New CAP Uniform

sandman · October 12, 2008, 05:46:11 PM

Well, I was thinking about posting this picture in an existing thread, But It sort of stands alone.
I found this on a Sea Cadet website. Any comments?

Picture link:
http://picasaweb.google.com/forrestalsquadron/TuskegeeAirmenNovDrill#5155393545286806594

pixelwonk · October 12, 2008, 05:52:27 PM

nice.

Grumpy · October 12, 2008, 06:14:19 PM

I believe this picture is definitely worth a thousand words. You'd think if he wanted to impersonate a Maj. General he'd at least put the stars on an officer's flight cap.

Pylon · October 12, 2008, 06:19:22 PM

Actually, it looks like he may be some sort of Rear Admiral in the Sea Cadet Corps, and perhaps the NSCC allows wear of both Real Military and CAP awards and decorations. In other words, the black shirt, nameplate and small stars looks very much like a Naval-esque uniform, and he's just sporting CAP ribbons and CAP wings, in addition to his RM and NSCC ribbons and devices.

More info & research is needed before anybody accuses this guy of anything, for sure.

_ · October 12, 2008, 06:21:20 PM

Quote from: Pylon on October 12, 2008, 06:19:22 PM
Actually, it looks like he may be some sort of Rear Admiral in the Sea Cadet Corps, and perhaps the NSCC allows wear of both Real Military and CAP awards and decorations. In other words, the black shirt, nameplate and small stars looks very much like a Naval-esque uniform, and he's just sporting CAP ribbons and CAP wings, in addition to his RM and NSCC ribbons and devices.

His name tag would also seem to indicate his uniform being associated with the Sea Cadets.

(edit - sorry didn't see your comment about that)

ol'fido · October 12, 2008, 06:58:15 PM

We worked with the Sea Cadets at our summer encampments for several years. The adults wore regular naval officers uniforms and most often the khakis or the ice cream suits. They were usually a Ens, Ltjg,Lt, or LtCdr and that was about the highest rank for anybody that wasn't active duty Navy. They didn't promote like CAP does.

Plus, all his ribbons are USAF or CAP. Someone in the Sea Cadets wouldn't get that high without earning a single naval type ribbon.

Smells fishy!

addo1 · October 12, 2008, 07:01:19 PM

OH MY GOODNESS!!!! This is my C/2nd Lt. at my squadron!!!!!! He is a really good guy. Yes, he is also in the Sea Cadets.

cnitas · October 12, 2008, 07:03:54 PM

That appears to be a Sea Cadets uniform, so the stars may very well be legit.

That being said, and after looking up the NSCC regulations, the CAP ribbons and insignia are not authorized on that uniform. CAP ribbons are prohibited specifically in their regulation for their cadets, and are not included in their 'yes' list for adults.

I am also intrigued at the title - "Tuskegee Airmen"

The RM ribbons he is wearing seem to indicate Air Force enlisted service likely between 1955-1965. I was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly, that the Tuskegee Airmen were from WW2??

addo1 · October 12, 2008, 07:05:47 PM

Quote from: cnitas on October 12, 2008, 07:03:54 PM
That appears to be a Sea Cadets uniform, so the stars may very well be legit.

That being said, and after looking up the NSCC regulations, the CAP ribbons and insignia are not authorized on that uniform. CAP ribbons are prohibited specifically in their regulation for their cadets, and are not included in their 'yes' list for adults.

I am also intrigued at the title - "Tuskegee Airmen"

The RM ribbons he is wearing seem to indicate Air Force enlisted service likely between 1955-1965. I was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly, that the Tuskegee Airmen were from WW2??

I am calling the cadet right now.. Will post more info soon...

EDIT: The cadet is busy, but he is calling me back. I will try to figure it out.

DC · October 12, 2008, 08:22:12 PM

I do not even believe that NSCC has Admirals. Their regular officer ranks stop at LT CDR and their higher ups are, I believe, Captains....

The uniform is the winter service blues, "Johnny Cash" uniform.

pixelwonk · October 12, 2008, 08:34:17 PM

Quote from: NSCC/NLCC Uniform Manual5101.3 Cadets will wear only those NSCC/NLCC ribbons and appurtenances specified in the NSCC Awards Manual. They may not wear DOD/DOT/DHS ribbons and awards, nor ribbon and awards from other military oriented youth programs (CAP, JROTC, Sea Explorers, etc.) on NSCC uniforms, unless specifically authorized in writing by Sea Cadet National Headquarters. Badges developed for NSCC cadets for award upon successful completion of TWT or other like training (SEAL, EOD, etc.) may be worn as approved by NHQ and detailed in the Awards Manual. Manner of wear shall follow that of earned warfare or other qualification insignia, with only two permitted.

