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Losing the Auxiliary Name

Started by captrncap, May 19, 2006, 12:47:56 PM

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captrncap

I just want to point out that all the Air Force seems to be removing their name (US Air Force Auxiliary) from all of our CAP related identifications such as the new ID cards and flight patches.

If the AF thinks so highly of us because of the recent events (Katrina, etc.), why would they disassociate themselves from us?

Also, if they are doing this, why do we need to get their permission so often for so many things?

I understand that we only "Auxiliary" when we perform AF missions. Why bother being "Auxiliary" at all? Wouldn't it be better to act as a consultant to the AF when they need us? maybe even a DOD civilian agency?

Isn't the military supposed to provide support to youth groups (our cadets) because they are directed to and it doesn't matter if they are CAP or another agency?

mikeylikey

Speak to your Senator and Representative in Washington.  Write a letter, call them up, stop for a visit.  Let them know what you think, and express your dissatisfaction with the situation.

I do agree with you, in the past 30 years, the AF has slowly moved CAP away as it's "official auxiliary".  I have been picking up the rumor that DHS has their eyes on CAP, and may extend an invitation to become a "volunteer" part of their family.  DHS and its subordinate agencies are moving forward on becoming the eighth uniformed service in the US.  It would be a great move to align the organization under DHS, only if the whole rumor were true though.
What's up monkeys?

captrncap

Quote from: mikeylikey on May 19, 2006, 01:51:29 PM
Speak to your Senator and Representative in Washington.  Write a letter, call them up, stop for a visit.  Let them know what you think, and express your dissatisfaction with the situation.

Since I am not writer, would anyone like to volunteer and draft a letter to Congress? CAP Members could then print, sign and send

Chris Jacobs

you have to remember that some congress men may already support us and others on varring degrees.  I think writing a generic letter to every congress man would be hard.  I would have to first find out what my congress men thought about CAP, then i could ask them to do more.  I would feel stupid writing them asking them to do more when they already do a lot.
C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron

SarDragon

As a slightly off-topic reminder, each of you has three people in Congress to write to - two Senators, and a Representative (commonly called Congressman).
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

BillB

Looking at uniform changes, I don't see where the CAP uniform is being moved away from the Air Force uniform. I DO see where the CAP coroprate uniform is moving away. What is the difference between the basic  Air Force Service dress and CAP?  Only the grey epaulets. The name tags are the same, the U.S. cutouts are the same, so where is this big change from the Air Force uniform?
The major uniform changes have all been in the multitude of corporate uniforms.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

Earhart1971

I don't believe its a good idea to write a Congressman or Senator for  internal CAP-USAF differences (not this time), write the ATC Commander instead.

I think the Air Force will finally wake up to the fact that we want the Blue eps back and the metal Rank for Class "A"s back.

The Uniform differences are generated by the CAP side, so our uniform cannot be changed by the whim of an Air Force General, we have our own uniform.

I know this from speaking with the National Commander, he wants the metal rank back on Class "A"s and the Grey Eps gone, and back to Blue.

Grey eps ruins the entire uniform, its almost as awful as the retro choker uniform the Air Force just announced.

I think its the Air Force, they screwed up our uniform and now they are proceeding with screwing up the Air Force Uniform.

The Generals involved need to be arrested for bad taste in uniform fashion.







SarDragon

Quote from: Earhart1971 on May 20, 2006, 12:28:17 AM
I don't believe its a good idea to write a Congressman or Senator for  internal CAP-USAF differences (not this time), write the ATC Commander instead.

I think the Air Force will finally wake up to the fact that we want the Blue eps back and the metal Rank for C back.

The Uniform differences are generated by the CAP side, so our uniform cannot be changed by the whim of an Air Force General, we have our own uniform.

I know this from speaking with the National Commander, he wants the metal rank back on Class "A"s and the Grey Eps gone, and back to Blue.

Grey eps ruins the entire uniform, its almost as awful as the retro choker uniform the Air Force just announced.

I think its the Air Force, they screwed up our uniform and now they are proceeding with screwing up the Air Force Uniform.

The Generals involved need to be arrested for bad taste in uniform fashion.


WTF are Class "A"s?
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

captrncap

I would like to see the blue epaulets back on the shirt but the gray aren't as bad as the maroon. They do look very dumb on the service jacket. Even if the metal never came back, blue epaulets would still be better.

arajca

Quote from: Earhart1971 on May 20, 2006, 12:28:17 AM
The Generals involved need to be arrested for bad taste in uniform fashion.

Call Clinton and Stacy from TLC's What NOT to Wear. >:D

BillB

Dave   The service dress including the service coat used to be called Class A uniform. The class B uniform was the short or long sleeve shirt, no service coat.  The name Class A was dropped years ago, but is still in fairly common use.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

Earhart1971

Quote from: arajca on May 20, 2006, 01:50:22 AM
Quote from: Earhart1971 on May 20, 2006, 12:28:17 AM
The Generals involved need to be arrested for bad taste in uniform fashion.

