OK, first we have uniform issues. Then, we have reports of sweethart contracts issued to "friends". Now, I hear about IG findings on a major investigation are being held up. What is going on?
It seems with each new day comes a new piece of **** being flung (thru me) to the members and friends of CAPTALK. It all seems very strange. It's one thing to play politics in CAP. However, I think it is quite a different game to throw the regulations and core values away for personal gain or self interest. I would be very sad to see the credibility of our leadership disappear. I hope I'm very wrong about all this but, right now, I'm very afraid for CAP; as the preliminary information I have received sounds solid. This is looking more and more like 1999 instead of 2009. What's next? Another OSI/FBI raid on NHQ?
I'm sorry, but I do feel the need to share my concerns with you. I'm not happy with the hearsay. It took much less than this though to make our lives miserable only 10 short years ago. I surely hope this is nothing but BS or way overblown.
FW: I share your concern, in each case and in a couple that I know of which have not been made public.
How about PMing me and we can discuss some of this.
Why are you even posting this?? I doubt many know what you are even talking about!
You Sir, are just causing trouble now. You successfully got everyone's attention, now we will sit in the dark on specifics.
You have successfully shown you still "have friends in high places".
If I were to post what you did, you would be the first to call me out on it and shame me for it.
For shame Sir.
The CAP melodrama has been an ongoing SOAP Opera for several years. I'm not one of those "connected" members but have been reading about the dirty laundry as it appears. I don't know if FW has stumbled on something new or it's more of the same, misuse of funds, unwarranted awards or promotions, questionable terminations and appointments etc. Certainly all of that activity contradicts core values trumpeted by the very people in question.
If someone wants to post facts I'm sure CAPTalk readers will appreciate it.
Quote from: Spike on December 23, 2009, 01:12:51 AM
Why are you even posting this?? I doubt many know what you are even talking about!
You Sir, are just causing trouble now. You successfully got everyone's attention, now we will sit in the dark on specifics.
You have successfully shown you still "have friends in high places".
If I were to post what you did, you would be the first to call me out on it and shame me for it.
For shame Sir.
I have to agree with Spike. I for one have no clue what you are talking about. Then you come and say stuff like " prelimenary information sounds solid" so obviously you have info that most of us do not and you wanted to let us know that. But now all you have done is gotten our curiousity up. Thats actually how **** as you call it gets started. when you leave ou tinformation people will fill in the blanks.
I for one do not get invloved in politics. i stay at my level and enjoy the program.
Guys, you are all correct. I wish I could be more specific at this time. I post the above only to inform you of current events unfolding. I don't have all the information yet nor do I think it proper to "speculate". What I know so far is this:
1. It seems NEC was improperly advised to bring the "CSU" issue off the table.
2. This year's vehicle purchase award was to a dealer who has in their employee a member of the national staff. The bid was made before the appointment however, there was no disclosure. Our corporate legal consul is investigating this now. The CAP/EX (I was informed) had no idea of the bid before today.
3. The recommended new Financial Adviser to CAP is a friend of the Chairman of the CAP investment committee. I was informed, after a closed meeting of the BoG audit committee, the decision was put on hold due to lack of full disclosure; as well as inconsistencies. Other Blogs have speculated on these "inconsistencies" as well as other questions from Col Tilton which may have been a reason for his removal as an "at large" member of the BoG.
4. The IG was tasked to investigate a problem concerning a serious situation in Idaho Wing. Sources inform me the investigation is complete however, someone has ordered the findings witheld.
I promise I will post every detail as soon as I'm made aware of them. And, if I was led down the proverbial path, yes, shame on me, I'll be the first to admit I was the patsy. Until I get the answers or, until someone else can prove what I've posted to be nothing but BS, there is nothing more I can add. :-X
I think the fellow responsible for one of those "other blogs" is here on CAPTalk, but I can't figure out which of about 3 suspects is him....
O.K., so here we go again. I have a very good solution. If it's true, no one gets to promoted above the grade of Lt. Col. and no one gets a NHQ or region assignment from this point on without being first boarded for the assignement or promotion by the Air Staff. Lets have everyone assigned to either Region or NHQ sign a legally binding contract that promotes ethics. Let's advocate for a change in the Constitution and By-laws....and if it's not true, you sir, the "patsy," should consider resigning. I for one am really tired of the drama. I don't need it, nor do I have time for it.
