Police Airforce training

[Hoorah]

Training like chasing a suspector self defense etc except firearm training. What are you thoughts about CAP cadets training under their belt for it.

[PhoenixRisen]

Not sure of the exact contents of the training, but there's a USAF Security Forces familiarization course in the works:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8749.0

As for something outside of a fun, training activity though, definitely not.  We're not a law enforcement organization.

[Hoorah]

Sorry no offense I dissagree partly cause the chasing someone is an excellent idea  Cause like drill when falling in the fall in faster cause the person call commands is an suspect.

[PhoenixRisen]

Sorry no offense I dissagree partly cause the chasing someone is an excellent idea  Cause like drill when falling in the fall in faster cause the person call commands is an suspect.

Could you please elaborate on how chasing a violator of the law has to do with falling into a flight for drill?  I'm not understanding your connection, here.

[DC]

You lost me with your first post...

[Hoorah]

Because when you chase a suspect they say stuff to you so when the person commanding saying commands like a suspect ties into drill cause helps you fall in quicker when running

[Major Lord]

Is this post in Esperanto or some other vaguely English-sounding language?

Major Lord

[NCRblues]

Actually in D and C, when a flight sergeant says fall in, you do not run, you walk with a purpose.  As for the training you speak of, it would be worthless to cap. You could never, ever use it. In several states, you have to be at least 18 to make a citizen's arrest, plus most police departments ask people not to chase suspects. If you want to do law enforcement experience, join the police explorers.

[Flying Pig]

Sorry no offense I dissagree partly cause the chasing someone is an excellent idea  Cause like drill when falling in the fall in faster cause the person call commands is an suspect.

Play tag. Same thing, less dangerous.

It sounds like your interested in Explorer type training but trying to incorporate it into CAP.  I think it would be good training for any cadet or anyone for that matter,  but CAP isn't the avenue to provide it. 

Your posts related to this topic are hard to understand.

[Pylon]

As was mentioned above, if you're interested in learning more about law enforcement careers in the CAP setting, check out the above linked USAF Security Forces Familiarization Course activity.

If you're interested in learning more about law enforcement and perhaps partaking in some of their training, but not necessarily in a CAP context, try to look for a police explorer program in your area.

[Flying Pig]

Because when you chase a suspect they say stuff to you so when the person commanding saying commands like a suspect ties into drill cause helps you fall in quicker when running

Ive chased a lot of suspects, and nothing they have said to me during the chase had anything to do with CAP!

[High Speed Low Drag]

I second that of FlyingPig.  With over 17 years of street (patrol) experience, (including 7 years in the area where "Gang War, 'Banging in Little Rock" was filmed, never, ever, not once, have I ever used any commands, sounds, etc, that would pertain to CAP.

On the other hand, it sounds like you have a strong intrest in law enforcement.  I encourage you to contact your local police or sheriff and see if they have a "ride-along" program.  A lot of agencies do, some even allow you to ride if you are under 18 (but with parental permission and waivers).  I don't know of too many places that still have the police explorer program, but still check it out.

Lt. G. St. Pierre, LRPD

[Eclipse]

Don't be this kid...

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/01/14-year-old-boy-impersonates-chicago-cop.html

[Johnny Yuma]

?

After the original post I'm lost, and I kinda admit to wanting to stay that way...

[Gunner C]

Ich habe gar nicht versteht.  Kanst du etwas auf english sehen, Y'all? (A little Southern German lingo)

[NCRblues]

Es sieht aus, dass jemand ihre Zeit nicht nahm und ganze ihre Rechtschreibung meines Führers überprüfte

[flyboy53]

An Air Force Security Police familiarization course? Why not! It's as close to special forces as I ever wanted to get and I can guarantee that there's a lot of air base ground defense-related tactics and skills that would benefit ground teams or those personnel that end up going to the EAA thing. Air Force Security Police do more than just write tickets. It would put a whole new meaning to that blue beret that people like to wear in this program....like you'll never tell me that a CAP member really earned it.

[Flying Pig]

The berets mean different things to each organization.  Combat Controllers could tell Guardian Angels they didnt really earn the scarlet berets they wear too.
Its just a symbol.  I know most Marines (myself included) think berets are for European women.  But heh, if its your thing go ahead.

