Epaulet Conversion Kit

[Abby.L]

Just saying, and honestly I think we should redesign the shoulder boards for cadet officers.

The bigger question is why do we still have the Cadet Officer shoulder boards?

Bold's mine. I assume you mean "Why." So, why do we? Well, I like them, personally, aside from the installation issues. They are a tradition, and one that should stay. They look classy, distinct, yet professional. They allow for installation on non-epaulet jackets(Yea, yea...), and epaulet jackets alike. We could pin our officer grade to the epaulets, but then the folks with enlisted jackets have a problem.

[SarDragon]

Just saying, and honestly I think we should redesign the shoulder boards for cadet officers.

The bigger question is who do we still have the Cadet Officer shoulder boards?

Well, they were a big deal when they were introduced. Is there any really good reason to get rid of them after 40+ years?

[Extremepredjudice]

Just saying, and honestly I think we should redesign the shoulder boards for cadet officers.

The bigger question is who do we still have the Cadet Officer shoulder boards?

Well, they were a big deal when they were introduced. Is there any really good reason to get rid of them after 40+ years?

More modern look? Something cheaper?

Or something you don't have to buy a new one once you go from Capt. to major.

[MSG Mac]

Just saying, and honestly I think we should redesign the shoulder boards for cadet officers.

The bigger question is who do we still have the Cadet Officer shoulder boards?

Well, they were a big deal when they were introduced. Is there any really good reason to get rid of them after 40+ years?

$30/each. Is the most expensive item on the cadet uniform. If cadet uniforms had epaulets I would advocate use of the current sleeve that is normally worn on the shirt. Since they don't, I would suggest modifying the current uniform by adding to loops on each shoulder and using an epaulet that has a loop underneath (like the current mess dress boards) to attach it to.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

MSG Mac has a good idea.

I've also thought that SM's should use ROTC shoulder marks with CAP cutouts...we would still have the AF connection but also have the "distinctiveness" so many gripe about.

[ColonelJack]

MSG Mac has a good idea.

I've also thought that SM's should use ROTC shoulder marks with CAP cutouts...we would still have the AF connection but also have the "distinctiveness" so many gripe about.

Agreed on MSgt Mac's idea!

As for SMs and the ROTC marks ... I had thought when the AF ditched the sleeve rank of the McPeak jacket that we should've picked it up.  Talk about distinctive from the AF ... and we would be distinctive from CGAUX too, with the cut of the coat and all.

But did anybody listen to me?  Of course not.

Jack

[PHall]

Just saying, and honestly I think we should redesign the shoulder boards for cadet officers.

The bigger question is who do we still have the Cadet Officer shoulder boards?

Well, they were a big deal when they were introduced. Is there any really good reason to get rid of them after 40+ years?

40 years ago they were worn "everyday". Now you can only wear them on your Service Dress Uniform, if you have one...

[Майор Хаткевич]

Ok, so you go to the slides, and now the cadet needs an Officer new style jacket, or an old style that will fit....

[abdsp51]

Cadets can wear an officers service coat the only drawback it's expensive as heck and used ones are in short supply. I don't mind the shoulder boards but maybe an idea to take a page out of AFJROTC's book and allow them to pin their grade to the lapels?  The only thing about the boards I didn't like was that they were a pain to attach to the coat.

And the sleeve rank scheme McPeak implemented was hideous to the extreme as well as half of his uniform changes, come one leather aircrew patch for everyone and removal of grade from the BDU hideous. 

[ColonelJack]

I think MOST of McPeak's uniform changes bordered on the ludicrous.  As a friend of mine who was a LtCol in the AF Reserve said when the McPeak uniform came out, "I'm retiring.  If I wanted to look like I worked for Delta Airlines, I'd go to work for Delta Airlines."

But that being said - well, that and the fact that McPeak had an answer for a problem that did not exist - I still liked the sleeve stripe insignia for officers for CAP once the AF was done with it.  Distinctive, yes?

Jack

[abdsp51]

Distinctive yes, but too much like the Navy and a commercial pilot and I think a step away from our heritage.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Distinctive yes, but too much like the Navy and a commercial pilot and I think a step away from our heritage.

I remember rumours back in the mid '90s that we were going to get the sleeve rings, except they'd be light blue.