I could not agree more with those posted by FW.
Re: #3 Even after Col Tilton was cleared of the charges brought against him, he was still removed by the NEC.
Re: #4 Considering the player that were involved, I am not surprised that the findings were witheld.
I joined over 40 years ago and I have not seen anything like the events in the last several years.
Fortunately, or maybe unfortunately, many units in CAP are oblivious as to what is happening. Then there are those who will continue to "salute and execute" and go along their merry way. These are the folks who will be successful in fulfilling the CAP missions.
*self edit
... I am lost big time. I think if your going to put out that you know something, put out their what you know. Lets expand on this if you know. Civil Air patrol is so scared to talk about their problems. Lets have an open discusion on things now. Maybe open discourse is what is needed to keep the political lackeys at bay.
So about number 1. Who "improperly" advised the NEC to remove the CSU? Another thing, how do you "improperly advise someone"? Advising is making a suggestion, not ordering someone or forcing someone do to this. I think i understand, this is how the leadership is going to weasel out of the whole CSU situation, by saying pineda forced it in, "someone" forced it out. Going to use the Nuremberg defense huh, "i was just following orders"? I believe your being used FW, guard yourself sir.
#2 and #3. Nothing like cap messing with Congressional funds. Anyone else seeing cap members before a house comity before long? If this is not handled properly, we will be in very big trouble. I'm worried :-\ Who was the employed member of national staff. We as members have a right to know this kind of things. This could, and more than likely affect all of us.
#4. Like this has never been heard of in cap before. IG's sitting on reports because of pressure from above. So who ordered the findings not reported? Wing king? Region King? What is going to be done about this? Lets be honest with ourselves, nothing is going to be done about this one. Its sad.
FW, i have the up most respect for you, but from a region staffer to a national staffer, your being played. They knew you posted on here, slipped you just enough information to make your ears perk up, and they hoped you would post. Someone wants this out in the membership, so lets put it out. No more hiding things cap, open discourse is what is needed now. CAP as a whole can not afford another pineda style media hype. We will not survive, plain and simple.
^OK, Let's see if I can make things a bit clearer for you.
First, yes, I know I'm being fed information. However, I do verify before I post.
Second, I did not say an employee at national got the contract. It was a volunteer's employer who got the contract. The volunteer, I've been informed, wrote the bid and did not disclose.
Third, It was Col. Cortum who brought the "new business" to the NEC. However, the NB tabled uniform discussion until 2011. I already posted the part about "14.8" of the bylaws. The CAP/CS should have stopped this from going forward. I blame this on his probable ignorance of the regs however, the entire NEC did not realize this. They do now and, I can assure everyone. The NB will now have to deal with it.... Such a waste of time, in my opinion.
As for the IG "hold up", I can only say it is a national level investigation. I'm aware of the complaint and the reasons for it. Since I was a corporate officer at the time of the complaint, it would not be proper to post the details. However, I am working the "back channels" to bring closure to those involved. I will post when I'm able.
Yes, we can not afford another scandal. But, I'm only the messanger. I for one rather have a CAP whose leaders actually work for the common welfare of the whole.
" Yes, we can not afford another scandal. But, I'm only the messanger. I for one rather have a CAP whose leaders actually work for the common welfare of the whole.
[/quote]Yes, we can not afford another scandal. But, I'm only the messanger. I for one rather have a CAP whose leaders actually work for the common welfare of the whole."
++1, amen, no more scandals and work for the good of the organization, CORE values.
Thanks for clearing some things up. I have some question though, want me to pm you or post them here?
When does this stuff end?
Quote from: Strick on December 23, 2009, 04:41:24 PM
When does this stuff end?
When people let their egos die, and when the "birds" on their shoulders are put back in perspective.
Quote from: FW on December 23, 2009, 02:47:11 AM
2. This year's vehicle purchase award was to a dealer who has in their employee a member of the national staff. The bid was made before the appointment however, there was no disclosure. Our corporate legal consul is investigating this now. The CAP/EX (I was informed) had no idea of the bid before today.
Gee, I thought all bidding for CAP type equipment/vehicles was handled by the USAF Maxwell AFB Contracting Office, that basically would award a contract based upon generally the lowest cost. So whether a CAP member was an employee of the bidder or not, there actually was a disinterested party administering the bidding process. IF the member wasn't involved in the direct award of the contract, got to wonder what this really matters anyways. Also if the bidder employes a CAP member (that as you admit wasn't involved in the bidding selection process), why would that company have any requirement to disclose?