[DC]

An Air Force Security Police familiarization course? Why not! It's as close to special forces as I ever wanted to get and I can guarantee that there's a lot of air base ground defense-related tactics and skills that would benefit ground teams or those personnel that end up going to the EAA thing. Air Force Security Police do more than just write tickets. It would put a whole new meaning to that blue beret that people like to wear in this program....like you'll never tell me that a CAP member really earned it.

A Security Forces Fam Course already exists, or at least one is supposed to happen this winter, as several people have pointed out to the OP. ..

[flyguy06]

Is this post in Esperanto or some other vaguely English-sounding language?

Major Lord

They're cadets man. Leave em alone

[DC]

Is this post in Esperanto or some other vaguely English-sounding language?

Major Lord

They're cadets man. Leave em alone

That doesn't excuse someone making an unintelligible post. Cadets have to be at least 12, they should know how to write a coherent sentence by then.

[NCRblues]

An Air Force Security Police familiarization course? Why not! It's as close to special forces as I ever wanted to get and I can guarantee that there's a lot of air base ground defense-related tactics and skills that would benefit ground teams or those personnel that end up going to the EAA thing. Air Force Security Police do more than just write tickets. It would put a whole new meaning to that blue beret that people like to wear in this program....like you'll never tell me that a CAP member really earned it.

HOW?? I have been through security forces training, and the air base ground defense you speak of. What out of that training would cadets or SM use on a mission? Setting up fields of fire? no, ambush's? nope, keeping noise and light discipline? nope, bunker construction? cwire placement? claymores? im just at a loss of what would be useful to cap out of this, other than a few cadets that now think their cops...

[davidsinn]

Is this post in Esperanto or some other vaguely English-sounding language?

Major Lord

They're cadets man. Leave em alone

That doesn't excuse someone making an unintelligible post. Cadets have to be at least 12, they should know how to write a coherent sentence by then.

Or by 17 as his profile states he is.

[DC]

An Air Force Security Police familiarization course? Why not! It's as close to special forces as I ever wanted to get and I can guarantee that there's a lot of air base ground defense-related tactics and skills that would benefit ground teams or those personnel that end up going to the EAA thing. Air Force Security Police do more than just write tickets. It would put a whole new meaning to that blue beret that people like to wear in this program....like you'll never tell me that a CAP member really earned it.

HOW?? I have been through security forces training, and the air base ground defense you speak of. What out of that training would cadets or SM use on a mission? Setting up fields of fire? no, ambush's? nope, keeping noise and light discipline? nope, bunker construction? cwire placement? claymores? im just at a loss of what would be useful to cap out of this, other than a few cadets that now think their cops...

Perhaps because the Cadet Program involves Air Force and military career exploration?!

I don't know of any cadets that have left PJOC or SUPTFC thinking they are Pararescuemen or fighter pilots...

ES is only one third of CAP, some people seriously need to realize that fact.

[NCRblues]

Actually if you read his post, he clearly states "and I can guarantee that there's a lot of air base ground defense-related tactics and skills that would benefit ground teams or those personnel that end up going to the EAA thing" Well, first off I do very little ES, I am mainly a cadet programs guy. There is no real call for cap es around where I am from. I realize that es is only one third, I still, as the post was wrote see no use for this type of tanning. I have seen cadets return from pjoc and other ncsa with changed attitudes, as others have as well. Why would this course be any different? But as to flyboy1's post, I still would like to know how air base ground defense relates to search and rescue?

[flyguy06]

An Air Force Security Police familiarization course? Why not! It's as close to special forces as I ever wanted to get and I can guarantee that there's a lot of air base ground defense-related tactics and skills that would benefit ground teams or those personnel that end up going to the EAA thing. Air Force Security Police do more than just write tickets. It would put a whole new meaning to that blue beret that people like to wear in this program....like you'll never tell me that a CAP member really earned it.

HOW?? I have been through security forces training, and the air base ground defense you speak of. What out of that training would cadets or SM use on a mission? Setting up fields of fire? no, ambush's? nope, keeping noise and light discipline? nope, bunker construction? cwire placement? claymores? im just at a loss of what would be useful to cap out of this, other than a few cadets that now think their cops...

