to expose their costs, so rather than do that they say "you pay us the same as if we sold you -our- shirt" .. so why would you want to supply them then? Certainly not because your going to save money.

Ah makes more sense.  Yeah, never had that work out for me.

[AlphaSigOU]

And I betcha the military prices are already at rock bottom... it they are DSCP (Defense Supply Center Philadelphia) items, chances are they were made by UNICOR - aka Federal Prison Industries.

[UH60guy]

And quality control ain't great. I've had fellow Soldiers get issued uniform tops with two left sleeves on two separate occasions. To clarify, that isn't two arms on one side (that would be awesome though) but the arm with pockets and seams alignment of a left arm but on the right. You get what you pay (or don't pay) for.

[a2capt]

No, that was just a mis-shipped item that was meant to go for the secret Chernobyl duty.

[Shuman 14]

Is that a camo reflective belt?  Won't that rip a hole in space-time?  Also, why are they wearing them like crossing guards?

It's still reflective and fulfills it's function during low light conditions.  The over the shoulder thing is "supposed" to be safer, at least that's Safety's story.

I remember when some posts actually had command regulations posted on how the belt was suppose to be worn. Part of it was identify rank class on the wearer as the Army PT uniform has no rank on it. A common set up was:

Officers and Warrant Officers - belt worn right shoulder to left hip (i.e. sword belt on a Sam Brown)

NCOs (CPL thru CSM) - belt worn left shoulder to right hip

EMs (SPC and below) - belt worn around the waist.

[LSThiker]

Do not forget the blue for officer and yellow for enlisted setup as well. Although I think 1st Cav still does this. I had a senior NCO yell at me because I did not salute a warrant officer. He thought I was enlisted since I did not have a blue belt on.

[Luis R. Ramos]

That translated into New York Wing's 2013 Encampment as senior members had to wear yellow belts and cadets green...



Flyer

[Luis R. Ramos]

A2-

Are those the new generation of Tabi shoes?

Flyer

[a2capt]

Tabi Extreme Edition. No pronation vs supination arguments. That's a firm plant.

[aviator9417]

This might not affect CAP but it certainly affects me as an AFROTC cadet.  Now I can wear ANY color running shoes I want at PT, and black socks for PT!  The other stuff in the new AFI doesn't really effect me atm in ROTC.

[abdsp51]

Shame they didnt ditch the pt shirt tucked in during pt activity...

[PHall]

This might not affect CAP but it certainly affects me as an AFROTC cadet.  Now I can wear ANY color running shoes I want at PT, and black socks for PT!  The other stuff in the new AFI doesn't really effect me atm in ROTC.

Ah, but what does the AFROTC Sup and maybe your Det Sup say?

If your Det Commander wants everybody in the same shoes....

[MSG Mac]

Does the Air Force provide the shoes? If not, the Detachment Commander may have some leeway in allowing you to wear your own running shoes.

[Tim Medeiros]

One thing that I noticed was the requirement for commanders to wear the cloth command pin in ABUs now.  Something that was just written into our draft (for BDUs in our case of course) before this came out....  smells like someone got some info before release of the AFI.

[vento]

From the  Air Force Magazine dated 22 Jan 2014

Hey Spike, It's Friday!
Morale is back—at least on Fridays—thanks to new uniform policy changes published by the Air Force this week in response to airmen's feedback over the past few years. "The policy changes revolve around ...heritage, team building, esprit de corps, and unit pride," said Col. Patrick Doherty, director of Air Force services, in a Jan. 17 release. Single color T-shirts with a unit crest, known as "morale patches," and flight suit nickname-badges will now be allowed at unit commander's discretion, provided they are uniform and tasteful, states the release. Additionally, airmen who served with other branches will now be able to wear non-Air Force qualification badges on their ABUs. "The increased wear of the ABU in-garrison" on top of airmen's desire to wear what they've earned "makes authorized wear on the ABU a logical step," said Lt. Gen. Sam Cox, deputy personnel chief. Other updates include reversing a ban on brightly colored running shoes in physical training uniform, and allowing non-black mobile phones in uniform.

And here's the link
http://r.listpilot.net/c/afa/8rvegmp/4ybyw

[NIN]

One thing that I noticed was the requirement for commanders to wear the cloth command pin in ABUs now.  Something that was just written into our draft (for BDUs in our case of course) before this came out....  smells like someone got some info before release of the AFI.

IIRC, the graduated commanders thing was in a change to the AFI. It was just incorporated into this version.

[rugger1869]

Do not forget the blue for officer and yellow for enlisted setup as well. Although I think 1st Cav still does this. I had a senior NCO yell at me because I did not salute a warrant officer. He thought I was enlisted since I did not have a blue belt on.

Wait... we're supposed to salute Warrants? I thought we just high-fived them.

[68w20]

Do not forget the blue for officer and yellow for enlisted setup as well. Although I think 1st Cav still does this. I had a senior NCO yell at me because I did not salute a warrant officer. He thought I was enlisted since I did not have a blue belt on.

Wait... we're supposed to salute Warrants? I thought we just high-fived them.

You salute the rank and high-five the mustache.

[NIN]

You salute the rank and high-five the mustache.

I was told "only salute warrant officers once a day. Its in their union contract. "

[ol'fido]

I know we've moved on from the PT belt issue but....