What to say and when to say it

Started by ElectricPenguin, April 13, 2011, 06:00:49 PM

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Eclipse

Quote from: HGjunkie on April 13, 2011, 09:02:42 PM
That looks like an AF... Lt. Col? Can't tell if he's a Major or Lt. Col.

Most likely a CAP-RAP.

"That Others May Zoom"

ElectricPenguin


I always answered that I am staring at infinity. If they ask what infinity is then that is 10 degrees above the horizon. There really is nothing that anyone can say about that answer.
[/quote]

THANK YOU!!!

ElectricPenguin

Quote from: Ned on April 13, 2011, 08:52:51 PM
I got a PM that said that this does not appear to be Camp Swift, and since Texas apparently requires front license plates, that this may not be TXWG.

Any detectives out there?

Because I do feel like a road trip this summer.

I am going there for summer. I will take a looksie.

jks19714

Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on April 13, 2011, 07:55:10 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on April 13, 2011, 06:37:58 PM
If you are at attention you do not answer because the POA requires silence... ;)
I always answered that I am staring at infinity. If they ask what infinity is then that is 10 degrees above the horizon. There really is nothing that anyone can say about that answer.

I am looking for signs of intelligent life Sir.   ;D

Diamond Flight 88
W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAM3EDE/AAA9SL
Assistant Wing Communications Engineer

indygreg

Just watched the video.  I'd have a real problem with cadet leaders acting like that.  Totally unacceptable. IMHO.

Eclipse

I suspect that once the person who posted this gets wind of the "notoriety", it'll be pulled.  I've already saved it locally for posterity.

It will make an outstanding "don't" for this Friday and RST next year.

"That Others May Zoom"

ElectricPenguin

Quote from: Eclipse on April 13, 2011, 11:19:49 PM
I suspect that once the person who posted this gets wind of the "notoriety", it'll be pulled.  I've already saved it locally for posterity.

It will make an outstanding "don't" for this Friday and RST next year.


They removed it from public view on youtube. Only people with the link can see. Wait...? How did you save it locally???

Eclipse

^ Yes, and the link is above for all to see.  So much for the privacy settings on YouTube.

Use this to save locally: http://www.freemake.com/

"That Others May Zoom"

TCMajor

Unbelievable!  That is one of the most unprofessional, and disrespectful acts I have ever seen a supposed leader carry out on a subordinate.  That young man needs to learn that when someone reports to you and salutes, the salute is to be returned unless you are a pay officer, and we haven't had those in a while.  It probably would not have any effect as he seemed pretty full of himself.  The only person sitting during an in processing should be the clerk keeping the records.  An officer or NCO sitting and yelling like that neither earns nor deserves the respect of those Cadets entrusted to him.  At least when I was in training situations like that, my leaders had the decency to at least walk around me while they were ripping my head off.  But that was Army Basic and WOBC, so there was purpose to the yelling.  We were actually preparing to be warriors.  I just don't get it.   
Major Kevin N. Harbison, CAP
Major, USA (RET)
Commander
Greater Nashua Composite Squadron

manfredvonrichthofen

Just actually watched the video. This is unacceptable! No one should be yelling like this. There is a time and a place to yell, and if no one is in danger then it is not the time to yell. I would love to see those cadets and treat them the same way they were treating their cadets. Were that my encampment, they would be relieved of duty and they would be in my flight.

Robert Hartigan

I have had the pleasure of serving as a cadet commander at an encampment and as an encampment commander. Both assignments were the highlights of my time in CAP. I did not tolerate the behavior in the video when I was a Cadet Commander and I rooted it out and squashed it as an encampment commander. I can not remember if I have shared my position paper on my encampment leadership style. I believe writing one should be a requirement of anyone in command of an encampment because it all starts at the top. Here is mine:


POSITION PAPER
ON
PERSONAL ENCAMPMENT LEADERSHIP STYLE
by Lt. Col. Robert P. Hartigan, CAP
1.   A fair but firm leadership laboratory experience must be omnipresent for all participants. Study and application of management theories and organizational leadership principles must be applied to the administration of the encampment mission. Therefore, the interactional psychology approach to organizational behavior highlights the need to study both the person and the situation.