Perhaps because the Cadet Program involves Air Force and military career exploration?!

I don't know of any cadets that have left PJOC or SUPTFC thinking they are Pararescuemen or fighter pilots...

ES is only one third of CAP, some people seriously need to realize that fact.

:clap:

[DC]

Actually if you read his post, he clearly states "and I can guarantee that there's a lot of air base ground defense-related tactics and skills that would benefit ground teams or those personnel that end up going to the EAA thing" Well, first off I do very little ES, I am mainly a cadet programs guy. There is no real call for cap es around where I am from. I realize that es is only one third, I still, as the post was wrote see no use for this type of tanning. I have seen cadets return from pjoc and other ncsa with changed attitudes, as others have as well. Why would this course be any different? But as to flyboy1's post, I still would like to know how air base ground defense relates to search and rescue?

Okay, I apologize. I didn't fully read the post you were replying to, never mind. 

My rant still stands though, for those out there bent on ignoring anything in CAP that doesn't involve ES.

[Dad2-4]

As to the OP......um......
Wo bu zi dao ni sho shen ma.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Training like chasing a suspector self defense etc except firearm training. What are you thoughts about CAP cadets training under their belt for it.

Back on task.....

I do agree that self defense is good knowledge to have, I would also agree that knowledge in the law is good to have, however comma.......

I do not agree that cadets need police training or security forces training.  I work in a security forces/healthcare industry (ok, i'm a hospital public safety officer).  Everyday i am dealing with the knowledge of suicidal tendancies, alcoholism properties and the legal ramifications if we let them leave.  Do they, yep all the time, we have to stop them and sometimes get into a tussle because they won't listen.

In CAP ES, we are not law enforcement for a reason.  A member would most likely get hurt/injured/worse if you go about commanding a suspect.  Thats why you give details to those with PD badge.

[NCRblues]

And heaven forbid someone try and apprehend or command a suspect wile on an air force numbered mission, because you know some lawyer out there would scream Posse Comitatus...not saying it would be upheld but that's one headache cap should avoid...

[flyboy53]

I never said anything about combat tactics. In my era of SPs, that was a three week orientation at a place called Camp Bullis, Texas. There was additonal follow-up training in heavier weapons elsewhere (my special weapons teams assignment was the M-60) and some were encouraged to go on to air assault or jump school. I blew a knee and was re-trained into public affairs were my SP backround was an asset and would follow me the rest of my career. I had been destined for SAC and nuclear weapons.  I ended up with 25 months of the best assignment in my Air Force career: the Alaskan Air Coimmand. There were three separate career areas then: weapons security, LEs and dog handlers (you had to be interviewed and auditioned with a dog); and the graduates of the program included people like Chuck Norris. I'm of that SP era when the morale was pretty low. Because of the need and some bad-looking statistical reports, that was also a time when people were involuntarily placed in the program after basic training. So, to improve morale, they took the blue beret from Combat Controllers and created a qualification badge that, at the time, was equal to an expert infantry badge...the training then was at the same place. Everybody then aspired to be part of the SAC Elite Guard or the USAF Honor Guard. It was the idea of the morale, team work, establishing security parimeters, radio and compass tactics, that I thought would be beneficial to cadets or senior members...as well as the pride they would learn about their uniforms. Those of you who are detractors should realize that every kid who joins this program doesn't necessarly want to fly. They have career asperations that include anything from medicine to police work. I know of a former CAP cadet that just retired as a NY State Trooper. I do agree, however, that some cadets come back from some of the National Activiies with big chips on their sholders and can be annoying to work with at times.