RM
I appreciate that people are disturbed and concerned about the allegations that are reported here. However, I wonder if this is the time and place to be having this conversation when the details cannot be shared, the accusations remain heresay at this point, and we don't know what agendas are being served by us discussing them here?
I will say this, however. I am honored to be a member of Civil Air Patrol. Some of the finest people I know and call friends I met through CAP. I find it a meaningful way for me to give back to my community and my country that have done so much for me! Being a member, in my opinion, is a privilege and not a right. Are there people in CAP that act in ways that don't reflect our core values? Absolutely. Thankfully, there are many more good people that make the organization and its missions work. Are there people in leadership that make mistakes and make bad decisions? Of course....they are fallible humans. Until such time as incontrovertible proof is offered that shows malice or ill intentions were behind the heresay offered here today, I will continue to think the best of our leadership and sincerely believe they are doing the best they can.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on December 23, 2009, 05:38:17 PM
Quote from: FW on December 23, 2009, 02:47:11 AM
2. This year's vehicle purchase award was to a dealer who has in their employee a member of the national staff. The bid was made before the appointment however, there was no disclosure. Our corporate legal consul is investigating this now. The CAP/EX (I was informed) had no idea of the bid before today.
Gee, I thought all bidding for CAP type equipment/vehicles was handled by the USAF Maxwell AFB Contracting Office, that basically would award a contract based upon generally the lowest cost. So whether a CAP member was an employee of the bidder or not, there actually was a disinterested party administering the bidding process. IF the member wasn't involved in the direct award of the contract, got to wonder what this really matters anyways. Also if the bidder employees a CAP member (that as you admit wasn't involved in the bidding selection process), why would that company have any requirement to disclose?
RM
No, we handle all contracts in house now. The Air Force hasn't been directly involved since 1994.
CAPR 70-1 specifically prevents members from bidding (conflict of interest or perception there of).
Our ethics reg also mentions this. We, as volunteers, should not profit from our status; especially when we are on national staff.
As far as hearsay, well yep. I heard it. And I'll tell you what I heard after the GC's office investigates this.
Quote from: DogCollar on December 23, 2009, 06:30:45 PM
I appreciate that people are disturbed and concerned about the allegations that are reported here. However, I wonder if this is the time and place to be having this conversation when the details cannot be shared, the accusations remain heresay at this point, and we don't know what agendas are being served by us discussing them here?
I will say this, however. I am honored to be a member of Civil Air Patrol. Some of the finest people I know and call friends I met through CAP. I find it a meaningful way for me to give back to my community and my country that have done so much for me! Being a member, in my opinion, is a privilege and not a right. Are there people in CAP that act in ways that don't reflect our core values? Absolutely. Thankfully, there are many more good people that make the organization and its missions work. Are there people in leadership that make mistakes and make bad decisions? Of course....they are fallible humans. Until such time as incontrovertible proof is offered that shows malice or ill intentions were behind the heresay offered here today, I will continue to think the best of our leadership and sincerely believe they are doing the best they can.
Chaplain, I hear you. This is the perfect place to discuss the issues facing us as members of one of the greatest volunteer organizations around. I, for one, have been a member since I was a 13 yo. cadet. I have many friends in CAP from all over this country and, all of them, feel strongly about its continued success in all we do.
The current issues on this thread are now known and, what will happen is out of our control. However, it is my opinion we should understand what is going on and learn from it. I agree, most of our leaders are great people. I consider them good friends and colleagues. However, I also feel it is our duty to try and get them back on the right road if they stray. I have done that. Now we all must wait for those who must figure it out. Then, we move forward.
These issues will be dealt with one way or another. It is interesting to me like a car wreck on the side of the road. I gotta slow down and watch the show... no matter how distasteful it is.
Since the birth of CAP I am sure that things like this were going on, and will continue to go on as long as CAP is still here. No matter what the story, gossip or otherwise, I am sure that this accounts for a small part of CAP personnal. The powers to be will take care of it I am sure and things will be back to normal, if any of these things are true. And I am sure what has been said from others are true, but do we know all the facts yet.
I believe in this program and as long as there are people like you around that do the right thing, it will be ok
Read the previous USAF investigations. . . Has CAP NHQ got it together?
