I hear a lot of AUXON/AUXOFF conversation on captalk. I'm curious, what would we lose and gain by switching to a complete AUXON status? Without going into the feasibility question please. Assume we have a magic wand that could make this one thing and one thing only happen.
Pardon my ignorance, what does AUXON/AUXOFF actually mean? I have a clue, but I'm thinking it's more in-depth than whats in my head. Thanks!
If I'm reading AUXON as meaning we would be AF Auxiliary 24/7/365 .... that would mean the AF oversight folks would be all over our local meetings and everything else. I don't think the AF is interested in our daily lives at all. They want to oversee our ability to fly Missions "as needed" but why in the world would they want to be all involved with anything else? If anything ... I foresee a possible future where CAP is folded into Homeland Security and out of the AF.
Quote from: etodd on September 21, 2016, 07:04:32 PM
If anything ... I foresee a possible future where CAP is folded into Homeland Security and out of the AF.
Doubtful that will happen.
Quote from: abdsp51 on September 21, 2016, 07:38:14 PM
Quote from: etodd on September 21, 2016, 07:04:32 PM
If anything ... I foresee a possible future where CAP is folded into Homeland Security and out of the AF.
Doubtful that will happen.
Feels a lot like 2007 around here the last couple days...
Quote from: Eclipse on September 21, 2016, 07:45:03 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on September 21, 2016, 07:38:14 PM
Quote from: etodd on September 21, 2016, 07:04:32 PM
If anything ... I foresee a possible future where CAP is folded into Homeland Security and out of the AF.
Doubtful that will happen.
Feels a lot like 2007 around here the last couple days...
^^^^ Smiles and nods (sitting on the porch remembering the good ol' days...)
I'm out of popcorn. Anybody got some to spare? ;)
hochie mamma! LOL.
Quote from: etodd on September 21, 2016, 07:04:32 PM
If I'm reading AUXON as meaning we would be AF Auxiliary 24/7/365 .... that would mean the AF oversight folks would be all over our local meetings and everything else. I don't think the AF is interested in our daily lives at all. They want to oversee our ability to fly Missions "as needed" but why in the world would they want to be all involved with anything else? If anything ... I foresee a possible future where CAP is folded into Homeland Security and out of the AF.
Mirror the USCG/USCGAux system, lots of missions go on everyday and the USCG approves them but they are not "all over" local meetings and such.
Spitballing here but CAP-USAF could set up a 800 number hotline, local CAP units call in and advise their mission status, it gets logged in and the Watch Officer/NCO on that phone gives back a log/mission number.
Quote from: shuman14 on September 21, 2016, 09:38:26 PM
Quote from: etodd on September 21, 2016, 07:04:32 PM
If I'm reading AUXON as meaning we would be AF Auxiliary 24/7/365 .... that would mean the AF oversight folks would be all over our local meetings and everything else. I don't think the AF is interested in our daily lives at all. They want to oversee our ability to fly Missions "as needed" but why in the world would they want to be all involved with anything else? If anything ... I foresee a possible future where CAP is folded into Homeland Security and out of the AF.
Mirror the USCG/USCGAux system, lots of missions go on everyday and the USCG approves them but they are not "all over" local meetings and such.
Spitballing here but CAP-USAF could set up a 800 number hotline, local CAP units call in and advise their mission status, it gets logged in and the Watch Officer/NCO on that phone gives back a log/mission number.
You know, at one time (pre-BRAC) CAP was the AF Aux all of the time and National Headquarters was manned with just Active Duty Air Force and DAF Civilians.
And the Air Force had very little to do with day to day operations...
I remember those days with great fondness. :)
Quote from: PHall on September 21, 2016, 10:22:39 PM
Quote from: shuman14 on September 21, 2016, 09:38:26 PM
Quote from: etodd on September 21, 2016, 07:04:32 PM
If I'm reading AUXON as meaning we would be AF Auxiliary 24/7/365 .... that would mean the AF oversight folks would be all over our local meetings and everything else. I don't think the AF is interested in our daily lives at all. They want to oversee our ability to fly Missions "as needed" but why in the world would they want to be all involved with anything else? If anything ... I foresee a possible future where CAP is folded into Homeland Security and out of the AF.
Mirror the USCG/USCGAux system, lots of missions go on everyday and the USCG approves them but they are not "all over" local meetings and such.
Spitballing here but CAP-USAF could set up a 800 number hotline, local CAP units call in and advise their mission status, it gets logged in and the Watch Officer/NCO on that phone gives back a log/mission number.
You know, at one time (pre-BRAC) CAP was the AF Aux all of the time and National Headquarters was manned with just Active Duty Air Force and DAF Civilians.
And the Air Force had very little to do with day to day operations...
I remember those days. The CAP-USAF Commander also served as CAP Executive Director. I think current funding would preclude going back to that, although it would be nice if we could.
For the Syracuse Mission (ahem) the AirForce put it out to bid. They received bids in the $2-5 million range from private companies. CAP said "We'll do it for just $250k per year." (Airplanes in place and free labor.)
Point being that AFRCC could easily outsource SAR as well. They could use a business or any other organization. Its not at all necessary that we be an Auxiliary other than the Federal Charter, which could easily be modified/ratified/etc. at any time Congress deem fit.
As long as the funding is still there and they supply the planes and other expenses, we could still do the same job as a totally civilian org.
