;D Wow, anybody see the recent picture on the CAP website for news showing the pilot from NV wing wearing the Blue Golf Shirts with the CAP emblem & his name/aero rating BUT he was wearing denim jeans rather than those medium grey pants. Personally, I see no reason why other pants styles & colors can't be worn with those blue Golf shirts. Personally I kind of like the denim blue jeans idea.. Perhaps NV wing has supplemented the uniform manual. ???
couldn't be a supplement, supplements can only make the regs more restrictive not more lenient
The right way to go is to standardize the pants in some way. Right now "greyish" seems to be the rule and I've seen dozens of intepretations that ensure a big lack of uniformity. I don't think jeans are the way to go though.
you're right they should standardize better than the any shade of grey so long as it's not jeans. It looks horrible when you get 3 or 4 people in the golf shirt and pants combination and they've all got different types of greys on it doesn't look professional or dear I it, "uniform"?
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on August 03, 2007, 06:32:45 PM
you're right they should standardize better than the any shade of grey so long as it's not jeans. It looks horrible when you get 3 or 4 people in the golf shirt and pants combination and they've all got different types of greys on it doesn't look professional or dear I it, "uniform"?
They only look horrible if they have the same blue shirt on. They look
abominable when they each wear a different version of tho polo
and a different style trouser
Quote from: Sgt. Savage on August 03, 2007, 07:04:19 PM
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on August 03, 2007, 06:32:45 PM
you're right they should standardize better than the any shade of grey so long as it's not jeans. It looks horrible when you get 3 or 4 people in the golf shirt and pants combination and they've all got different types of greys on it doesn't look professional or dear I it, "uniform"?
They only look horrible if they have the same blue shirt on. They look abominable when they each wear a different version of tho polo and a different style trouser
rotf,lmao
Volunteer shows a cadet major with insignia facing the wrong way... :(
Quote from: JC004 on August 03, 2007, 07:11:22 PM
Volunteer shows a cadet major with insignia facing the wrong way... :(
????
How do you get a pair of diamonds backward?
90 deg off?
That's about like the cadet on the national website with a green vest on.
Quote from: Sgt. Savage on August 03, 2007, 07:22:57 PM
Quote from: JC004 on August 03, 2007, 07:11:22 PM
Volunteer shows a cadet major with insignia facing the wrong way... :(
????
How do you get a pair of diamonds backward?
Page 42.
Cadet Majors only wear 1 diamond...
I hate the golf shirt uniform. What I hate most about it are the pants. In real life I rarely ever wear anything other than jeans. The polyester dockers that are required feel - weird. My wallet bulges out and I have to keep my car keys in a front pocket. Hate those pants when I am flying. Hate em hate em hate em. That is why I got the BBDU for gound work and the flightsuit for airborne.
The only requirement for the pants is that they are grey and not jeans.
Quote from: CAPM 39-1, table 4-1, item 4Commercial dress trousers of medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or
similar commercial blend, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats,
with or without cuffs. (No jeans or causal trousers made of cotton or twill
fabric.) Front of trouser legs rests on the front of shoe or boot. No bunching
at waist or sagging at seat. Trousers must be worn at natural waist.
[bold = most recent change text]
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on August 03, 2007, 07:54:03 PM
The only requirement for the pants is that they are grey and not jeans.
Ioops
Quote from: Al Sayre on August 03, 2007, 07:44:37 PM
Cadet Majors only wear 1 diamond...
I was picturing BDUs in my head. I could see messing one up but not both. Saw the picture though. Impressive...
Stuff happens.
The first time I put RR tracks on my new BDUs, I didn't look at the 39-1 pic first, and got them 90° off. The folks at the squadron got a good laugh over it. Some months later, our (Mitchell cadet) Dep Cdr for Cadets did exactly the same thing on her new BDU shirt. She was much less understanding of the humour of the situation. (What a tight-[FPOC]!)
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 03, 2007, 05:47:51 PM
;D Wow, anybody see the recent picture on the CAP website for news showing the pilot from NV wing wearing the Blue Golf Shirts with the CAP emblem & his name/aero rating BUT he was wearing denim jeans rather than those medium grey pants. Personally, I see no reason why other pants styles & colors can't be worn with those blue Golf shirts. Personally I kind of like the denim blue jeans idea.. Perhaps NV wing has supplemented the uniform manual. ???
