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Gun Safety

Started by nicktavegia, July 15, 2010, 02:54:35 PM

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nicktavegia

I'm visiting a relative who has a certificate to teach gun safety for the goverment and one for Connetcitcut and New York.  He's teaching me gun safety and I'm going to the firing range every day.  If I pass and he can give me a certificate can I use it for something in CAP?

Nick
Semper Vigilans,
C/MSgt Nicholas Tavegia
Flight Sergeant Bartow Etowah Composite Squadron
Cadet of the Quarter


Phil Hirons, Jr.

Short answer: No

There are other threads on the NRA Marksmanship Medal being earned and worn on the blues. The NRA program it refers to has been modified or renamed several times since the reference was written. The state courses you refer to are generally for purchasing firearms or getting a concealed carry permit. (Not possible for a cadet).

nicktavegia

Thanks.  It would have been for gun safety so I wasn't sure.
Semper Vigilans,
C/MSgt Nicholas Tavegia
Flight Sergeant Bartow Etowah Composite Squadron
Cadet of the Quarter


N Harmon

You could use the training and experience to hold a gun safety seminar for your other cadets. Talk to your senior safety officer about doing it for the next monthly safety briefing.
NATHAN A. HARMON, Capt, CAP
Monroe Composite Squadron

TCMajor

OK I have to pipe in here.  Don't take this as anything other than a "heads up".   ;D

When we refer to modern firearms, the term gun refers to a smooth bore weapon (shotgun).  Pistols and Rifles all are rifled and are not referred to as guns in the proper vernacular.  So what you want is a "firearms" safety course or "weapons" training.  That unless you are in fact getting trained on shotguns.  With our attachment to the Air Force you want to ensure that you use proper terms for the systems involved.  It doesn't matter a hill of beans in here, but if you start corresponding with "Big Blue", make sure you speak their language.  It's all about credibility. 
Major Kevin N. Harbison, CAP
Major, USA (RET)
Commander
Greater Nashua Composite Squadron

N Harmon

 ???

So, we lose credibility with the military by using "gun" interchangeably with "firearm" and "weapon", even though the Army, and Air Force do the same?
NATHAN A. HARMON, Capt, CAP
Monroe Composite Squadron

SarDragon

Oh, the Canoe Club's in on the deal, too. Them big oversize sewer pipes on the USS New Jersey, et al, are guns, and have rifled barrels. They shoot 16" rounds, the weight of a VW, as far as 22 miles. Not bad for a "gun".
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

TCMajor

What you are referring to are the large weapon systems that trough tradition remain with the term gun.  Most of which started out as smooth bore weapons and retained their name through common usage.  The others are crew served weapons.  If you go to a military weapons range and refer to a sidearm or other individual weapon as a gun you will lose credibility.  You will note that I never brought up major weapons systems or large bore armament because the original poster never did.   Again, I can tell you that if you walk onto a military weapons range and refer to your M-4 or or M-16 as a gun you will be corrected immediately.   Just read the post and don't read into it.  It was meant to assist this person in using proper terminology in the view of experts.  Please make an attempt at understanding the post so that you are really adding to the discussion. 
Major Kevin N. Harbison, CAP
Major, USA (RET)
Commander
Greater Nashua Composite Squadron

EMT-83


TCMajor

 :clap: I was going to go there, but the video is soooooo much better.  Gotta love Gunny!
Major Kevin N. Harbison, CAP
Major, USA (RET)
Commander
Greater Nashua Composite Squadron

Dad2-4

If you become an NRA Certified Instructor, then you're qualified to teach marksmanship at a CAP event (encampment).

Smithsonia

#11
Let me help this discussion with a clear and precise definition: WEAPON: "Any device that by INTENTION is used to kill or maim man or beast."

I own several guns. Only some are weapons. Most are for target practice. Most will never do anything but go to the range and make holes in paper targets. A few are for hunting. One is a personal home defense gun. The personal defense and hunting shotguns are the only weapons
among the various guns I own.
Shooting at targets is not by INTENTION - designed for the killing or maiming man or beast. I can teach hunter safety and Firearms/Gun Safety as an NRA instructor. I can not teach weapons training. That has to do with tactical movement, rapid engagements, defensive fire, supressive fire, clearing fields of fire, house clearing, dynamic breaching, etc. It is not something taught in standard NRA schools but is taught at places like Thunder Ranch, US military, Police SWAT academies, etc.

