Whatever ever happened to "Officer" vs "Senior Member" ??

[Flying Pig]

Hows-about..."Hey Joe..."

[Parsifal]

I wish there were a general, not-so-clumsy, military-style term for CAP members regardless of rank.  In the early days of military aviation, pilots and aircrew members were sometimes referred to as "Air Patrolmen," especially when military aviation was considered primarily a reconaissance asset. Today, the term "Air Patrolman" is often applied to law enforcement pilots, but perhaps we could borrow and apply that term (or something similar) to senior members.

[jeders]

geez....I just wanted to know if referring to our "Senior Members" as "Officers" had ever gotten past that memo that Pineda wrote back in 2006. I simple "nope" would have sufficed =)

Welcome to CAPTalk.

I also vote that we leave it alone. More of a solution looking for a problem type thing anyway.

[Flying Pig]

If I was ever officially referred to as an Air Patrolman I would consider self mutilation!  

[wuzafuzz]

If I was ever officially referred to as an Air Patrolman I would consider self mutilation!

The PC Police would shudder at the use of the gender specific Air Patrolman title.  From this point forward thou shalt use the term Skyborne Patrolperson.  Unless you can think of something even worse.   :angel:

Seriously, what's wrong with just being CAP members?  Within that we have cadets and everyone else.  The rest is just fluff, and of little import to outsiders.

[Flying Pig]

OH CRAP...I didnt even think about how insensitive this title would have been to our female, gay, lesbian and transgender officers.  Again, like usual, I was only thinking about how it would affect me.  I apologize.  You have to forgive me, I was raised in public school.

[brasda91]

in certain situations saying "Officer" is best.

Sure, if you're introducing a prospective adult to the squadron.  After that, you expalin the youth members are refered to as Cadets and the adult members are refered to as Senior Members.

[brasda91]

Internally, we need a term that describes a particular group -- non-Cadets -- because many regulations make a distinction between Cadets and non-Cadets.   I've been saying "Senior Member" for close to 30 years now, so it's second nature - but in that time I never made the illogical leap to "senior citizen", although I suppose I can envision it being made, I consider it as something of a stretch.   I've never heard of someone being offended or presumed to be elderly because they were a member of a "Senior Staff" or as a "Senior Advisor" or "Senior Vice President".   

Externally, you can describe members as befits the situation and their makeup.   "This is my staff", etc.   


Quite frankly, my vote would be to leave it as-is and let those who make incorrect assumptions be incorrect.

When I talk about CAP to someone outside of the organization, I commonly refer to the other senior members as my staff.

[N Harmon]

I wish there were a general, not-so-clumsy, military-style term for CAP members regardless of rank.

"Volunteer"

It has military history, isn't clumsy, and is fairly general. But then, "member" isn't so bad. It's what the Coast Guard refers to their people as.

[Smokey]

The "Senior Squadron" term reared it's ugly head again recently for my unit (a senior sq).

An article appeared in a local paper about CAP and referenced us and an upcoming SAREX.  The sidebar invited folks to come to the SAREX and see what we were about.   A few folks showed up and some of them commented that they thought the squadron was restricted to "Senior citizens".   I wonder how many folks (those not yet receiving social security) failed to show up because they thought the squadron was only for the "old" folks?  How many potential members did we loose because of the "senior" connotation?

I base this on the comments from  three of the folks I personally spoke to (that showed up).  All thought the SAREX involved only senior citizens and they were surprised to see young folks particiapting.

[Eclipse]

Then change the name - they should all be composites anyway...

[NC Hokie]

Then change the name - they should all be composites anyway...

Do regulations allow us to simply drop the Senior/Composite/Cadet designation when dealing with outside organizations such as the press?

[Eclipse]

Then change the name - they should all be composites anyway...

Do regulations allow us to simply drop the Senior/Composite/Cadet designation when dealing with outside organizations such as the press?

The T&Q would probably say "no", but what's to stop you from just referring to the unit as the "x" Squadron?  This is why I'm not a fan of have the designator on unit insignia, because it really doesn't mean anything outside CAP, and even internally a lot of people just ignore the mandates anyway.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Then change the name - they should all be composites anyway...

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I have served in composite, senior and cadet squadrons.

The composite and cadet squadrons weren't radically different from one another.

The senior squadron was, in ways I've detailed elsewhere.

Why not just use a numeric/wing designator; i.e., 100 (New York) Squadron, CAP?

I still wish we could find an adequate term to replace "senior member," which I've loathed ever since I first joined CAP.  A new second looie in my unit was very glad to get her butterbars because she didn't like "Senior Member."  I haven't yet found anyone who does like the term.

I've thought of several, but they all have negatives:

Officer Candidate (like the military OCS)
Civil Airman (which would beg the question, "what is an UN-Civil Airman?")
Officer Trainee
Officer Cadet (which would be confused with the cadet program)
Aspirant (which is what the French Air Force uses for its officer candidates; you can imagine how that would be used phonetically)

The USN Sea Cadets use "Instructor" for their adult members who haven't pinned on Ensign yet; that might be a possibility.

As far as "officers" v. "senior members," I've always understood it informally that 2nd Lt. and up are "officers."  However, all non-cadet personnel, from NCO's, to the reviled (by me) SMWOG, to Flight Officers, to 2nd Lt. and above, are all also "senior members."

[MIKE]

Auxiliarist. 

[JoeTomasone]

Auxiliarist. 

Meter Reader.   

[SarDragon]

Tick. Tick. Tick.

[Spike]

So when a member is promoted to Second Lieutenant is he or she a "senior member second lieutenant" or just a "second lieutenant"??

Example: "I would like to see Senior Member Second Lieutenant Michelle Jones Miller, when she becomes available".

I still see no reason for not referring to Adults who hold Officer grade be referred to as "Officers".  NCO's are totally different story here.  New Members can be addressed as Mister or Miss. 

[CS]

Just as a point of information, an NCO is an officer (albeit non-commissioned).  All of our ranks/grades in CAP are officer ranks/grades for 'senior members' and are non-commissioned, except if there is no rank/grade.

[Al Sayre]

Even SMWOG could be considered Officer Candidates...