When you put the kibosh on PAWG and CAWG then you can come complain about some old timer wearing his blue jeans. At least he had his CAP polo on.
Quote from: lordmonar on August 04, 2007, 05:16:31 AM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 03, 2007, 05:47:51 PM
;D Wow, anybody see the recent picture on the CAP website for news showing the pilot from NV wing wearing the Blue Golf Shirts with the CAP emblem & his name/aero rating BUT he was wearing denim jeans rather than those medium grey pants. Personally, I see no reason why other pants styles & colors can't be worn with those blue Golf shirts. Personally I kind of like the denim blue jeans idea.. Perhaps NV wing has supplemented the uniform manual. ???
When you put the kibosh on PAWG and CAWG then you can come complain about some old timer wearing his blue jeans. At least he had his CAP polo on.
Don't destroy my wing. I need something to conquer.
Quote from: JC004 on August 04, 2007, 05:23:21 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on August 04, 2007, 05:16:31 AM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 03, 2007, 05:47:51 PM
;D Wow, anybody see the recent picture on the CAP website for news showing the pilot from NV wing wearing the Blue Golf Shirts with the CAP emblem & his name/aero rating BUT he was wearing denim jeans rather than those medium grey pants. Personally, I see no reason why other pants styles & colors can't be worn with those blue Golf shirts. Personally I kind of like the denim blue jeans idea.. Perhaps NV wing has supplemented the uniform manual. ???
When you put the kibosh on PAWG and CAWG then you can come complain about some old timer wearing his blue jeans. At least he had his CAP polo on.
Don't destroy my wing. I need something to conquer.
^^ And I need to
invade, I mean
take over, opps, join ;D
Quote from: RogueLeader on August 04, 2007, 05:25:22 AM
Quote from: JC004 on August 04, 2007, 05:23:21 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on August 04, 2007, 05:16:31 AM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 03, 2007, 05:47:51 PM
;D Wow, anybody see the recent picture on the CAP website for news showing the pilot from NV wing wearing the Blue Golf Shirts with the CAP emblem & his name/aero rating BUT he was wearing denim jeans rather than those medium grey pants. Personally, I see no reason why other pants styles & colors can't be worn with those blue Golf shirts. Personally I kind of like the denim blue jeans idea.. Perhaps NV wing has supplemented the uniform manual. ???
When you put the kibosh on PAWG and CAWG then you can come complain about some old timer wearing his blue jeans. At least he had his CAP polo on.
Don't destroy my wing. I need something to conquer.
^^ And I need to invade, I mean take over, opps, join ;D
...and after I arm the wing, we are convoying to VA for a discussion with Vanguard >:D
Quote from: JC004 on August 04, 2007, 05:29:35 AM
Quote from: RogueLeader on August 04, 2007, 05:25:22 AM
Quote from: JC004 on August 04, 2007, 05:23:21 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on August 04, 2007, 05:16:31 AM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 03, 2007, 05:47:51 PM
;D Wow, anybody see the recent picture on the CAP website for news showing the pilot from NV wing wearing the Blue Golf Shirts with the CAP emblem & his name/aero rating BUT he was wearing denim jeans rather than those medium grey pants. Personally, I see no reason why other pants styles & colors can't be worn with those blue Golf shirts. Personally I kind of like the denim blue jeans idea.. Perhaps NV wing has supplemented the uniform manual. ???
When you put the kibosh on PAWG and CAWG then you can come complain about some old timer wearing his blue jeans. At least he had his CAP polo on.
Don't destroy my wing. I need something to conquer.
^^ And I need to invade, I mean take over, opps, join ;D
...and after I arm the wing, we are convoying to VA for a discussion with Vanguard >:D
Then we are going to "tour" Maxwell AFB, shortly after discussing Prostitution in NV as a fund raiser.
Folks just can't "get casual" without looking like a slob, I guess. What's next? Oversized pants and a backward hat? ;)
Must look very professional...maybe I can wear a my golf shirt with my "Tom and Jerry" PJs.