Call Clinton and Stacy from TLC's What NOT to Wear. >:D

Ok, the Choker Uniform, I saw a picture somewhere, of the retro uniform (inspired by Billy Mitchell and the pre WWII era)  it looks like the Marine Dress Uniform, except it has a cloth belt.

I should have posted a link but cannot find it.

If anybody finds it might be fun to start a thread and let people post their opinions on it.

SarDragon

Quote from: BillB on May 20, 2006, 02:05:51 AM
Dave   The service dress including the service coat used to be called Class A uniform. The class B uniform was the short or long sleeve shirt, no service coat.  The name Class A was dropped years ago, but is still in fairly common use.

I remember that usage from WIWAC (mid 60s), but it's been at least 38 years since that may have been any sort of official designation for CAP uniforms. I just acquired a 1968 vintage CAPM 39-1 and there is no mention of Class [anything] uniforms in it. I know that old habits die hard, but isn't it time to quit using outdated terminology? I find this view no more or less pedantic than much of the other stuff discussed on this and other forums. YMMV.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Earhart1971

Ok, everybody do a google on Class A and B Uniforms, with Air Force, and read all the hits. Found a AFJROTC site that uses the terms.

"US Air Force Military Spec Uniform Nameplate for Class A/B Uniforms. Name tag. Blue finish with White Letters. Size 5/8" "

Comes up for Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines.


shorning

Quote from: Earhart1971 on May 20, 2006, 08:13:02 AM
Ok, everybody do a google on Class A and B Uniforms, with Air Force, and read all the hits. Found a AFJROTC site that uses the terms.

"US Air Force Military Spec Uniform Nameplate for Class A/B Uniforms. Name tag. Blue finish with White Letters. Size 5/8" "

Comes up for Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines.



Well, heck...if it's on the interweb it must be true... ::)

SarDragon

#15
Quote from: Earhart1971 on May 20, 2006, 08:13:02 AM
Ok, everybody do a google on Class A and B Uniforms, with Air Force, and read all the hits. Found a AFJROTC site that uses the terms.

"US Air Force Military Spec Uniform Nameplate for Class A/B Uniforms. Name tag. Blue finish with White Letters. Size 5/8" "

Comes up for Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines.


I just looked at 15 hits on Yahoo! search, at random from the 60 or so listed, and while the hit text had Class A/B and Air Force highlighted, when I went to the specific page, the Class A/B was always associated with Army uniforms.

Even if there is some association found between AF and Class A/B on the 'Net, does that make it proper terminology that we should be teaching new members? It's not in the current AF Uni Manual, and it hasn't been in a CAP Uni Manual since before 1968. Get your head out of the forties and fifties, and move into the 21st century.

[edited to add]   I just looked at the 1800nametape.com site on the Navy page. Here's the listing for a black plastic name tag:

"Engraved plastic name plates for Class "A" and "B" uniforms.  The plates are 3/4 inch tall by 3 inches wide with beveled edges."

The Navy, in all the time I've had an association with them (childhood through the present), has NEVER referred to uniforms as Class anything. It seems that this source is now essentially discredited. I'll stick to the official sources if you don't mind.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Earhart1971

#16
Sorry to disappoint you, I am not from the 40s, LOL

I found five web sites that associated Class A and B uniforms with, the Navy, Marines, Army and the Air Force. 

And just for fun I am going to call an Air Force Recruiter and ask them.

It will be interesting to find out what they say.

I think Class A and B, are easier designations, but how many times have regulations been amended to make it easier! NEVER


Chris Jacobs

I like the A/B system.  It seemed to work.  It was really easy to explain to cadets what the difference was and then for an activity to just give them a letter name for the uniform.

C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron

md132

I'll have to agree with sardargon.  From what a friend of mine who is a Captain in the Air Force, he told me that AF dropped the Class A/B designation in the 70's.  Another friend who was a Marine told me that they NEVER referred there service uniforms as Class A/B.  I don't know about Navy.  Army is pretty much the only one who still uses Class A/B designations for their service uniforms.  Besides if the AF approves a new service uniforms the current designations (Service Blues and Summer Blues) might no longer apply. 


Earhart1971

#19
CAPM39-1 refers to Service Dress (its just too fem, LOL), and Long Sleeve and Short Sleeve (and long sleeve or Short Sleeve is not a designation, its a NOTHING, BLAH description of  the shirt), it just doesn't work for me, and I bet it was written by some secretary at Maxwell AFB, that was a temp from Kelly Girl.

Now, I know why I never use the above terms, its just too limp wrist.

Watch for the release of the new CAPM39-1