Marksmanship is but a part of this full weapons training. Do NOT confuse these terms. Know the difference and preach the differences. It is confusion on such matters that leads to closing of gun ranges, loss of gun owners rights, and lack of general public understanding about firearms. All Guns are firearms. Very few are weapons. However, once intention is invested all can become weapons... but then again so can golf clubs, cars, baseball bats, and kitchen knives.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

lordmonar

Quote from: TCMajor on July 17, 2010, 02:51:34 AM
OK I have to pipe in here.  Don't take this as anything other than a "heads up".   ;D

When we refer to modern firearms, the term gun refers to a smooth bore weapon (shotgun).  Pistols and Rifles all are rifled and are not referred to as guns in the proper vernacular.  So what you want is a "firearms" safety course or "weapons" training.  That unless you are in fact getting trained on shotguns.  With our attachment to the Air Force you want to ensure that you use proper terms for the systems involved.  It doesn't matter a hill of beans in here, but if you start corresponding with "Big Blue", make sure you speak their language.  It's all about credibility.

The USAF does not care that much (unless you are combat arms).  Gun, firearm, M-9, what ever....Yes it is about credibility....a cadet is asking abour weapons training....that is all the creditiblty he needs.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

nicktavegia

I didn't ask for a certificate, but my new uncle taught me how to safely hold, load, unload, carry and fire several types of firearms. 

I fired a 22 Mosquito and a 9mm Glock.  I also got to shoot a .45 and a .357 Colt Lawman that was a 40 year old FBI issued gun.  My uncle had done a search through Colt to get the information when he bought the .357.

When I fired the Colt, people at the range would come and ask 'What WAS that?'  The .357 was LOUD.  It was very light and had no recoil.  The colt was much louder than the .357 Magnum my uncle fired. 

Nick
Semper Vigilans,
C/MSgt Nicholas Tavegia
Flight Sergeant Bartow Etowah Composite Squadron
Cadet of the Quarter


TCMajor

That sounds like you had a great time.  Keep training, and never loose respect for your firearms.  Also make sure that you keep abreast of all the attempts to take away your right to own them.  As smithsonia stated, the 2nd Amendment is under fire (pun intended) from many sources.  It is up to us to ensure that it stays as the founders intended.  The NRA is on the forefront of this battle.  Most people will claim its ignorance that causes these attacks, but that is not giving the enemy enough credit.  They know what they are doing and intend to win.  When I was growing up in New Hampshire, we used to be able to carry our hunting riffles to school in our trucks during hunting season.  Heck we had a shooting range on school property.  Now?  The feds have made it a felony.  Go figure.  Its a slow erosion of rights.  Sorry for the rant, but it is up to you young guys to pick up the battle and understand the consequences of a loss of the 2nd or any Amendment.
Major Kevin N. Harbison, CAP
Major, USA (RET)
Commander
Greater Nashua Composite Squadron

nicktavegia

My Dad was a State Representative in Connecticut when I was born and he had a 100% rating with the NRA. 
Semper Vigilans,
C/MSgt Nicholas Tavegia
Flight Sergeant Bartow Etowah Composite Squadron
Cadet of the Quarter


Flying Pig


DakRadz

#17
Quote from: Flying Pig on July 23, 2010, 02:25:14 PM
Nick,

I heard about your day at the range.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRgYtp3HfvY&feature=related

Okay, ouch. And it seems they tried to warn her- looks like she's got her arms ready to attempt to handle the recoil... And they did, after all, tell her to put her tongue back in her mouth- that could cause a bloody problem!

Congrats to Nick on being safe- I would remind everyone he is GAWG and at least trying to be more educated, even if not applicable to CAP  ;) :clap:


EDIT: P.S. Flying Pig- after several months of seeing your posts, I just now got what your username meant.... XD

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: TCMajor on July 22, 2010, 02:19:13 PM
When I was growing up in New Hampshire, we used to be able to carry our hunting riffles to school in our trucks during hunting season.  Heck we had a shooting range on school property.  Now?  The feds have made it a felony.

What's the use of a gun in your pickup while you're at school anyway? Maybe if parents didn't put their kids on Adderall the first chance they get, things could be different. Do you also advocate having a .50 Cal Machine Gun mounted in the back of that pickup? Because I'm sure the Founding Fathers imagined such weapons and wanted us all to have one.

davidsinn

Quote from: USAFaux2004 on July 23, 2010, 04:22:29 PM
Do you also advocate having a .50 Cal Machine Gun mounted in the back of that pickup? Because I'm sure the Founding Fathers imagined such weapons and wanted us all to have one.

You're actually right. The purpose of the 2nd was for the common man to posses military grade hardware to be able to form a militia to protect the country. The concept of standing armies was a distasteful one for the founders.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: davidsinn on July 23, 2010, 04:32:56 PM
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on July 23, 2010, 04:22:29 PM
Do you also advocate having a .50 Cal Machine Gun mounted in the back of that pickup? Because I'm sure the Founding Fathers imagined such weapons and wanted us all to have one.