As you can tell, I am no fan of the Golf Shirt.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 04, 2007, 05:38:34 AM
Folks just can't "get casual" without looking like a slob, I guess. What's next? Oversized pants and a backward hat? ;)
Must look very professional...maybe I can wear a my golf shirt with my "Tom and Jerry" PJs.
As you can tell, I am no fan of the Golf Shirt.
Really, :o I hadn't noticed. ;)
National Hq should not have allowed a photo of an unauthorized uniform combination to be published in the Volunteer Magazine in the first place.
Quote
...and after I arm the wing, we are convoying to VA for a discussion with Vanguard >:D
Good I like the idea of a shotgun divorce!
Really... ;) I avoid the things in my own wear...also, a Tee Shirt is underwear. I would say my normal dress is 95% button shirts. It's not "painful" to wear them.
Quote from: Grumpy on August 04, 2007, 05:44:17 AM
National Hq should not have allowed a photo of an unauthorized uniform combination to be published in the Volunteer Magazine in the first place.
Public Affairs at NHQ used to really have a reputation for catching these sorts of things, but they really seemed to have slipped the last few years.
I wonder what happened when the wing commander saw the picture? Maybe nothing or possibly uniform counseling. Any uniform can be worn improperly if permitted, heck I've seen people wearing BDU's and flight suits with tennis shoes, talk about standing out. Yes there was a counseling session on the spot. I like the golf shirt and slacks because it's easy to put on and comfortable in the heat of summer.
Everyone in a Nomex flight suit has my admiration in August when the temps and humidity go crazy.
The answer is knowledgeable enforcement of the regulations as written. Of course that means the people in charge have to know what the rules are. That's another discussion string.
Quote from: RiverAux on August 04, 2007, 02:25:05 PM
Quote from: Grumpy on August 04, 2007, 05:44:17 AM
National Hq should not have allowed a photo of an unauthorized uniform combination to be published in the Volunteer Magazine in the first place.
Public Affairs at NHQ used to really have a reputation for catching these sorts of things, but they really seemed to have slipped the last few years.
No...really! Remember the Chaplains in the ACUs? A few years ago I submitted some photos of my cadets doing a flag ceremony and everyone of them got axed because none of the cadets were in 100% correct uniforms. Some where wearing Gortex, some did no have wing patches on, and one did not have a white on blue name tape.
But on the other side of the proverbial coin. It is better to get faces and name in the paper than to insure that everyone is 100% correct in uniform.
This is an example of "the continually slidding line." If people can't wear service dress correctly, we created a golf shirt combo with grey pants...no jeans. So then someone wears jeans. So then they allow jeans, but in a good condition...not faded and no tears. Then someone wears them faded...so we draw the line again.
I always considered the golf shirt as a recreational uniform...and I use the term uniform lightly. I wouldn't want to see one on a mission.
I've started seeing it more at mission bases. Usually worn by pilots and aircrew who are not in flight positions, i.e. AOBD, brief/debrief, safety, etc. It is good for that because it makes it a little easier to determine which flying types should be in the back of the mission base and which should be in the staging areas. Plus, it provides a - dare I say it - UNIFORM appearance for the staff.
The Polo shirt was a popular option for the ICS/MBC guys at NESA.
It's also a good combination for those who go to their squadron meetings straight from work easier to change into. Sometimes it's as easy as changing your shirt.
Also for any non-air crew members it's a great flying uniform in the summer when it gets very hot in that cabin.
I wear the golf shirt and polo shirt combos occassionally. I think I look mighty dapper in them. I think they present a professional appearance to people who don't understand the whole 'military' thing and makes you a little more approachable in those situations.
However, I do think that many people miss the intent of the uniform.
When I wear mine, I wear the Polo Shirt w/ Observer Wings, a plain black leather belt with open style silver buckle, charcoal grey dress slacks-no pleats, black un-patterned dress socks, and black leather shoes (http://www.florsheim.com/flstore/style.do?cID=10448).
Personally, I don't think that light grey looks all that good with the polos or grey/white and I don't think that cargo pants are appropriate either. Honestly, I think they should pick a style and shade, make them available through vanguard and call it a day.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on August 06, 2007, 03:53:38 PM
Honestly, I think they should pick a style and shade, make them available through vanguard and call it a day.
