CAP joins the TEA party

[Major Lord]

In your eyes, the WAA program may not be a political statement, but I will guarantee you that there are leftists and atheists who will be profoundly confirmed in their beliefs that CAP conducting memorial ceremonies with Christian Symbols in support of the dead of the wars will view it as political speech. Now if you are saying that this is not a political activity, you have used your discretion to make that determination. As far as I know, the Air Force is silent on the matter. If you are saying we (Commanders specifically) don't have leeway in determining which activities are within our proper purposes, then you are arguing that we need the Air Force to approve anything that even resembles a CAP public activity. I don't believe that to be the case. The AF does not want us out there throwing rocks and participating in demonstrations, or even going on stage in Uniform and saying " Candidate X is not such a bad guy", but that does not mean we can't carry out traditional color guard activities in ordinary civic activities.

Of course, the chart above the entry in question forbids doing even these things, in support of communists, fascists, etc. You can still support socialists, since they don't advocate (openly) the overthrow of the United States by unconstitutional means. ( Of course, I believe a socialist is just a communist who is good at hiding his AK)

Major Lord

Lordy, Lordy!
As an agnostic Buddhist liberal Obama-loving Democrat member of CAP, IT NEVER CROSSED MY MIND THAT WAA WAS REMOTELY A POLITICAL EVENT!  We were helping to honor fallen American veterans.  And has anyone from the Vast Leftwing Conspiracy said a peep about WAA?  Might some crackpot on the far left of my side of the spectrum betch and moan about WAA?  Perhaps.  But even most of us godless socialists would say they are full of crap.  Just because someone has a D after their name doesn't mean they don't love their country.

Todd,

I am in no way making the case that the WAA program is "political speech". I am arguing  that the regulation is ambiguous and subject to local interpretation. I am sure that you as a self-described godless socialist can appreciate that SOME people from the left make that argument. Cindy Sheehan was my specific example. I don't believe that all Democrats are atheists, nor do I believe that all Democrats are Socialists. Some from the Right might make the argument that a Cadet receiving his Spaatz award from the Hands of B. Hussein Obama  at a political function is a violation of the regulation. The strictest reading of the Regulation could arguably be interpreted that way.

The Unit Commander is for all practical purposes the approving authority for color guard activities, and to expect AF approval for every public appearance of a CAP color guard is just preposterous. Various tests for what constitutes an activity have been implied in this thread, with no real consensus. That fact that some people see National  Party Conventions as okay, but "Tea Party" events as impermissible shows a wide variance in the views and interpretation of the regulation. If the test is merely that someone objects to CAP participation on the grounds that they view the activity as political, we won't be permitted to do any public activities.

The issue of public funding in my mind is just a red herring. ( No offense is intended to any communist fish)

Major Lord

[DogCollar]

My goodness.  Is this really that difficult?

Events that are strictly political would be verbotten.  Posting the colors for the events of Dems, GOP, TEA Party, Socialists, Nazis, Communists, etc...would be off limits.  Being in uniform for ANY kind of protest would not be allowable.  Posting the colors at an event where a politician might show up and say a few words, such as a 4th of July Parade, Veterans Day, etc...would be fine.

Last I looked, President Obama was in our chain of command and thus an appropriate presenter of a cadet achievement award. 

[tdepp]

In your eyes, the WAA program may not be a political statement, but I will guarantee you that there are leftists and atheists who will be profoundly confirmed in their beliefs that CAP conducting memorial ceremonies with Christian Symbols in support of the dead of the wars will view it as political speech. Now if you are saying that this is not a political activity, you have used your discretion to make that determination. As far as I know, the Air Force is silent on the matter. If you are saying we (Commanders specifically) don't have leeway in determining which activities are within our proper purposes, then you are arguing that we need the Air Force to approve anything that even resembles a CAP public activity. I don't believe that to be the case. The AF does not want us out there throwing rocks and participating in demonstrations, or even going on stage in Uniform and saying " Candidate X is not such a bad guy", but that does not mean we can't carry out traditional color guard activities in ordinary civic activities.

