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ABUs

Started by MadGrak, September 15, 2011, 05:14:12 AM

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abdsp51

I can concur that it's a matter of if, but there has been changes AF wide since then and you never know.  The current AF senior leadership could be game to submit the proposal once they get it.  We should look forward to what can and could be rather than the past and what was.  IMO the ABU with our tapes or a modified tape would be awesome.

Garibaldi

Quote from: abdsp51 on November 25, 2012, 09:13:43 PM
I can concur that it's a matter of if, but there has been changes AF wide since then and you never know.  The current AF senior leadership could be game to submit the proposal once they get it.  We should look forward to what can and could be rather than the past and what was.  IMO the ABU with our tapes or a modified tape would be awesome.

From what's been posted here, information from our resident NUC Ned, and a bit of scuttlebutt that may or may not be true, it seems all we are waiting on is approval from DoD/SecDef. There are subtleties that are being ironed out, but current conjecture is that it'll be another 3 to 5 years before all the T's are crossed and the I's dotted.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

abdsp51

Quote from: Garibaldi on November 25, 2012, 09:40:49 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 25, 2012, 09:13:43 PM
I can concur that it's a matter of if, but there has been changes AF wide since then and you never know.  The current AF senior leadership could be game to submit the proposal once they get it.  We should look forward to what can and could be rather than the past and what was.  IMO the ABU with our tapes or a modified tape would be awesome.

From what's been posted here, information from our resident NUC Ned, and a bit of scuttlebutt that may or may not be true, it seems all we are waiting on is approval from DoD/SecDef. There are subtleties that are being ironed out, but current conjecture is that it'll be another 3 to 5 years before all the T's are crossed and the I's dotted.

Yeah processes being what it is.  I do think again IMO that the AF leadership today would potentially be far willing to allow it and smooth the wheels for the SecDEF to approve it. 

Eclipse

Quote from: Garibaldi on November 25, 2012, 09:40:49 PMFrom what's been posted here, information from our resident NUC Ned, and a bit of scuttlebutt that may or may not be true, it seems all we are waiting on is approval from DoD/SecDef.

No request has even been sent yet, we're not "waiting" on anything.

Quote from: Ned on November 23, 2012, 08:40:30 PMAs I have indicated in other posts, we are in the process of assembling a packet to go forward to the Office of the Secretary of Defense -- routed through our AF colleagues -- for ABU approval.

"That Others May Zoom"

VNY

Quote from: Eclipse on November 23, 2012, 11:47:07 PMAre they aviator shirts or security guard shirts?   If they have permanent creases, and / or scalloped pockets they are incorrect.

I'm looking for a reference to that and I can't find it.

Blues Brother

Quote from: AirDX on November 24, 2012, 10:57:14 PM

You're making a huge assumption (and a bigger mistake) in assuming that because I wear a polo shirt, and think the reg as written is both nonsense and unenforceable, that I'm unprofessional and lazy.  You are utterly incorrect.  I'm a wing staff officer, I work at it, I participate in the field at the squadron level, and I have the find ribbons, the DR with a V, and the rest of the bling to show for it.  I do PD because I want to (even though I got Captain through the hated mission-related promotions clause, TS on that one folks), including Air Force PME, and I have completed Level IV of the program.

The problem is that none of you can show any reason that the polo is any less of a uniform than any of the others, beyond your personal prejudices.  I spent the money and set up the grey/white combo; it's not that I am resisting the reg, it's that the grey/white hangs in the closet and never comes out.  I've been to meetings with folks from all over the region, 95% are wearing polos.  Soooo... what's the problem?  And don't throw the anti-military thing at me, it won't stick, I was in the Army BITD and I'm a civilian employee of the USAF now.  I'm happy to put my white/grey on, but there hasn't been a reason for me to in four years now, and I don't see one on the horizon anywhere.  You're going to have to tell me what culture it is that needs to change, because I don't see it.