Now that would be too easy. Much better to leave it vague and we all fend for ourselves.
Quote
When you put the kibosh on PAWG and CAWG then you can come complain about some old timer wearing his blue jeans. At least he had his CAP polo on.
Don't destroy my wing. I need something to conquer.
You really want
Scranton ?
Dude, Dramamine is your friend ...
Quote from: flyerthom on August 06, 2007, 08:36:13 PM
Quote
When you put the kibosh on PAWG and CAWG then you can come complain about some old timer wearing his blue jeans. At least he had his CAP polo on.
Don't destroy my wing. I need something to conquer.
You really want Scranton ?
Dude, Dramamine is your friend ...
Some portions of the wing will be auctioned off after my take-over. I've been planning this all out since I was a cadidiot.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 04, 2007, 05:38:34 AM
Folks just can't "get casual" without looking like a slob, I guess. What's next? Oversized pants and a backward hat? ;)
As you can tell, I am no fan of the Golf Shirt.
Somewhere out there right now is a cadet - on you tube-
CAP RAPPER!Boom ba boom ba boom...
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 05, 2007, 04:46:18 PM
This is an example of "the continually slidding line."
First we allow minor mis-spellings. Next thing you know, whole words are missing or typed out in text- and leet-speak. End result is that Cyrillic is acceptable on here.
Gene, I'm gonna pirate that, with your permission, to use in my role as Grammar Cop.
Quote from: arajca on August 05, 2007, 06:11:34 PM
I've started seeing it more at mission bases. Usually worn by pilots and aircrew who are not in flight positions, i.e. AOBD, brief/debrief, safety, etc. It is good for that because it makes it a little easier to determine which flying types should be in the back of the mission base and which should be in the staging areas. Plus, it provides a - dare I say it - UNIFORM appearance for the staff.
Most of the time I wear the blue AF style service dress, AF style BDU's or a flight suit depending upon the occasion. I wear them all correctly and with the respect they deserve. However, I'll have to say that I like the golf shirt in the summer, even for flying, because it is MUCH cooler. (Purists, don't bother telling me about the hazards of not wearing nomax, I've understand the argument, I just don't think it's warrented in a Cessna.) I also think the the grey BDU's ought to be authorized to wear with the golf shirt in cases where BDU's or a flight suit is also appropriate.
Quote from: ELTHunter on August 07, 2007, 12:11:09 AM
the grey BDU's ought to be authorized to wear with the golf shirt
Grey BDU's? ??? What do they look like? Never seen them before.
Quote from: RogueLeader on August 07, 2007, 03:47:06 AM
Quote from: ELTHunter on August 07, 2007, 12:11:09 AM
the grey BDU's ought to be authorized to wear with the golf shirt
Grey BDU's? ??? What do they look like? Never seen them before.
grey BDU pants...I think Old Lincoln County sells them and markets them specifically for CAP wear
Quote from: JC004 on August 07, 2007, 03:50:28 AM
Quote from: RogueLeader on August 07, 2007, 03:47:06 AM
Quote from: ELTHunter on August 07, 2007, 12:11:09 AM
the grey BDU's ought to be authorized to wear with the golf shirt
Grey BDU's? ??? What do they look like? Never seen them before.
grey BDU pants...I think Old Lincoln County sells them and markets them specifically for CAP wear
How, they aren't even authorized for CAP.
So, it's been said before, but...the golf shirt is often the appropriate uniform for inter-agency meetings/events where all the other agencies are wearing embroidered polo shirts.
And, would you believe, a squadron commander drove cadets to Encampment this year wearing the golf shirt with torn, raggedy jean-cutoff-shorts and flip-flops!!!!?? Some folks really don't get it. >:(
Yes, I wear AF-style uniforms 95% of the time. But I wear the golf shirt combo too, especially when meeting with other agencies. It's all about presenting a professional image, as has been said ad nauseum. Often HOW you wear your uniform is more important than which uniform you choose to wear.
I think the thing that puzzles me the most about the golf shirt is that it requires grey pants with it. Most places that wear that style of shirt wear khaki pants with it. It's always made me wonder.
We're not supposed to understand it. It's like when you take medicine to get better and it has side effects. You take this stuff to get better but it makes you sick another way.