Of course, the chart above the entry in question forbids doing even these things, in support of communists, fascists, etc. You can still support socialists, since they don't advocate (openly) the overthrow of the United States by unconstitutional means. ( Of course, I believe a socialist is just a communist who is good at hiding his AK)

Major Lord

Lordy, Lordy!
As an agnostic Buddhist liberal Obama-loving Democrat member of CAP, IT NEVER CROSSED MY MIND THAT WAA WAS REMOTELY A POLITICAL EVENT!  We were helping to honor fallen American veterans.  And has anyone from the Vast Leftwing Conspiracy said a peep about WAA?  Might some crackpot on the far left of my side of the spectrum betch and moan about WAA?  Perhaps.  But even most of us godless socialists would say they are full of crap.  Just because someone has a D after their name doesn't mean they don't love their country.

Todd,

I am in no way making the case that the WAA program is "political speech". I am arguing  that the regulation is ambiguous and subject to local interpretation. I am sure that you as a self-described godless socialist can appreciate that SOME people from the left make that argument. Cindy Sheehan was my specific example. I don't believe that all Democrats are atheists, nor do I believe that all Democrats are Socialists. Some from the Right might make the argument that a Cadet receiving his Spaatz award from the Hands of B. Hussein Obama  at a political function is a violation of the regulation. The strictest reading of the Regulation could arguably be interpreted that way.

The Unit Commander is for all practical purposes the approving authority for color guard activities, and to expect AF approval for every public appearance of a CAP color guard is just preposterous. Various tests for what constitutes an activity have been implied in this thread, with no real consensus. That fact that some people see National  Party Conventions as okay, but "Tea Party" events as impermissible shows a wide variance in the views and interpretation of the regulation. If the test is merely that someone objects to CAP participation on the grounds that they view the activity as political, we won't be permitted to do any public activities.

The issue of public funding in my mind is just a red herring. ( No offense is intended to any communist fish)

Major Lord

Oh my Lord!
I'll tell you the same thing my Republican friends said after the 2000 Presidential election and the Supreme Court declared GWB the President.  Get over it.  I wasn't wild about GWB but he was the President, even my President.  You may not be wild about BHO, but he is the President, even your President.  He is the commander in chief of the armed forces.  One of the hallmarks of our system has been the military's respect of civilian rule, no matter who is in charge.  And as members of a USAF auxiliary, I think that applies to us as well.

If you don't think President Obama is a natural born American or whatever, you can certainly hold and advocate those views on your own time.  But as far as CAP is concerned, he's the President and in our official capacities, we show at least his office the respect it is due from us.  We don't get to pick and choose who we will or won't follow as CAP members.  If we feel strongly enough and there is evidence of wrongdoing, there is a process to oust our own members and leaders.  And there's also a process to impeach a President.  But that is not a CAP concern.

Remember, that whole chain of command thing?

[Major Lord]

There is nothing in the regulation that states "strictly political" as an element of the regulation. So we agree that the regulation is subject to local interpretation. Good. In your view, a Party Activity would not be appropriate (unless someone in our chain of command was there...... introducing yet another arbitrary criteria to the test for permissibility.) Would wearing the CAP uniform at a military funeral be permissible? What if the lads from the Westborough Baptist Church were there to protest? Would our presence be considered participation, and an endorsement of a political or religious system? We could be shown in uniform on TV next to the protest signs! Crikey! Your view of an activity that is strictly political varies with your own biases. How many words would a political figure have to say in your view before a July Fourth celebration became political?

Assuming the Commander at the local level was in the decision loop, and a group of Cadets did not go rogue and start honoring our Nations Colors willy-nilly, (those hooligans!)  the commander made the decision that raising the flag at a pro-American, pro-constitution rally was not in conflict with the regulation. The same decision was made by the commander ( presumably) to carry our Nations Colors at a political convention. Neither commander apparently felt that the spirit of the regulation, which was clearly designed to prohibit partisan advocacy, was violated.

Major Lord

[RiverAux]

Again, this is not a CAP call to make and is not subject to local discretion, rather it is up to the AF (presumably in the person of the CAP-USAF State Director) to decide whether any even that is even remotely questionable should be participated in by uniformed CAP members. 