I think it's just here in the U.S. that the "Navy/CG/commercial pilot" thing comes to mind.

Around the world a lot of air forces use sleeve rings/epaulette stripes.


Royal Danish Air Force


Royal Canadian Air Force


Royal Australian Air Force


Romanian Air Force


Belgian Armed Forces/Air Component


Hellenic (Greece) Air Force


Royal Netherlands Air Force


British Royal Air Force

Having said that, if we were to go to sleeve rings (which I did not suggest; I suggested AFROTC shoulder marks), some dim bulb would say "let's make them grey!"

[Major Carrales]

They don't exist anymore.

Once you add tailoring costs.....it would just be cheaper to buy a new service coat.

IMHO cadets officer look better with out the epaulet.  YMMV.

Not so...I have a friendly tailor who "converted" a jacket for me for $25 dollars and did a very professional job.   She is an old friend of the family.  One might have a similar opportunity.

I also had a cadet officer wear the shoulder boards on a jacket (new style) without epaulets, it required some minor alterations to the uniforms, however, the shoulder boards were much more professional looking than one I say where the jacket's epaulets were visible.

[flyboy53]

I think MOST of McPeak's uniform changes bordered on the ludicrous.  As a friend of mine who was a LtCol in the AF Reserve said when the McPeak uniform came out, "I'm retiring.  If I wanted to look like I worked for Delta Airlines, I'd go to work for Delta Airlines."

But that being said - well, that and the fact that McPeak had an answer for a problem that did not exist - I still liked the sleeve stripe insignia for officers for CAP once the AF was done with it.  Distinctive, yes?

Jack

You had to be in the Air Force when all that was going on.

General McPeak was big on image and was doing his best to leave a permanent mark on the Air Force. He had been a Thunderbird and even promoted/expected everyone to follow his dietary regiment that included split pea soup for lunch. He went about pushing that uniform in the same way that a certain ex-national commander did his. Those who got the uniforms were part of a test group or were assigned to the Washington Military District and were purchasing the uniform as a means to show support with the Chief of Staff. So, most people were holding out until the very end of the phase in period before they would buy it. Otherwise, you were trapped if you got promoted or had to purchase sone new uniform item like a tie or a flight cap, because he engineered it that all existing uniform supplies were depleted to make way for the new uniform. As I remember, my experience with the new uniform started with the purchase of a new tie and flight cap. Then, $400 later, I was into a new set of dress blues.

It was depleting all the existing uniform supplies and having contractors re-tool to the new uniform is the reason why we have the current Air Force uniform. Within three to six hours after General Fogleman took command, a twix message was sent to the field advising that the new uniform was on hold. Some time later, a second message went into the field with detailed changes...much of which is still in place today.

...and the McPeak uniform now has the distinction of being the rarest and highly sought uniform for collectors......

[titanII]

I also had a cadet officer wear the shoulder boards on a jacket (new style) without epaulets, it required some minor alterations to the uniforms, however, the shoulder boards were much more professional looking than one I say where the jacket's epaulets were visible.

What alterations had to be done to the new style enlisted service coat to put on the shoulder boards? I'm curious because I have an enlisted service coat, and hope to get my Mitchell (in a while, but still).

[Major Carrales]

I also had a cadet officer wear the shoulder boards on a jacket (new style) without epaulets, it required some minor alterations to the uniforms, however, the shoulder boards were much more professional looking than one I say where the jacket's epaulets were visible.

What alterations had to be done to the new style enlisted service coat to put on the shoulder boards? I'm curious because I have an enlisted service coat, and hope to get my Mitchell (in a while, but still).

I can't remember exactly, however, I am seeing this cadet on Thursday and will examine it in detail, maybe photos.  Please stand by...

[lordmonar]

Tack on some Hook and loop tape.

[Extremepredjudice]

Tack on some Hook and loop tape.

You mean Velcro?

[titanII]

Tack on some Hook and loop tape.

Would you need to do that on both the jacket and the shoulder board, or do the shoulder boards come with velcro on the back?

[lordmonar]

Tack on some Hook and loop tape.

Would you need to do that on both the jacket and the shoulder board, or do the shoulder boards come with velcro on the back?

Sew the fuzzy side to your uniform jacket.....glue the rough side to undersid of the shoulder boards.