What Would It Take for CAP to Be the Full-Time USAF Auxiliary?

Started by Guardrail, February 08, 2007, 02:13:21 AM

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Guardrail

I know that CAP right now is the Air Force Auxiliary only during Air Force assigned missions.  What would it take for CAP to be the full-time Auxiliary of the USAF?

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"


Guardrail


JohnKachenmeister

Yes.  By BOTH us and the Air Force.  AND a plan to use us full time, while still fulfilling our other Congressionally-mandated missions.
Another former CAP officer

Major Carrales

To be a true full-time Auxiliary, aside from an act of Congress, it would take different dedication from all of us.  Everyone would have to deploy on ELTs  everytime...on every mission EVERY TIME...attend ALL TRAINING and there would have to be a stricter interpretation of EVERYTHING. 

Everyone, would have to be ASSIGNED their roles based on the needs of the UNIT not the needs of the INDIVIDUAL.

All the strict examples of plans proposed here would have to come true because FULL-TIME AUXILIARY means FULL TIME dedication.  I would mean getting out of work to fulfill the missions.

It would be like being in the USAF Reserve, but without pay.   

Is everyone here ready for that commitment?  Can everyone handle it?

It would require changes, now...put on your "BLACK HAT" (Dr Dr Bono's thinking style that projects forward on a plan and tries to imagine Negatives for mitigation?) and see what consequences would exist. 

Can we exist with those consequences?  If so, how many? If not, what will make the organization able to be a FULL TIME Auxiliary.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

Guardrail

Quote from: Major Carrales on February 08, 2007, 03:55:25 AM
To be a true full-time Auxiliary, aside from an act of Congress, it would take different dedication from all of us.  Everyone would have to deploy on ELTs  everytime...on every mission EVERY TIME...attend ALL TRAINING and there would have to be a stricter interpretation of EVERYTHING. 

Everyone, would have to be ASSIGNED their roles based on the needs of the UNIT not the needs of the INDIVIDUAL.

All the strict examples of plans proposed here would have to come true because FULL-TIME AUXILIARY means FULL TIME dedication.  I would mean getting out of work to fulfill the missions.

It would be like being in the USAF Reserve, but without pay.   

Is this what CAP was like when it was the full time auxiliary of the Air Force?

RiverAux

Not at all.  There is very little different about most of what CAP does now compared to what it did prior to 2000. 

lordmonar

Quote from: Guardrail on February 08, 2007, 04:08:29 AM
Quote from: Major Carrales on February 08, 2007, 03:55:25 AM
To be a true full-time Auxiliary, aside from an act of Congress, it would take different dedication from all of us.  Everyone would have to deploy on ELTs  everytime...on every mission EVERY TIME...attend ALL TRAINING and there would have to be a stricter interpretation of EVERYTHING. 

Everyone, would have to be ASSIGNED their roles based on the needs of the UNIT not the needs of the INDIVIDUAL.

All the strict examples of plans proposed here would have to come true because FULL-TIME AUXILIARY means FULL TIME dedication.  I would mean getting out of work to fulfill the missions.

It would be like being in the USAF Reserve, but without pay.   

Is this what CAP was like when it was the full time auxiliary of the Air Force?
Not since the war.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Earhart1971

Quote from: Guardrail on February 08, 2007, 02:13:21 AM
I know that CAP right now is the Air Force Auxiliary only during Air Force assigned missions.  What would it take for CAP to be the full-time Auxiliary of the USAF?

Yes lots of money would be needed, but the infrastructure is there, rather than reinventing the wheel, with a new Civilian Volunteer Program.

That's why a reasonable person would agree CAP needs adequate money (money that would be wasted on a Civilian Volunteer Startup).

You think they can start a Civilian Vol Program for less than a 100 million?

There are several threads now out, dancing around this issue.

The Feds are looking for volunteers,

We are at War

There is no end in sight to the War.

The United States needs, support for bases, homeland security, disaster relief, and border protection.

More National Guard, a larger Army, and more volunteers and axillary.

I think the timing is right.

Civil Air Patrol could rise to the needs.

My plan would be promote a Middle School Program, and from that draw the membership up into the 100s of thousands. Funded by Educational sources.

Then you use viable 100 member units to support other needs.

More Cadets attracts the experienced Seniors back into the program.

I would even say, rotate the kids out of school, 15 years olds and up and let the perform duties on a Base, for weeks at a time, it would help the kids, help education, and make them feel ten feet tall. Probably, it would be the best education they ever had.

In the Civil War, they had 15 year olds and up, in Combat.

And the Senior program, you simply pay like the National Guard for Seniors to go active for weeks, months, or perhaps a year, for certain stateside duties.

Some might volunteer for overseas.

You could double or triple our membership in rapid time.

Pull back a lot of experienced Seniors that might be useful, and gather in a lot of teenagers that want to help.

The right plan, and the right people to sell this plan, would be needed.

Guardrail

I wonder why the Air Force made CAP the part time auxiliary of the Air Force, anyway? 

Not much has changed about the organization since then. 

isuhawkeye

a lot changed in 2000.

sweveral other threads talk about this in depth


Earhart1971

Quote from: Major Carrales on February 08, 2007, 03:55:25 AM

It would be like being in the USAF Reserve, but without pay.   