[AirAux]

You know, I would like to make a correction in some of the above posts.  As far as I can tell, President Obama is our President.  I do not think he is in our chain of command.  If you will look at our chain of command, he does not fall in it.  We are directed by the BOG and the National Board. President Obama is the COC of the Armed Forces and we are in no way the Armed Forces, nor do we in any way fall under that category.  We are a civilian corporation that falls under the Air Force as an Auxiliary with either a large A or a little a, depending on what our task is at the moment.  More and more of our task are under the little a.  This is not disparaging President Obama, he is our President, but he is not our COC and not even in our chain of command..     

[DakRadz]

Okay.....CAP is paid for by the Federal Government.

Bottom line......is supporting a political rally a no no or not?

If it is verboten....where is the line between presenting the colors at the local football game and presenting the colors at the Communist Party Rally?

As was pointed out.  The local 4th of July event may have politicians giving speeches.  I know at Nevada WAA event there were several politicians who are running for office who have speeches.

So if it just a matter of getting USAF approval.....what is the process?

I would say it was like this...

Poating the colors at the Democratic or Republican national, or State Nominating Convention, even caucuses, would fly because they are "parts of the process" and not really support for either political group...but, showing support for the American Process.  So would posting the colors at an swearing in or other inaugration, these are CIVIC in nature as opposed to POLITICAL.

Posting the colors at a candidate's fundraiser or Tea Party would be a different matter.   One is a personal drive to Office where political ideology is key, the other is an exercise of political assemble as per the 1st Amendment.   These would be more of POLITICAL than CIVIC.

Coulnd't this just be the end of the thread?
XD Yeah, right.

At least stay on topic, even?
Well, I tried.

OFF TO CAP!!!!!! I love Tuesdays

[NIN]

A CAP-Talk thread spiraling out of control?  Whoa, whodathunkit?

This is my 2.5 cents worth (adjusted for inflation) as a 28 year veteran of the organization and a guy who has been to/marched/posted the colors at many a community parade/holiday/meeting, I can give some fairly clear cut suggestions for "the little guy in the field."

1) If its a Federal holiday-type event (parade or ceremony) sponsored in some way by the community, like Veteran's Day, Memorial Day, President's Day, Independence Day, Labor Day or Martin Luther King Day, then chances its probably A-OK to participate.  Might there be "political speech" at an event like this?  Perhaps.  Usually its by an elected official, and its more of a "Hey, I'm the mayor!" kind of thing, not "hey, I'm a pastafarian and I want you to vote spaghetti this fall!"

2) If its a Federal holiday-type event (parade or ceremony) sponsored by a private organization (Kiwanis, Elks, Moose, Grange, etc), its probably A-OK to participate (ie. my old unit has participated in the local Elk's Lodge Flag Day ceremony for years with zero ill effect). Again, elected officials could be invited to attend (we frequently had the mayor and the chief of police at ours, occasionally a state rep), but its more a 'community event' not a 'political event.'  (the Elks thing was so small that frankly I'm surprised they still have it... )

3) If its an event sponsored by a named political party (local or otherwise) or some kind of clearly political group, then its probably NOT OK.  For example, if my town's "Young Pastafarians" sponsored a rally on Independence Day that was a "We Want Ours Al Dente!" themed rally, perhaps that's not the best place for a CAP squadron to be posting the colors.  Or  if 'Sauce On.org" sponsored a "Smother Your Pasta" event, I'm guessing that we'd get splattered and shouldn't attend.

4) If its an event, on a Federal Holiday or not, that has as its purpose to provide a platform for a specific party or candidate, whether that candidate is an incumbent or not, then its probably not OK.  So if Mayor Rigatoni is running for re-election this year, and his Pastafarian supporters hold a rally "Rigatoni for Dinner!"  its probably not a good idea for a CAP color guard to be there.  Or, if Candidate Green Bean from the Green Vegetable party was holding a "Steamed? Yeah, Me Too!" rally on the state house steps, its probably not cool.

True Story: I worked at a college in the "First in the Nation Primary" state.  We got a LOT of political traffic thru, both people in the "exploratory" mode, and candidates in full-blown campaign mode.   Rudy Guilani's campaign held a rally at some point in 2007, in the run up to the 2008 election, in our student center with pretty extensive TV coverage.   I get there a little late (I was pretty chapped off at the campaign folks who whined and complained incessantly for unfettered internet access and when we provided it, they didn't use it.  jerks), but I can se eon the TVs scattered around that there is a kid who I know to be a student and a USAR soldier sitting in the FRONT ROW of this rally (right at the edge of the big red-white-and-blue floor riser with "RUDY" in gigantic letters) IN UNIFORM.  CNN was _all_over_ this kid, too.