[NCRblues]

I never said anything about combat tactics. In my era of SPs, that was a three week orientation at a place called Camp Bullis, Texas. There was additonal follow-up training in heavier weapons elsewhere (my special weapons teams assignment was the M-60) and some were encouraged to go on to air assault or jump school. I blew a knee and was re-trained into public affairs were my SP backround was an asset and would follow me the rest of my career. I had been destined for SAC and nuclear weapons.  I ended up with 25 months of the best assignment in my Air Force career: the Alaskan Air Coimmand. There were three separate career areas then: weapons security, LEs and dog handlers (you had to be interviewed and auditioned with a dog); and the graduates of the program included people like Chuck Norris. I'm of that SP era when the morale was pretty low. Because of the need and some bad-looking statistical reports, that was also a time when people were involuntarily placed in the program after basic training. So, to improve morale, they took the blue beret from Combat Controllers and created a qualification badge that, at the time, was equal to an expert infantry badge...the training then was at the same place. Everybody then aspired to be part of the SAC Elite Guard or the USAF Honor Guard. It was the idea of the morale, team work, establishing security parimeters, radio and compass tactics, that I thought would be beneficial to cadets or senior members...as well as the pride they would learn about their uniforms. Those of you who are detractors should realize that every kid who joins this program doesn't necessarly want to fly. They have career asperations that include anything from medicine to police work. I know of a former CAP cadet that just retired as a NY State Trooper. I do agree, however, that some cadets come back from some of the National Activiies with big chips on their sholders and can be annoying to work with at times.

I whole heartedly agree with you on the land navigation, security perimeters, radio educate, and uniform pride would be pluses to this type of training. But I foresee a "security forces/security police" ncsa, or "police" training as potential backfire, larger than other ncsa/training programs. Security forces training was some of the best (and greatest time) of my life, but for cadets that are easily influenced, cop Corse would just be bad.  As has been stated several times cap has no room for LE, it's not what we do. If cadets want to experience LE lifestyles, send them to police explorers, if that's not available see if local agencies allow ride along.
(Side note, the air force is starting to get rid of the LE side of the house, we had a commander's call last week and were briefed that all ACC and soon to be stood up global strike command will be contracting out the LE patrol and desk Sgt functions)

[Flying Pig]

^Yup. Marines are doing the same thing and going with civilian contract police.  In fact they are already hiring for it.

[Major Lord]

And heaven forbid someone try and apprehend or command a suspect wile on an air force numbered mission, because you know some lawyer out there would scream Posse Comitatus...not saying it would be upheld but that's one headache cap should avoid...

While it is possible that the Posse Comitatus Act could be used to prosecute a CAP or Air Force member for directing that CAP be used in routine law enforcement ( and I point out here that there has Never been a prosecution for a violation of the PCA) Nothing in the PCA prevents members of the military from enjoyment of their statutory or common law rights to make citizens arrrests, Air Force assigned missions notwithstanding. This is clearly spelled out in DOD regulations. In some States ( California for one) it is actually a crime to refuse aid to a Law Enforcement Officer when so directed in the act of making an arrest. Our organization has bought into the idea that CAP is subject to the PCA, a legal concept that remains untested and unclear in its implementation. Pretending that our border missions, for instance, are not direct support of routine law enforcement is just sophistry.

Major Lord

[Flying Pig]

I for one have accepted a citizens arrest from an on-duty military member.  An Army Recruiter who witnessed a shoplifting.  He witnessed the theft, confronted, chaesed and caught the suspect and detained him until the po-po (me) arrived.  He signed the citation indicating he was making the arrest and I, as the officer accepted the arrest and booked the turd into jail.  He went to jail because he was also under the influence of meth otherwise he would have been released at the scene with the cite.  Nothing about the recruiter being in the military EVER came up.  So I think CAP can let go the idea that they will be prosecuted for anything.  In fact, this recruiter got an Army Achievement Medal for it.

[RiverAux]

I had thought that the concept of "citizen arrest" was basically a myth.

[Flying Pig]

Nope.  We do them quite often. Anytime a misdemeanor is no committed in my presence someone who witnessed the act needs to do the citizens arrest.  There are certain exceptions, misdemeanor domestic violence is one.

Disturbing the Peace, Shoplifting and other petty thefts, misdemeanor battery, etc. all need a citizens arrest.  On most police citations there is a place for the officers signature and there will also be a box titled something like "Person Making the Arrest".  This is where the person making the citizens arrest would sign the cite indicating they were the ones who actually made the arrest. All the officer did was accept the arrest and do the paperwork.  Now, if I determine you were wrong, and no crime was actually committed, I am not required to accept the arrest and will release the person.  That person could then come back and sue you, the citizen for false arrest.