If you cannot sell the Government on paying for full time work, then you cannot sell CAP.

Go ahead figure what the government will have to pay new recruits, take them through basic, tech school, and by the way 40% drop out, and don't make it.

One Mitchell award is worth 10 bucks an hour out of school on a one week assignment to an Air Force base.

We still save the Government money.


Eclipse

Quote from: Guardrail on February 08, 2007, 04:34:43 AM
I wonder why the Air Force made CAP the part time auxiliary of the Air Force, anyway? 

Not much has changed about the organization since then. 

You really should do some research.

The reasons are political, legal, and possibly punitive. Its really fun stuff.

The reasoning and legacy in either direction is not black & white by a long shot, and has been beat to hell in these forums.

"That Others May Zoom"

Dragoon

What it would take to be the full time auxiliary.

1.  Complete USAF control of our money and physical assets, all of it.  (because Congress would blame USAF for any mismanagement that CAP does)

2.  Complete USAF control over the hiring and firing of our leadership (and indeed, our members)

3.  We would be restricted to only take on USAF missions.  No more "corporate missions" No more doing work for HLS, the Park Service, etc.  Anyone who wanted us would have to go through the USAF and convince them that the mission was something USAF wanted to get involved in.


It would require virtually no changes at the unit level.  No need to change uniforms or increase training for individual members (those might be nice things, but not required).

davedove

Quote from: Dragoon on February 08, 2007, 01:23:22 PM
3.  We would be restricted to only take on USAF missions.  No more "corporate missions" No more doing work for HLS, the Park Service, etc.  Anyone who wanted us would have to go through the USAF and convince them that the mission was something USAF wanted to get involved in.

That's not completely accurate.  If USAF didn't have enough missions to keep CAP busy all the time, missions for other agencies could be taken.  They would, as you say, have to be approved by AF, and any AF missions would have priority.  There is a LOT of cross agency work being done in the federal government these days.  I know because I deal with it every day.
David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Personnel/PD/Asst. Testing Officer
Ground Team Leader
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003

Dragoon

Quote from: davedove on February 08, 2007, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: Dragoon on February 08, 2007, 01:23:22 PM
3.  We would be restricted to only take on USAF missions.  No more "corporate missions" No more doing work for HLS, the Park Service, etc.  Anyone who wanted us would have to go through the USAF and convince them that the mission was something USAF wanted to get involved in.

That's not completely accurate.  If USAF didn't have enough missions to keep CAP busy all the time, missions for other agencies could be taken.  They would, as you say, have to be approved by AF, and any AF missions would have priority.  There is a LOT of cross agency work being done in the federal government these days.  I know because I deal with it every day.

USAF doesn't care if CAP is busy or not, they care about getting their stuff done.  And anyone else who wanted to use CAP would have to convince USAF to do it. That's what I was getting at - no more going out and just picking up additional work by signing an MOA.

Yup, interagency stuff is done all the time, normally when directed from higher leaders, or when it's in the interest of both parties.  In the past "both parties" meant CAP and the new customer.  And we pretty much always said "yes" if there were dollars in it.  If full USAFAUX came into play, "both" parties would mean USAF and the new customer. 

At the very least, the time it takes to get approval for new missions would go way up, as it would end up getting staffed to a lot more USAF folks.


davedove

Very true.  While things could be put in place to reduce the reaction time, all agreements would be with AF, not CAP.
David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Personnel/PD/Asst. Testing Officer
Ground Team Leader
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003

ZigZag911

Quote from: Dragoon on February 08, 2007, 01:23:22 PM
What it would take to be the full time auxiliary.

1.  Complete USAF control of our money and physical assets, all of it.  (because Congress would blame USAF for any mismanagement that CAP does)

2.  Complete USAF control over the hiring and firing of our leadership (and indeed, our members)

3.  We would be restricted to only take on USAF missions.  No more "corporate missions" No more doing work for HLS, the Park Service, etc.  Anyone who wanted us would have to go through the USAF and convince them that the mission was something USAF wanted to get involved in.


It would require virtually no changes at the unit level.  No need to change uniforms or increase training for individual members (those might be nice things, but not required).

I like it!!

DNall

Quote from: Dragoon on February 08, 2007, 01:23:22 PM
What it would take to be the full time auxiliary.

1.  Complete USAF control of our money and physical assets, all of it.  (because Congress would blame USAF for any mismanagement that CAP does)

2.  Complete USAF control over the hiring and firing of our leadership (and indeed, our members)

3.  We would be restricted to only take on USAF missions.  No more "corporate missions" No more doing work for HLS, the Park Service, etc.  Anyone who wanted us would have to go through the USAF and convince them that the mission was something USAF wanted to get involved in.


It would require virtually no changes at the unit level.  No need to change uniforms or increase training for individual members (those might be nice things, but not required).
That's correct. A lot of people don't understand the changes made in 2000 or why they were made. The shift in Auxiliary status has nothing to do with the affiliation w/ the AF. It's about lawsuits. The AF only has authority over Federal money & AFAMs, but before 2000 they could & would get sued for things they weren't responsible for when they couldn't do anything about it, even when they warned CAP in advance. So now they can only get sued for the times when they are allowed to tell us what to do. That's the total significance of it. It's unfortunate that the idea of our status as an auxiliary organization got confused with auxiliary (assistance/support) missions for the AF.