But even WORSE was a local ARNG recruiter, ALSO IN UNIFORM, standing in the back of the room

(you can clearly see him in that shot, standing in front of the stairwell door to the left of Rudy. And oh, look, there I am, behind the guy, above Rudy's elbow..<GRIN>)

Now, clearly this is a political event.  Its sole purpose is to advance the platform of one political candidate.  Its completely, 100% politically motivated. 

The worst part was when the microphone got passed around the "town hall," one of Rudy's enterprising staffers managed to get it into the hands of this Army National Guard guy, and the first thing out of his mouth is "I'm very honored to be speaking to my next Commander-in-Chief.."  I about passed out. Seriously.  What a political coup for the Guiliani folks: here's a serving member of the armed forces endorsing Rudy IN UNIFORM!   Isn't Rudy GREAT? 

After the event was over I encountered this recruiter in the hallway. I walked right up to him and said "Excuse me, Sergeant, but did the DoD rescind the restrictions on participation in political events in uniform especially when such participation might lend the appearance of approval or sponsorship?"

He looked me up and down, caught the haircut and said "Well, sir, I wasn't aware of any such..."

I cut him off "Come on, you can't tell me that an Army National Guard E-7 doesn't know you're not supposed to go to a political rally _in_uniform_.  This is Basic Training stuff, Sergeant. And would surely be reinforced in PLDC, BNCOC and ANCOC..."

He stammered out something about not knowing it was against the rules.  I said "My advice to you is to head back to your office and call your first sergeant or your sergeant major and give them a heads up before your diatribe hits the airwaves tonight and they get some one-star from National Guard Bureau lighting their phones on fire.. ."

The guy got as green as the foliage green in his ACUs and he said "Oh, uh, I better do that.." and scampered away..



Cadets: Don't go to things in uniform unless its a) part of your official duties; and b) your commander knows about it.

Commanders: Use common sense and judgment when picking activities to participate in.  The 7th Annual Veterans Wreath Laying sponsored by the VFW is probably OK.  The 1st Annual Fight Against Canned Spaghetti-Os sponsored by "Pastafarians For Fresh Pasta" featuring the former Chief Scientist for Chef Boyardee is likely a political hackjob you should steer clear of.

[N Harmon]

I'm hungry for spaghetti now.

[davidsinn]

A CAP-Talk thread spiraling out of control?  Whoa, whodathunkit?

This is my 2.5 cents worth (adjusted for inflation) as a 28 year veteran of the organization and a guy who has been to/marched/posted the colors at many a community parade/holiday/meeting, I can give some fairly clear cut suggestions for "the little guy in the field."

1) If its a Federal holiday-type event (parade or ceremony) sponsored in some way by the community, like Veteran's Day, Memorial Day, President's Day, Independence Day, Labor Day or Martin Luther King Day, then chances its probably A-OK to participate.  Might there be "political speech" at an event like this?  Perhaps.  Usually its by an elected official, and its more of a "Hey, I'm the mayor!" kind of thing, not "hey, I'm a pastafarian and I want you to vote spaghetti this fall!"

2) If its a Federal holiday-type event (parade or ceremony) sponsored by a private organization (Kiwanis, Elks, Moose, Grange, etc), its probably A-OK to participate (ie. my old unit has participated in the local Elk's Lodge Flag Day ceremony for years with zero ill effect). Again, elected officials could be invited to attend (we frequently had the mayor and the chief of police at ours, occasionally a state rep), but its more a 'community event' not a 'political event.'  (the Elks thing was so small that frankly I'm surprised they still have it... )

3) If its an event sponsored by a named political party (local or otherwise) or some kind of clearly political group, then its probably NOT OK.  For example, if my town's "Young Pastafarians" sponsored a rally on Independence Day that was a "We Want Ours Al Dente!" themed rally, perhaps that's not the best place for a CAP squadron to be posting the colors.  Or  if 'Sauce On.org" sponsored a "Smother Your Pasta" event, I'm guessing that we'd get splattered and shouldn't attend.