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on August 07, 2007, 08:20:13 PM
We're not supposed to understand it.
True. I don't wear it any way, so it's really a moot point to me.
I wonder how some of the folks who are so against the golf shirt combo would react to the following:
At an event the director states, "In the interest of maintaining a uniform appearance, the uniform for the activity will be the golf shirt combination."
Not that we can ever seem to get uniformity anyway, but I think it's an interesting question.
He would have just as much luck as anyone else who tries to enforce the wear of a specific uniform by seniors -- some will not have that uniform and will wear something else. There is no "basic" uniform that every adult CAP member must have that could practically be used when total uniformity is desired.
Quote from: davedove on August 07, 2007, 08:26:21 PM
I wonder how some of the folks who are so against the golf shirt combo would react to the following:
At an event the director states, "In the interest of maintaining a uniform appearance, the uniform for the activity will be the golf shirt combination."
Not that we can ever seem to get uniformity anyway, but I think it's an interesting question.
I guess I'd be going home. I don't even have one. Don't have any grey pants either. All my stuff is khaki.
Quote from: RiverAux on August 07, 2007, 08:46:01 PM
There is no "basic" uniform that every adult CAP member must have that could practically be used when total uniformity is desired.
Actually, there is:
CAPM 39-1 23 MARCH 2005
1-5. Uniform Combinations.
Members will equip themselves with the basic uniform.
The minimum basic uniforms for male and female cadets and senior members, which will satisfy most occasions, are listed below.a.
Minimum Basic Service Uniform. Male: Short-sleeve, light blue shirt; dark blue trousers; blue
belt/silver buckle, blue flight cap; black shoes, and socks. Insignia: CAP nameplate, shoulder patch,
collar/lapel insignia, embroidered epaulet sleeve, and flight cap emblem. Female: Short-sleeve light
blue blouse; Dark blue skirt or slacks; flight cap; neutral nylon hose; black shoes; black handbag.
Insignia: CAP nameplate, shoulder patch, collar/lapel insignia, embroidered epaulet sleeve, and flight
cap emblem.
b.
CAP Distinctive Basic Uniform (senior members only). Male: Short-sleeve, white aviator shirt;
gray trousers; black belt; black shoes and socks. Insignia: CAP nameplate, embroidered epaulet sleeve.
Female: Short-sleeve, white aviator shirt; gray slacks or skirt; plain black shoes. Insignia: CAP
nameplate, embroidered epaulet sleeve.
Quote from: Fifinella on August 08, 2007, 03:28:05 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on August 07, 2007, 08:46:01 PM
There is no "basic" uniform that every adult CAP member must have that could practically be used when total uniformity is desired.
Actually, there is:
CAPM 39-1 23 MARCH 2005
1-5. Uniform Combinations.
Members will equip themselves with the basic uniform. The minimum basic uniforms for male and female cadets and senior members, which will satisfy most occasions, are listed below.
a. Minimum Basic Service Uniform. Male: Short-sleeve, light blue shirt; dark blue trousers; blue
belt/silver buckle, blue flight cap; black shoes, and socks. Insignia: CAP nameplate, shoulder patch,
collar/lapel insignia, embroidered epaulet sleeve, and flight cap emblem. Female: Short-sleeve light
blue blouse; Dark blue skirt or slacks; flight cap; neutral nylon hose; black shoes; black handbag.
Insignia: CAP nameplate, shoulder patch, collar/lapel insignia, embroidered epaulet sleeve, and flight
cap emblem.
b. CAP Distinctive Basic Uniform (senior members only). Male: Short-sleeve, white aviator shirt;
gray trousers; black belt; black shoes and socks. Insignia: CAP nameplate, embroidered epaulet sleeve.
Female: Short-sleeve, white aviator shirt; gray slacks or skirt; plain black shoes. Insignia: CAP
nameplate, embroidered epaulet sleeve.
But even so you are still liable to have two distinctly seperate uniforms - the AF Blue and the Corporate.
And that is the point the is no Single SHIRT and Single PANT that EVERYONE - skinny, shaved, fat, fuzzy - has in their closet.
True.
Hmmm, anyone care to bet how many senior members don't meet the minimum requirement? We might need to advertise that just a bit more....