You're actually right. The purpose of the 2nd was for the common man to posses military grade hardware to be able to form a militia to protect the country. The concept of standing armies was a distasteful one for the founders.

Can you show me some historical documents stating that? I know we were hard for cash back then, so militias were the way to go, but is there anything official about standing armies being distasteful?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I don't agree with laws like we had/now have in Chicago, but there has to be a line. Back in 1776 Muskets were the top of the line. Revolvers and Semi-Automatics were in the future. So were Machine guns. Maybe if the Founders knew, they could have said "any and all arms", however they did not, and I personally believe there is no need to have machine guns for "personal use/safety/anti-government paranoia".

TCMajor

USAFaux2004.

The rifles were there because we had been hunting in the morning and went to school from the hunting area, then were headed back to hunt after school.  When school, home, and the hunting area are separated by great distance it makes more sense to go to school straight away.  In my case it would have been a 50-mile round trip to drop the rifle off.  So the rifles stayed in the truck.   Those people that do not live in a rural areas, don't understand these things yet continually try and regulate our lives based on their concept of what is right.  I think Hank Williams had a line in a song about that.

And yes, the Second Amendment was meant to allow individuals to have military grade weapons.   The real purpose though was so the States could maintain a standing militia to protect themselves from excessive power of the Federal Government. You have to understand the mindset of the founding fathers.  The last thing they wanted was a strong central government.  That is why they chose a "Federal Republic."   Remember, the Federal Government exists because the States exist, not the other way around.  Read Jefferson, Adams, and the other Federalist papers and gain an understand of how they intended it to work.  Guess what?  It's broke! 
Major Kevin N. Harbison, CAP
Major, USA (RET)
Commander
Greater Nashua Composite Squadron

DakRadz

I first address the mods- we are somewhat off-topic, but it's a friendly and educational debate right now. Just saying. And it relates back to the topic. So, still a mod's call, but maybe we can continue.

USAFaux, I present you with two lines of the Constitution:

Quote from: United States ConstitutionTo raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy

Navy (with Coast Guards not so much utilized) being mostly because of the British preying on us, trade lanes, coastal protection, etc.- plus a Navy couldn't really invade or attack land at the time.

Armies weren't popular BITD- there's a reason one of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights specifically addresses quartering troops. British forces had done a lot to provoke and even validate the reasons why NOT to keep an army, other than a militias (which was redesignated as National Guard).
Look up the history of Generals and Admiral ranks- heck, the rank of Navy Captain (O-6, Bird insignia, equivalent to Colonel) was a struggle, with Commodore being preferred for quite some time- Many of our upper echelon ranks were made of international neccessity, so our commanders were not subservient to other country's.

TCMajor

DakRadz,

  Agreed on your comment to the mods.  Maybe it should be moved to the Lobby.  Not sure, but the discussion is worth having.
Major Kevin N. Harbison, CAP
Major, USA (RET)
Commander
Greater Nashua Composite Squadron

Eclipse

Kids hunting on the way to school is hardly a "well regulated militia" - the argument pretty much falls apart right there.

"That Others May Zoom"

TCMajor

#25
I don't see how the argument breaks down at all.  The law says that I have a right to posses the weapon, regardless of the reason, I still have a right to posses the weapon.   As long as I carry out legal acts with it.   So I do  not see how the argument falls appart.  It is an individual right based on the need of a Sovereign State.  Mine happens to be New Hampshire. 

Here is Article 2a from the NH State Constitution: [Art.] 2-a. [The Bearing of Arms.] All persons have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, their families, their property and the state.
Major Kevin N. Harbison, CAP
Major, USA (RET)
Commander
Greater Nashua Composite Squadron

CAP Marine

Apparently Eclipse never saw Red Dawn. Don't worry, it is being remade!

TCMajor

Awsome Movie!  Who is in the remake?
Major Kevin N. Harbison, CAP
Major, USA (RET)
Commander
Greater Nashua Composite Squadron

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: CAP Marine on July 23, 2010, 09:55:01 PM
Apparently Eclipse never saw Red Dawn. Don't worry, it is being remade!

Red Dawn is pretty much the reason the argument is flat these days...

A half dozen teenagers or a division of angry, evil Russian commies? My money on the Commies.

DakRadz

My money is on the teenagers.

TCMajor

You seem to forget what a ragtag bunch of Afghans did to the Soviet Army in the 80s.  Besides it was Nicaraguans that came across the border with the help of the Soviets.  The kids taking on the invaders was simply the surface plot.  You have to really watch the movie to see the subplot.  You do know that the first thing tyrannical governments take from the people is their weapons. 
Major Kevin N. Harbison, CAP
Major, USA (RET)
Commander
Greater Nashua Composite Squadron