2011 AFRCC annual report

[RiverAux]

The 2011 AFRCC annual report is out and available at http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-120316-039.pdf

Big year for AZ Wing (14 saves) and NHQ (15 saves). 

Not really much new in it -- same trends as the last few years.  Interesting that even after all the ELT switchouts that the percentage of false activations is about the same as it always was.  Of course the difference being is that they can resolve almost all of them without launching resources.  More efficient, but with obvious impacts on CAP. 

The other ongoing trend is that a very large percentage of saves are coming from missing persons missions -- the one area that CAP is apparently still not interested in getting seriously involved in.  "Rescue" - meaning picking someone up from a known location and taking them in was the biggest save producer-- not a CAP strongsuit. 

[PHall]

The 2011 AFRCC annual report is out and available at http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-120316-039.pdf

Big year for AZ Wing (14 saves) and NHQ (15 saves). 

Not really much new in it -- same trends as the last few years.  Interesting that even after all the ELT switchouts that the percentage of false activations is about the same as it always was.  Of course the difference being is that they can resolve almost all of them without launching resources.  More efficient, but with obvious impacts on CAP. 

The other ongoing trend is that a very large percentage of saves are coming from missing persons missions -- the one area that CAP is apparently still not interested in getting seriously involved in. "Rescue" - meaning picking someone up from a known location and taking them in was the biggest save producer-- not a CAP strongsuit.

Not a CAP strongsuit because "Rescue" usually requires much more training and equipment then CAP can provide.
In California the "rescue" missions usually go to the County Sheriff Rescue teams because they're much better trained and equipped then CAP is.
Mostly because they have a much more stable source of funding then CAP does.

[RiverAux]

Well, I think we can safely assume that the "Rescue" situations they're talking about are things like helicopters picking people off mountains or transporting patients.  Not in CAP's wheelhouse, which was my point.

But, if you're trying to make some statement about CAP just doing search, but not rescue (an argument often heard here), I'd disagree.  And that isn't the context that they're using in that report anyway. 

[Rogovin]

How is national tasked with saves?  Is that inter-wing stuff, or special events and such?

-Rogovin

[RiverAux]

Probably the dude that does all the cell phone analysis. 

[sardak]

Yes, the cell phone dude, Justin Ogden, and the radar dudes, Guy Loughridge and his team. Radar and cell phone requests are listed separately in WMIRS, since AFRCC gets requests for these services from agencies other than CAP.

Mike

[RADIOMAN015]

Well, I think we can safely assume that the "Rescue" situations they're talking about are things like helicopters picking people off mountains or transporting patients.  Not in CAP's wheelhouse, which was my point.

But, if you're trying to make some statement about CAP just doing search, but not rescue (an argument often heard here), I'd disagree.  And that isn't the context that they're using in that report anyway.

I'm confused by your statement above.   CAP is not a rescue organization, we do not have the appropriate equipment or training to do this.  Surely we might be able to be a staffing supplement and it's likely if there was an ELT signal we would have a small DF team accompanying the public safety professional response teams to get to the crash site if it couldn't be seen from the air.

I think in recruiting potential volunteers we have to be VERY careful about what we really do.  Some states are a bit more liberal in allowing CAP to assist with missing person searches.  Unfortunately in my state CAP is primarily an airborne search for missing aircraft & ELT type activations. Anything else is handled by the state police and they have an air wing with helicopters that is extremely effective in lost person searches (in many cases less than 15 minutes after launch from the air base).
RM   

[RiverAux]

The type of "rescue" being mentioned in this part of the report is the sort of thing that CAP doesn't do -- basically transporting patients to hospitals and the like.  Picking sick fishermen up off boats, etc. 

However, that is a different sort of mission from a Search and Rescue where you first have to find them.  When we go on a SAR mission and find the people alive we get the credit for the save even if the National Guard or someone goes out and picks them up. 

No reason to be careful about how we discuss it.  Its pretty darn clear that we're not going to be the ones driving people we've found to the hospital in the ambulance and it is actually irrelevant. 

[PHall]

The type of "rescue" being mentioned in this part of the report is the sort of thing that CAP doesn't do -- basically transporting patients to hospitals and the like.  Picking sick fishermen up off boats, etc. 

However, that is a different sort of mission from a Search and Rescue where you first have to find them.  When we go on a SAR mission and find the people alive we get the credit for the save even if the National Guard or someone goes out and picks them up. 

No reason to be careful about how we discuss it.  Its pretty darn clear that we're not going to be the ones driving people we've found to the hospital in the ambulance and it is actually irrelevant.

You would be surprised. 

[RiverAux]

Oh, we've got ambulances? 

There are, of course, instances where a CAP ground team unassisted brings the search targets in out of the woods.  It does happen and we should train for it. 

Thats why I don't understand folks that get their linguistic underwear in a twist over saying that we do Search and Rescue. 

[PHall]

Oh, we've got ambulances? 

There are, of course, instances where a CAP ground team unassisted brings the search targets in out of the woods.  It does happen and we should train for it. 

Thats why I don't understand folks that get their linguistic underwear in a twist over saying that we do Search and Rescue.

We do Search and Locate. The folks with the equipment and training do the Rescue.

[RiverAux]

Sure, if it requires specialized equipment, vehicles or training.  It doesn't always, you know.  Sometimes they can hop in the van and drive back to civilization with us. 

[PHall]

Sure, if it requires specialized equipment, vehicles or training.  It doesn't always, you know.  Sometimes they can hop in the van and drive back to civilization with us.

They tend to not do that after they've flown into the side of a mountain.

And out here in California, we almost never get involved with missing person searches. The Sheriff Departments usually have that little chore handled.

[RiverAux]

California Wing is not the US and very few AFRCC missions are crashed airplanes.  Restrictions on CAP use in your state are almost unique.  Everywhere else most counties do not have SAR teams.  I would feel confident placing money on CAP being the only organized SAR team in most counties with a CAP unit. 

[cap235629]

California Wing is not the US and very few AFRCC missions are crashed airplanes.  Restrictions on CAP use in your state are almost unique.  Everywhere else most counties do not have SAR teams.  I would feel confident placing money on CAP being the only organized SAR team in most counties with a CAP unit.

+1

we are slowly assisting the county we are based in with establishing a team.  We have even hosted NASAR courses to get people trained

[PHall]

Point I was trying to make is that every wing has different conditions to work in.
Some areas are flat as a board and others are nothing but mountains.
Some states allow CAP to do what it wants and in some states CAP is severely restricted in what they're allowed to do.
(i.e. In California the Sheriff of each County is responsible for all search are rescue activities in their county. CAP operates in their county at their pleasure.)

Missing person searches out here on the West Coast usually involve people lost either in the mountains or in the desert.
Other agencies are usually better equipped for these kind of missions then we are.

[Spaceman3750]

Other agencies are usually better equipped for these kind of missions then we are.

While I don't think we should be doing high-angle work, there's no reason why we can't be working mountainous or desert terrain. Basically we can't search more than a mile from the coffee pot?

[Eclipse]

Basically we can't search more than a mile from the coffee pot?

I can take my coffee pot with me...

(just sayin')

[NavLT]

As is usual the amount of missions a wing gets involved in is a command decision.  Some commanders only launch missions when AFRCC calls them, some go out and actively work out MOUs and generate missions.

I frequently get asked in my group and wing, why do I always read about some wings going out and saving lives and we don't do seem to do that here.  The answer is other wings go out and get the missions.