Traditions are strong I realize. But its not necessary to the job at hand.
Quote from: MHC5096 on September 21, 2016, 10:29:32 PM
I remember those days with great fondness. :)
Likewise, especially when it comes to the Chaplain Corps.
QuotePoint being that AFRCC could easily outsource SAR as well. They could use a business or any other organization.
No they can't. AFRCC only coordinates requests for federal SAR resources. If CAP isn't the USAF Aux, they don't get requested by AFRCC.
"As the United States' inland search and rescue (SAR) coordinator, the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center (AFRCC) serves as the single agency responsible for
coordinating on-land federal SAR activities in the 48 contiguous United States while also providing SAR assistance to Mexico and Canada."
"Once verified as an actual distress situation, the
AFRCC requests support from the appropriate federal SAR force."
Mike
Quote from: sardak on September 21, 2016, 11:36:25 PM
QuotePoint being that AFRCC could easily outsource SAR as well. They could use a business or any other organization.
No they can't. AFRCC only coordinates requests for federal SAR resources. If CAP isn't the USAF Aux, they don't get requested by AFRCC.
"As the United States' inland search and rescue (SAR) coordinator, the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center (AFRCC) serves as the single agency responsible for coordinating on-land federal SAR activities in the 48 contiguous United States while also providing SAR assistance to Mexico and Canada."
"Once verified as an actual distress situation, the AFRCC requests support from the appropriate federal SAR force."
Mike
So if we were folded into Homeland Security / FEMA at some point in the future .... it would solve your puzzle.
All hypotheticals of course, but so was the original question of this thread.
Bottom line that yes, CAP could evolve into something different at some point and not be an AF AUX and still be able to do SAR. Most anything is possible. If CAP could be re-Chartered, then AFRCC could change their rules as well. Nothing is ever set in stone.
CAP is as CAP does...
Changing the corporate status; becoming "AUXON 24/7"; etc; won't change anything. My home squadron is doing the same things today (well almost) as it did 50 years ago; except with 150 less members. IMHO, this kind of exercise is futile. The simple facts are pretty clear and unchangeable; The law making us a "permanent" auxiliary of the USAF was ruled unconstitutional about 20 years ago by the GAO (the "Supply Bill"). This, and Air Force cutbacks led to reorganization, full corporate status, and the current "act as an auxiliary when on AFAMs authorized by the SECAF" began. Further organization, the BoG, new C&BL, and the evolution to our present structure and status took a lot of thought, discussion, and consternation. What we have now is it. I really think we need to stop the whining and begin figuring out how to keep improving what we now have.
Ditching our corporate status? I'll make it simple. Not going to happen in our lifetime! End of story. Credits have rolled through and popcorn is finished. Time for other bed time stories...
^^^^ :clap: :clap: Could not have stated it better :clap: :clap:
It was a hypothetical from the start. Its always fun to think of ideas of the future ... even if it is 50 years out.
But yes .... no current CAP member has to worry about having their starched uniforms and ribbons taken away in their lifetime. ;)
Quote from: etodd on September 22, 2016, 02:02:31 AM
It was a hypothetical from the start. Its always fun to think of ideas of the future ... even if it is 50 years out.
But yes .... no current CAP member has to worry about having their starched uniforms and ribbons taken away in their lifetime. ;)
You keep saying this.
I don't think "ditching corporate status" means, what you think it means.
The conversation, in all seriousness, is about going straight Auxiliary, no more "corporate only" which would likely result in more uniform uniforms, not less (again, hypothetical).
If you want to talk about ditching Auxiliary and going Full Corporate, maybe start a thread where that is relevant? (I'm not opposed to discussing it, it's no less worthy of an independent thread than the 10 about whether ABUs can be worn between 1612 and 1623 on the third Wednesday in June- but let's not continually hijack other threads with the Homeland Security theory)
1st Lt Raduenz
Starfleet Auxiliary started this thread and then has sat back enjoying popcorn without dropping back in. I figured I'd give him some fun reading. LOL
Nah, you figured you'd advance you're tired and ridiculous narrative.
This thread
DELIVERS! :)
That...
Doesn't even make sense.
Where in DHS?
There is no home in the Department for CAP.
Quote from: etodd on September 21, 2016, 07:04:32 PM
If anything ... I foresee a possible future where CAP is folded into Homeland Security and out of the AF.
Quote from: USACAP on September 23, 2016, 02:57:59 AM
This thread DELIVERS! :)
That...
Doesn't even make sense.
Where in DHS?
There is no home in the Department for CAP.
Quote from: etodd on September 21, 2016, 07:04:32 PM
If anything ... I foresee a possible future where CAP is folded into Homeland Security and out of the AF.
Truth.
This gent here actually knows what he's talking about:
Quote from: sardak on September 21, 2016, 11:36:25 PM
QuotePoint being that AFRCC could easily outsource SAR as well. They could use a business or any other organization.
No they can't. AFRCC only coordinates requests for federal SAR resources. If CAP isn't the USAF Aux, they don't get requested by AFRCC.
"As the United States' inland search and rescue (SAR) coordinator, the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center (AFRCC) serves as the single agency responsible for coordinating on-land federal SAR activities in the 48 contiguous United States while also providing SAR assistance to Mexico and Canada."
"Once verified as an actual distress situation, the AFRCC requests support from the appropriate federal SAR force."
Mike