Here's the culture I'm familiar with and that I like: Last month I was course director for an SLS.  About two hours after I got home from Saturday's session, we got the call: tsunami warning.  My class along with the rest of the wing flew warning routes and recon for the the state, ran comms and manned the county EOCs statewide.  I got home about 0130, and tried to figure out how I was going to get the second half of the class covered, since I knew I wouldn't get my class back in the morning.  Much to my surprise about half checked in by text message and e-mail by about 3 AM, saying they would be there!  In the morning, by our 8 AM start, 100% of the class was back, along with all the instructors, bright-eyed and ready to go on 3 hours of sleep!  THAT'S effort and professionalism - class all day, then SAFELY executing a high ORM, high stress night mission, and then back to class the next day, not missing a beat.  Oh yeah, we all wore polos or flight suits.  It's about executing the mission(s), in the classroom, in an exercise, and real-world, NOT about your personal ax you want to grind because you think we should all LOOK a certain way.

If YOU are around a lackadaisical flying-club outfit, that's YOUR problem to solve through motivation, education, and leadership.  Hanging around an internet chat board grumping about polo shirts is none of the above.  Polo shirts aren't a symptom, or a cause.  They are just shirts.           

Oh, and BTW: I don't give a RAT'S what they do in California.   
Some excellent points made here!!!  I agree.

Eclipse

#166
Quote from: AirDX on November 24, 2012, 10:57:14 PMYou're making a huge assumption (and a bigger mistake) in assuming that because I wear a polo shirt, and think the reg as written is both nonsense and unenforceable,

Of course its enforceable.  Both through direct "you will" and through positive peer pressure.

Quote from: AirDX on November 24, 2012, 10:57:14 PM
The problem is that none of you can show any reason that the polo is any less of a uniform than any of the others, beyond your personal prejudices.  I spent the money and set up the grey/white combo; it's not that I am resisting the reg, it's that the grey/white hangs in the closet and never comes out.  I've been to meetings with folks from all over the region, 95% are wearing polos.  Soooo... what's the problem?
The "problem", apparently, is that your wing / region apparently has chosen comfort and convenience over appearance.  That or you do not participate in may more formal activities or activities which have external contact.  That doesn't change what 39-1 says, nor make it less enforceable given the
command imperative to enforce it.

And just because no one else see fit to look professional doesn't stop you from doing it.  LCD is no way to run an organization, yet it seems to
be the excuse for much of why nothing changes.  "Well all the other kids wore shorts!"
Quote from: AirDX on November 24, 2012, 10:57:14 PM
Here's the culture I'm familiar with and that I like: Last month I was course director for an SLS.  About two hours after I got home from Saturday's session, we got the call: tsunami warning.  My class along with the rest of the wing flew warning routes and recon for the the state, ran comms and manned the county EOCs statewide.  I got home about 0130, and tried to figure out how I was going to get the second half of the class covered, since I knew I wouldn't get my class back in the morning.  Much to my surprise about half checked in by text message and e-mail by about 3 AM, saying they would be there!  In the morning, by our 8 AM start, 100% of the class was back, along with all the instructors, bright-eyed and ready to go on 3 hours of sleep!  THAT'S effort and professionalism - class all day, then SAFELY executing a high ORM, high stress night mission, and then back to class the next day, not missing a beat.  Oh yeah, we all wore polos or flight suits.  It's about executing the mission(s), in the classroom, in an exercise, and real-world, NOT about your personal ax you want to grind because you think we should all LOOK a certain way.

Relevance?  You're busy. So are a lot of us, it doesn't change anything, and that ops temp above is not your 24x7 CAP experience.  We all have days
where we look like rolled poop at 1700 because the EOC or aircraft was a sauna and we pulled a double.   That doesn't dictate how we look for a staff meeting or training activity.

Last Friday I was packing for New Hampshire for Sandy relief - the expectation was that I'd be gone at least a week, and you can bet I packed my
whites, despite the fact that I was going to work a REMF job (Unfortunately / fortunately we stood down while I was waiting for the airport gate to let me out).

"That Others May Zoom"

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on November 26, 2012, 03:19:19 AM
Last Friday I was packing for New Hampshire for Sandy relief - the expectation was that I'd be gone at least a week, and you can bet I packed my whites, despite the fact that I was going to work a REMF job (Unfortunately / fortunately we stood down while I was waiting for the airport gate to let me out).