4) If its an event, on a Federal Holiday or not, that has as its purpose to provide a platform for a specific party or candidate, whether that candidate is an incumbent or not, then its probably not OK.  So if Mayor Rigatoni is running for re-election this year, and his Pastafarian supporters hold a rally "Rigatoni for Dinner!"  its probably not a good idea for a CAP color guard to be there.  Or, if Candidate Green Bean from the Green Vegetable party was holding a "Steamed? Yeah, Me Too!" rally on the state house steps, its probably not cool.

True Story: I worked at a college in the "First in the Nation Primary" state.  We got a LOT of political traffic thru, both people in the "exploratory" mode, and candidates in full-blown campaign mode.   Rudy Guilani's campaign held a rally at some point in 2007, in the run up to the 2008 election, in our student center with pretty extensive TV coverage.   I get there a little late (I was pretty chapped off at the campaign folks who whined and complained incessantly for unfettered internet access and when we provided it, they didn't use it.  jerks), but I can se eon the TVs scattered around that there is a kid who I know to be a student and a USAR soldier sitting in the FRONT ROW of this rally (right at the edge of the big red-white-and-blue floor riser with "RUDY" in gigantic letters) IN UNIFORM.  CNN was _all_over_ this kid, too.

But even WORSE was a local ARNG recruiter, ALSO IN UNIFORM, standing in the back of the room

(you can clearly see him in that shot, standing in front of the stairwell door to the left of Rudy. And oh, look, there I am, behind the guy, above Rudy's elbow..<GRIN>)

Now, clearly this is a political event.  Its sole purpose is to advance the platform of one political candidate.  Its completely, 100% politically motivated. 

The worst part was when the microphone got passed around the "town hall," one of Rudy's enterprising staffers managed to get it into the hands of this Army National Guard guy, and the first thing out of his mouth is "I'm very honored to be speaking to my next Commander-in-Chief.."  I about passed out. Seriously.  What a political coup for the Guiliani folks: here's a serving member of the armed forces endorsing Rudy IN UNIFORM!   Isn't Rudy GREAT? 

After the event was over I encountered this recruiter in the hallway. I walked right up to him and said "Excuse me, Sergeant, but did the DoD rescind the restrictions on participation in political events in uniform especially when such participation might lend the appearance of approval or sponsorship?"

He looked me up and down, caught the haircut and said "Well, sir, I wasn't aware of any such..."

I cut him off "Come on, you can't tell me that an Army National Guard E-7 doesn't know you're not supposed to go to a political rally _in_uniform_.  This is Basic Training stuff, Sergeant. And would surely be reinforced in PLDC, BNCOC and ANCOC..."

He stammered out something about not knowing it was against the rules.  I said "My advice to you is to head back to your office and call your first sergeant or your sergeant major and give them a heads up before your diatribe hits the airwaves tonight and they get some one-star from National Guard Bureau lighting their phones on fire.. ."

The guy got as green as the foliage green in his ACUs and he said "Oh, uh, I better do that.." and scampered away..



Cadets: Don't go to things in uniform unless its a) part of your official duties; and b) your commander knows about it.

Commanders: Use common sense and judgment when picking activities to participate in.  The 7th Annual Veterans Wreath Laying sponsored by the VFW is probably OK.  The 1st Annual Fight Against Canned Spaghetti-Os sponsored by "Pastafarians For Fresh Pasta" featuring the former Chief Scientist for Chef Boyardee is likely a political hackjob you should steer clear of.

Very nice explanation that sums up my thoughts pretty well.

[Nathan]

I think there's another side of this to consider.

NIN's story provides a pretty good example of a member in uniform participating in a slanted event in such a way that indicates support. A general no-no.

The question I want to ask, though, is what technically constitutes "participation." The obvious definition is "being there", but I think there is more to it. I wish I had the reg here in front of me, but I think the more important part of the idea of participation is the image of support, and that isn't always there, despite the purpose of the gathering. For instance...

1) When I got my Spaatz award, a HoR member presented it to me. He was a Democrat, and spoke about what a cool fellow I was. Does the fact that his ideals are Democratic and that he thought I was a cool fellow indicate that he was saying I was a good Democrat? Of course not. Despite the fact that we had a political member (acting as a political staff member) present and speaking at the event with CAP members present about his opinions, the event was obviously not an indication of CAP's support of the HoR member or his ideals. Right?