2.   A person's skills and abilities, personality, perception, attribution, attitudes, values, and Ethics along with the organization of work groups, job tasks, and personal life are all individual contributors to individual behavior. Individual behavior provides valuable information that may be used in social perception.

3.   Characteristics of the perceiver, characteristics of the target and characteristics of the situation combine to form the process of interpreting information about another person however; barriers like stereotyping, first-impression error and projection may give inaccurate information. Extreme care must be taken to avoid primacy effects and first-impression errors with all initial staff interactions given the fact that the first time the staff is assembled as a collaborative team is the day before the encampment starts.

4.   As an encampment commander and a professional officer, I subscribe to McGregor's Theory Y, believing that people want to do the right thing when presented with an option. With a high internal locus of control and a high level of Emotional Intelligence, I am a proponent of organic structures over mechanistic structures for organizations in tactical environments. In addition, I support the inverse for organizations in stable, strategic phases. Lastly, I recognizing the more one lets go, the faster one gains control of a situation because delegation works as long as one fights for feedback!
<><><>#996
GRW   #2717

N Harmon

I think we are all in agreement that the behavior of the Cadet Major (the one on the porch closest to the camera) is unacceptable. But I am curious what specifically everyone sees as crossing the line. I have watched this video through a few times now, paying close attention to a variety of individuals.

Contrast the behavior to that of the cadet officer on the other side of him. Is his acceptable?
NATHAN A. HARMON, Capt, CAP
Monroe Composite Squadron

Cool Mace

All I can say is DUMB! What was the point of all of that? He shouldn't be yelling if he's already lossing his voice. This is just sad.
I'm all for a "tough" encampment, but that's just straight up dumb!

If I had a leader like that at my encampment, I would be laughing too hard and get in trouble. But, after being in for over 9 years, you learn what not to do as well...
CAP is what you make of it. If you don't put anything in to it, you won't get anything out of it.
Eaker #2250
C/Lt Col, Ret.
The cookies and donuts were a lie.

Huey Driver

Another good "infinity". FS-Flight Sergent, F-Flight

FS- "Cadets! What are you looking at!?"

F- "Infinity, Sir!"

FS- "And what is infinity!?"

F- "Infinity is a purple cow in a pink pasture drinking chocolate milk, Sir!"

FS- "And how is that cow, Cadets?"

F- "She eats, sleeps, and loves that chocolate milk! MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"

FS- "Outstanding."  8)
With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right...

Spaceman3750

Quote from: Ned on April 13, 2011, 08:52:51 PM
I got a PM that said that this does not appear to be Camp Swift, and since Texas apparently requires front license plates, that this may not be TXWG.

Any detectives out there?

Because I do feel like a road trip this summer.

PM sent.

Spaceman3750

#35


Bingo. Pegged in more than one way, this is just an example. Arkbird is correct.

EDIT: Did even more digging. What's worse is that the cadet that posted the video was on public affairs staff that year.

MSG Mac

One of the ideas of the encampment is to learn to be a leader. Obviously these cadets confused the Hitler Youth with the Civil Air Patrol. I can't imagine no one stepping in and correcting these two hemorrhoids.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

davidsinn

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 14, 2011, 04:50:22 AM
One of the ideas of the encampment is to learn to be a leader. Obviously these cadets confused the Hitler Youth with the Civil Air Patrol. I can't imagine no one stepping in and correcting these two hemorrhoids.

Godwin.

If I had been within earshot of that, there would have been a serious "come to Jesus meeting."
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

MSG Mac

#38
I expect to drive my grandkids to the Maryland Wing Encampment and don't expect this to occur there.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

addo1

I most definitely have some comments, but will save those for later.

I will, however, displace the idea that this was in Texas Wing. I have been to every encampment for the past many years in TXWG and I can guarantee you that this is not a TX facility. The only locations we have been to in the past few years have been the Alert Facility near Tyler, Texas and Camp Swift Training Facility in Bastrop, Texas. Texas Wing encampments do include some intensity and are definitely not "joy rides" for basics, but do not include things of this nature.
Addison Jaynes, SFO, CAP
Coordinator, Texas Wing International Air Cadet Exchange


National Cadet Advisory Council 2010