Total bummer, too, Bob. I was looking forward to the opportunity to meet you! :)
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

#168
This is more "writing on the wall":

New technology makes troops invisible

Note the comment about "competing for the next generation contract" which means it's out for RFP in some channel or
another, even if its not publicly or easily available.

CAP obviously doesn't need anything that hides us, but this is more indication that military's field uniforms are in the process of
evolution, and another nail in the coffin of us ever getting ABU's.

"That Others May Zoom"

Garibaldi

Quote from: Eclipse on December 05, 2012, 09:19:36 PM
This more "writing on the wall":

Note the comment about "competing for the next generation contract" which means it's out for RFP in some channel or
another, even if its not publicly or easily available.

CAP obviously doesn't need anything that hides us, but this is more indication that military's field uniforms are in the process of
evolution, and another nail in the coffin of us ever getting ABU's.

Very interesting. Yeah, I don't see us really ever getting the ABU, mainly because of its application in the AF. BDUs were and are functional for what they are, and that's all we really need.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

SARDOC

I was reading the Navy Times the other day and it sounds like there is a move afoot to have all of the services go back to using one common utility uniform due to the cost of and redundancy in the purchasing process as well as supply chains.  This coincidentally comes out the same time of a ruling that says the Marines can't claim sole ownership of the MARPAT.

I think we have a better chance of seeing the MARPAT long before we see ABU's   >:D

vento

Quote from: Eclipse on December 05, 2012, 09:19:36 PM
This is more "writing on the wall":

New technology makes troops invisible

Note the comment about "competing for the next generation contract" which means it's out for RFP in some channel or
another, even if its not publicly or easily available.

CAP obviously doesn't need anything that hides us, but this is more indication that military's field uniforms are in the process of
evolution, and another nail in the coffin of us ever getting ABU's.

CAP really could use that. I take it that the orange vest is still a requirement.  >:D

krnlpanick

Quote from: vento on December 06, 2012, 05:46:17 AM
CAP really could use that. I take it that the orange vest is still a requirement.  >:D

"I was rescued by a floating orange vest! Ghosts are real!"
2nd Lt. Christopher A. Schmidt, CAP

abdsp51

Quote from: SARDOC on December 05, 2012, 10:41:32 PM
I was reading the Navy Times the other day and it sounds like there is a move afoot to have all of the services go back to using one common utility uniform due to the cost of and redundancy in the purchasing process as well as supply chains.  This coincidentally comes out the same time of a ruling that says the Marines can't claim sole ownership of the MARPAT.

I think we have a better chance of seeing the MARPAT long before we see ABU's   >:D

Not a valid source for anything.  And I doubt we will be seeing MARPAT at anytime.

Garibaldi

Quote from: abdsp51 on December 06, 2012, 06:11:04 AM
Quote from: SARDOC on December 05, 2012, 10:41:32 PM
I was reading the Navy Times the other day and it sounds like there is a move afoot to have all of the services go back to using one common utility uniform due to the cost of and redundancy in the purchasing process as well as supply chains.  This coincidentally comes out the same time of a ruling that says the Marines can't claim sole ownership of the MARPAT.

I think we have a better chance of seeing the MARPAT long before we see ABU's   >:D

Not a valid source for anything.  And I doubt we will be seeing MARPAT at anytime. Ever.

FTFY  >:D
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

abdsp51


Garibaldi

Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

abdsp51


The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: SARDOC on December 05, 2012, 10:41:32 PM
I was reading the Navy Times the other day and it sounds like there is a move afoot to have all of the services go back to using one common utility uniform due to the cost of and redundancy in the purchasing process as well as supply chains.

Which is WHY the BDU's were introduced in the first place!

I remember back in the early '80s, when my then brother-in-law was in the Army and he got his first set.  He told me then that all the Armed Forces were going to be wearing those, in an effort to save money, and that's what happened (though more limited in the Navy and Coast Guard).

When the Marines introduced "their" camo I remember thinking, "this is going to start the ball rolling for each service," and that's exactly what happened.

The colour/camouflage pattern doesn't have to be the same for each service (in the case of most AF/Navy/CG personnel, a camouflage pattern wouldn't be needed at all) but it would make a lot more sense to have a standard cut/pattern.

We do not need ABU's, other than to have a link with our parent service, which we have in other uniform aspects.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

ol'fido

Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006