2) If a CAP unit goes in uniform to a speech presented by President Obama, and gets a unit picture with him, does the nature or proposed nature of his speech indicate the appropriateness of CAP presence? For instance, if he is going to talk about how we need more money for education, well, that's technically a political issue. It will be voted upon, and some people will vote against it. Can a CAP unit still show up and watch the President speak and get a picture with him?

3) Take the same thing, except enter in various different people. For instance, if it was a former Republican President? A Senator? A Presidential candidate? A former Presidential candidate? Does it make a difference if it is election season?

I think the very nature of the color guard also makes the difference of "support" within "participation" important. A typical color guard is not supposed to do anything but present and retreat the colors. Other than that, they don't participate in the event (in uniform), just listen quietly. If we are under the assumption that our color guard does nothing more but present the colors, stand off to the side, and then retreat them...

4) Is it "participation" in the event to present the colors at a political event? Does it indicate support for the Republican party to post the colors at an event run by Republicans if the CAP unit does not break the above assumptions? Is it support for the Democrats to present the colors for the President when he makes a statement against the Republicans, just because the cadets presented the flag?

5) Is it support for terrorism if a color guard posts the colors at an event where world leaders give speeches (such as a college event) and the leader of Iran gives a speech against American values?

I'm inclined to think not. Posting the colors does not, in itself, seem to be to be an act of support for anything but the United States. There is not going to be any serious candidate for President, Senator, or whatever that is going to be anti-American, and as long as they respect the flag, I think that it would technically be inappropriate for CAP cadets to post the colors. I don't particularly agree with the Tea Party or the way they do things, but after taking a step back, it's pretty hard to say that they're anti-American, and that they use the flag disrespectfully. As long as that criteria is met, I am not entirely sure that "participation" in the event is necessarily a problem, so long as "support" for the event is not implied by the participation.

I don't know about you guys, but "participation" does not equal "support" for the ideals of the event, and as long as the flag is being respected by the participants of the event. It would simply be a respect of the colors at an event that is talking about legal, political ways to change America, and, especially with political rallies, I'm not entirely sure that we need to worry as long as we don't have problems like NIN's occur.

Of course, for this to work, we'd not only have to have the common sense of the commander's intact, but we'd have to follow the rules "equal airtime", in that if a Republican party got to use the color guard, then the Democratic party should have equal ability to use that color guard, should it be available to them. Obviously, it can't be obligatory, since we're using cadets, but the spirit of the idea is there.

And I know, this philosophy probably couldn't be accurately written down in words. But the line IS pretty gray, and I think that we can find the black-and-white line if we differentiate between those advocating illegal, fringe bias, and those expressing legal, patriotic methods of change (or whatever). Our cadets would then only be showing support for the colors at a political event, not for the political event itself.

Am I off base here?

[Major Lord]

So River Aux leaves us with the "nothing can be done without AF approval" model, and NIN suggests guidelines for participation that will probably be safe enough to not result in the CAP version of a keelhauling. This leaves us with the status quo: Its only a problem if someone complains.... CAP, being CAP, someone always will! Personally, I think that the Commander should use his best Judgment, and that the regulation was not intended to make us seek a mother-may-I for every public activity.

Major Lord

[RiverAux]

Actually, I think NIN's guidelines make a whole lot of sense and the "probably not oks" that he mentioned are just the sort of thing you would want to ask the SD about just to make sure. 

[Short Field]

^^^ Common Sense - what a concept.   :clap:

[tdepp]

Actually, I think NIN's guidelines make a whole lot of sense and the "probably not oks" that he mentioned are just the sort of thing you would want to ask the SD about just to make sure.

I cannot take anyone seriously who advocates that we be allowed to post the colors at a Tea Party event.  They are not a political party like the Ds or Rs.  They are group of people with an ax to grind against President Obama, Democrats, liberals, non-Christians, and basically anyone who isn't like them.  I think that is EXACTLY the reason why such a ban is in place and requires USAF approval.  Let's reverse the politics.  Would anyone allow a CAP color guard participate in posting the colors at a Green Party event?  An American Socialist Party event?  They would also claim to be "pro-American."