Ask yourself: Have we justified to the USAF that we are using 500 Aircraft in an effective manner, conserving Tax payers purchasing by buying 15 passenger Vans while telling Congress we buy them for ground search and rescue work??
Justify the 20 million on Archer?? Was it a fraud from the beginning? it was consistently presented to the USAF, and DOD, Law Enforcement, Congress, the Media, the American People. It never worked because it was not properly engineered and when purchased never tested properly?
You tell me that a piddly purchase of vehicles is our biggest problem??
How about the bleeding out of volunteers and Pilots because of a TOTAL lack of concern to the welfare of the Members, and the basic request of those members.
Happy New year to you all
and to you guys who rip me for saying these things: I have flown over 400 hours of missions (MISSIONS) over the last 5 years. My parents had me at missions at 7 years old because my dad flew and my mom was running a mission base because they could not get people to help. I became a Cadet, and a senior. Imagine my shock years later to find out NHQ had been so disrespectful to hundreds of thousands of us by not keeping any records of our membership for years. Shameful and a sham, because they always created the FACADE that this was being done.
Does this official policy continue? who is protecting the rights of the rank and File?
NHQ does not have the decency to keep the Names of the Volunteers KILLED in the line of duty.
You tell me if we have problems? why is it we have to be secret? Kill the messenger?
Lets ask for Change!! Change from the Ground up!! CAP belongs to the American People!!
Not to CAP Incorporated.
FW wrote:
No, we handle all contracts in house now. The Air Force hasn't been directly involved since 1994.
CAPR 70-1 specifically prevents members from bidding (conflict of interest or perception there of).
Our ethics reg also mentions this. We, as volunteers, should not profit from our status; especially when we are on national staff.
Well, I read the regulation, and it seems to me that for large dollar procurements, it mentions about using established government contracts if at all possible. I would assume that GSA already has a contract for vehicle fleet purchases -- interestingly we would have gotten it cheaper via a seperate bid
Additionally, is there somewhere on the CAP website that shows what CAP has gone out to bid for and who was awarded the bid, similiar to what the federal government does with all it's bids to maintain transparency with the public and also those vendors that bid?
RM
Wingnut55, thank you for all your service to CAP. I think that the 2 generations of your family's service is amazing. It's members like you and your parents which make Civil Air Patrol great. This is the kind of story which gives me hope.
And you're correct. This years purchase of about a million dollars worth of vehicles is not our biggest problem. However, I do think that when combined with the perception of arbitrary and inconsiderate decisions of our leadership, the safety of our aircraft fleet (the investigation I was referring to) and the percieved arrogance of some of our leaders does tend to rise to the level of membership response. For me it is posting on CT and discussing the issues with those in "my unit" and with those at the next level. I'm a small voice however, I hope I can do my bit to effect some change for the good.
Wow.
If FW were any other person, the moderators would have "slapped" him and locked this thread immediately.
You can find multiple instances of members and mods saying "don't dump dirty laundry on here for the world to see". Lets stop this now.
This is not the place for any of this discussion.
FW.....you are spreading gossip now. Dirty gossip. Just stop. PERIOD. .
Speaking of an IG investigation, even with "insider knowledge" here is not right.
If you feel these things are so important to get answers to, use the chain of command like everyone else.
I applaud you for your service with CAP up to this point, Wing Banker and financial things worked great under you. However, I must ask, would you have posted this information if you were still a Corporate Officer?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Actually, Spike. My posts are no longer gossip. The commander and executive director (my chain of command) is aware of the situation and things are moving along.
And no, I wouldn't be posting this on CT; I would have done everything in my power to stop this dead in it's tracks as a voting member. BTW; the investigation is finished. The complaint has always been public knowledge. Only the findings are being witheld (the ROI is the only document which should be kept sealed). The Board of Governors is aware the findings have not been sent to them. I think it is a matter of days when that bit of "gossip" is put to rest. If you don't believe me, why don't you contact the IDWG/CC for information?
Gee Spike, I guess I'm not you're "favorite Col." any more. :(
Spike,
Sorry, have to disagree. CAP is a public corporation, therefore all things should be public knowledge. There should be a transparency in all that we do. If these things are going on, then all need to know about them; I, nor those around me, had no idea about any of these things. It is only when we have the secret squirrel stuff going on that the public and membership begin to distrust the decisions and actions of those above us.