Quote from: NSCC/NLCC Uniform Manual5101.4 NSCC officers, midshipman and uniformed instructors may wear all earned DOD/DOT/DHS ribbons and breast insignia. Documentation in the form of DD-214, NAVPERS 1650/65 (from Bureau of Naval Personnel, Retired Records Section), or other appropriate documentation, must be in the members NSCC Service Record, verifying the member's entitlement to such awards and insignia. When worn with NSCC ribbon awards, DOD/DOT/DHS ribbons take precedence.

Granted, it doesn't say anything about CAP, other than Cadets not allowed to wear ribbons, etc from other cadet programs without approval from brass.

I can't figure out why a Tuskegee airman would forego wearing RealMil bling instead of CAP bling, but it's a Maj Gen. They wear what they want. Whether it's germane to the topic or not, There are flag officers (ret) involved in the NSCC, by the way.

And I have donuts, which are more enticing than further research. Have fun storming the castle.

Donuts... nom nom nom

Desert Dawg · October 12, 2008, 08:55:39 PM

I used to be an Instructor with the Naval Sea Cadet Corps. and I never saw that uniform or heard anyone holding that grade. And I am pretty sure that they dont allow CAP bling on their uniforms.

Pumbaa · October 12, 2008, 10:20:22 PM

FYI

Here are the REAL Tuskegee Airmen! Our cadets got invited to meet them as Lockheed Martin Owego NY brought them into town.

All of these guys were in the 80-90's! none of them wore uniforms either!

MSgt Van · October 12, 2008, 10:26:08 PM

In case you're wondering, the AF ribbons he's wearing are (from top down, left to right)
Presidential Unit Citation
{Looks like two outstanding unit awards} {National Defense ribbon}
{Marksmanship ribbon {AF good conduct ribbon, (less than 6 years of service)}

Nothing big here... no decorations, just service or unit awards.
It looks to me like there's two identical ribbons in the row next to the top.

Eclipse · October 12, 2008, 10:36:37 PM

While the few that I have met were "seasoned", there are more than a few who do not show their age.
Depending on the activity and circumstance, I have seen any number of them wearing uniforms in various
flavors, however the unusual thing is the ubiquitous blazer with the nameplate.

As to the gentleman above, I'm as curious as everyone else, because the story behind his garb is sure to be "interesting", regardless.

Wiki says the highest adult grade in the NSCC is LCDR. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Sea_Cadet_Corps

BTW - I've seen bright red, light blue, and dark blue blazers. Anyone know the differentiation?

Eclipse · October 12, 2008, 11:01:48 PM

It appears this was taken during the "Tuskegee Airmen Youth Day" at Cavanaugh Flight Museum in Addison, TX.

Note this photo, which matches the hanger and there appears to be one of the officers from NSCC in the background who appears in other photos in the Picasa album (which I'd be willing to bet gets taken down or edited quickly after someone from TX-354 or Group III gets wind of this thread).

AlphaSigOU · October 13, 2008, 12:08:50 AM

Quote from: Eclipse on October 12, 2008, 11:01:48 PM
It appears this was taken during the "Tuskegee Airmen Youth Day" at Cavanaugh Flight Museum in Addison, TX.

Note this photo, which matches the hanger and there appears to be one of the officers from NSCC in the background who appears in other photos in the Picasa album (which I'd be willing to bet gets taken down or edited quickly after someone from TX-354 or Group III gets wind of this thread)...

That was the Tuskeegee Airmen day last year. One of the cadets in my squadron is in the honor guard picture. (No, I wasn't there.) This is the TX Wing Group III honor guard.

TX-354 (Lakeshore Composite Squadron) in Rockwall is actually in Group II. There are other pictures in the album that include other cadets from my squadron and from Mesquite Black Sheep Composite Squadron (TX-214).

If I remember correctly, the blazer color of the Tuskeegee Airmen represents the squadron they belonged to. I could be wrong, though.

DNall · October 13, 2008, 12:10:08 AM

Quote from: Eclipse on October 12, 2008, 11:01:48 PM
(which I'd be willing to bet gets taken down or edited quickly after someone from TX-354 or Group III gets wind of this thread).

While I'm sure I could email the Gp CC up there, I'd rather here the story on this.

Major Carrales · October 13, 2008, 12:16:04 AM

Quote from: DNall on October 13, 2008, 12:10:08 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on October 12, 2008, 11:01:48 PM
(which I'd be willing to bet gets taken down or edited quickly after someone from TX-354 or Group III gets wind of this thread).

While I'm sure I could email the Gp CC up there, I'd rather here the story on this.

Why not just e-mail the commander instead of making speculations here on a public forum?

DNall · October 13, 2008, 01:00:02 AM

I don't believe I'm speculating in any way, though I would certainly agree there is no legal way in which that uniform could exist as configured. Now, while I'm quite sure Owen doesn't know anything about it, or care, how would it resolve anything to have the picture taken offline?

That's censorship in order to tolerate behavior you know isn't acceptable (or legal), in order to prevent CAP from looking bad to the 99.5% of the world that would have no idea this guy is doing something wrong. That should cause your core values nerve to twinge a little.