I don't know about your squadrons, but my squadron's color guard is extremely busy presenting the colors at ANG, NG, city, veterans, and other such non-partisan gatherings and events.  If either the left or the right politicizes CAP, we will lose members, credibility, and financial support.  Our missions, once again, are emergency services, cadet training, aerospace education, complaining about Vanguard, and coming up with new uniform combinations.  Nowhere does it say politics.  If you want to be involved in politics, great.  There are local candidates and parties who need your help. But not while you are wearing a CAP uniform or in the name of CAP. 

[Cecil DP]

Hurricane season doesn't start until June, but CAP has already gearing up for the "Tempest in a Teacup"

[cap235629]

Actually, I think NIN's guidelines make a whole lot of sense and the "probably not oks" that he mentioned are just the sort of thing you would want to ask the SD about just to make sure.

I cannot take anyone seriously who advocates that we be allowed to post the colors at a Tea Party event.  They are not a political party like the Ds or Rs.  They are group of people with an ax to grind against President Obama, Democrats, liberals, non-Christians, and basically anyone who isn't like them.  I think that is EXACTLY the reason why such a ban is in place and requires USAF approval.  Let's reverse the politics.  Would anyone allow a CAP color guard participate in posting the colors at a Green Party event?  An American Socialist Party event?  They would also claim to be "pro-American."

I don't know about your squadrons, but my squadron's color guard is extremely busy presenting the colors at ANG, NG, city, veterans, and other such non-partisan gatherings and events.  If either the left or the right politicizes CAP, we will lose members, credibility, and financial support.  Our missions, once again, are emergency services, cadet training, aerospace education, complaining about Vanguard, and coming up with new uniform combinations.  Nowhere does it say politics.  If you want to be involved in politics, great.  There are local candidates and parties who need your help. But not while you are wearing a CAP uniform or in the name of CAP.

I would appreciate it if you kept your POLITICAL opinions to yourself

[SarDragon]

Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

[RRLE]

the commander made the decision that raising the flag at a pro-American, pro-constitution rally was not in conflict with the regulation

It makes you wonder what the reaction would have been if the posting of the flag had been done at a Coffee Party Rally - you know those left-wing, socialist, minority, athiest whatevers some just seem to hate around here.

[tdepp]

Actually, I think NIN's guidelines make a whole lot of sense and the "probably not oks" that he mentioned are just the sort of thing you would want to ask the SD about just to make sure.

I cannot take anyone seriously who advocates that we be allowed to post the colors at a Tea Party event.  They are not a political party like the Ds or Rs.  They are group of people with an ax to grind against President Obama, Democrats, liberals, non-Christians, and basically anyone who isn't like them.  I think that is EXACTLY the reason why such a ban is in place and requires USAF approval.  Let's reverse the politics.  Would anyone allow a CAP color guard participate in posting the colors at a Green Party event?  An American Socialist Party event?  They would also claim to be "pro-American."

I don't know about your squadrons, but my squadron's color guard is extremely busy presenting the colors at ANG, NG, city, veterans, and other such non-partisan gatherings and events.  If either the left or the right politicizes CAP, we will lose members, credibility, and financial support.  Our missions, once again, are emergency services, cadet training, aerospace education, complaining about Vanguard, and coming up with new uniform combinations.  Nowhere does it say politics.  If you want to be involved in politics, great.  There are local candidates and parties who need your help. But not while you are wearing a CAP uniform or in the name of CAP.

I would appreciate it if you kept your POLITICAL opinions to yourself

Hey, I didn't start this thread or initially bring up the Tea Party or suggest that it would somehow be ok to have CAP at a Tea Party event in ANY capacity.  And when others tell me here what great Americans they are and how pro-American they are, that's not how I see it.  Which is the whole point to not allowing political involvement while in CAP uniform to begin with. 

There's also an ignore feature you can place me on if you find my views inappropriate.  Or dime me to the moderators. 

Frankly, I'd rather concentrate on talking about how we can make our organization better, how we can help the public, how we can better promote CAP, talk about our proud history, discuss why Vanguard is the progenitor of all evil in the world, and debate whether we need still more uniforms.

RINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!  TIME'S UP.