----
CAP should be willing to disclose the results of all investigations. Come to think of it, as a public entity, is the CAP not subject to FOI (Freedom of Information) requests and disclosures?
Speaking as one of the lurkers and as a 30-year member, I gotta say that there are a number of things I've seen over the past year within and about CAP that are troubling me.
This just adds to the list.
Quote from: High Speed Low Drag on December 24, 2009, 02:38:48 PM
Spike,
Sorry, have to disagree. CAP is a public corporation, therefore all things should be public knowledge. There should be a transparency in all that we do. If these things are going on, then all need to know about them; I, nor those around me, had no idea about any of these things. It is only when we have the secret squirrel stuff going on that the public and membership begin to distrust the decisions and actions of those above us.
----
CAP should be willing to disclose the results of all investigations. Come to think of it, as a public entity, is the CAP not subject to FOI (Freedom of Information) requests and disclosures?
High Speed,
I agree with you. Just like my fav President says, I totally believe in transparency in govt. the problem is the medium. Now, when I first read FW's comments I was like Spike. I as a normal member and lurker didn't know who this person is or what he was talking about. So to me it was idle gossip I now know who he is thanks to PMs and I have much respect for him . But before he just came on here throwing out stories. So to those of us that are normal members and not into the "politics" of CAP, what are we to think? We don't know this person from Jack. An to me it was gossip, How did I know this person was valid? Just like I keep my name anonymous so does he. So what credibility does he have with me or others that dont now who he is? Like I said Now I do know and its all good. But in the beginning I wasn't sure and I am sure others felt the same way.
^ OK. Tell us what you and FW want us to do about these things. There is talk about a lot of crap on here, but honestly, what can we do?? I sent letters about the CSU going away, what else can I possibly do?
If these are such "big" issues, what are all of you going to do about them, instead of speculating on here??
FW....you are still my Favorite Colonel, but what have you done about these issues?? Seriously, other than posting here, what have you done? Tell me what I need to do to support you to bring transparency to CAP, and I will do it.
We cant do anything about it. I am just a regular dues paying member. I have no "special" positions (not yet anyway) I just go with it and do what they tell me. I handle CAP within the limits that I can which right now is the unit level. Come January, it iwll be different for me though.
Quote from: Spike on December 24, 2009, 07:16:12 PM
^ OK. Tell us what you and FW want us to do about these things. There is talk about a lot of crap on here, but honestly, what can we do?? I sent letters about the CSU going away, what else can I possibly do?
If these are such "big" issues, what are all of you going to do about them, instead of speculating on here??
FW....you are still my Favorite Colonel, but what have you done about these issues?? Seriously, other than posting here, what have you done? Tell me what I need to do to support you to bring transparency to CAP, and I will do it.
Spike, making public an apparent cover up is the first thing we can do as members. That has been done.
The second thing we can do as members is insist that our Core Values and Regulations be followed by everyone; not just the rank and file.
The third thing we can do is insist our wing commanders lead accordingly. We must learn all about our traditions, values, rules and policies. Knowledge is the weapon that gives us strength.
We must follow the "orders and directions" of our leaders however, those orders and directions must be in line with our Constitution and Bylaws; our regulations and our policies. We are not lemmings and we are not pawns to be shuffled about while we try to perform our missions and pay our annual dues and other expenses.
As a cadet, I was taught in "Leadership Lab" (CAPM 50-1 for you old folks) how to follow. Later in life, I was taught how to lead. We all must learn to do both. For CAP to thrive, IMHO, every active member must learn to how to thrive and have some fun while volunteering for duty. "Semper Viligens" should mean something to every member. Always be aware, never be afraid to point out wrongs to your leaders and, use the chain to make sure everyone is "in the loop".
I have done all the above. I can't be 100% certain however, 99% sure the **** I brought up will be taken care of by the winter NB meeting. Every CT poster has already done their part with the uniform issue. As far as the other "stuff" Let's see what the BoG does. The vehicle contract has, unfortunately, already been awarded and the vehicles have been bought. There is nothing now to do except see what will happen to the members involved in the "conflict". BTW, I understand the member earned $9600 for his work. I just hope the other bidders don't find out about this. Could mean extra work for out corporate staff at Maxwell....
And, Spike, I'm happy I'm still your favorite Col. :-*
So that is why we replaced a 4 wheel drive SUV with a Dodge Caravan.......
Makes sense now!