Boonie Cap

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The point is that I only did them for fun and nobody ever saw me while I had them on.

And now the photos are on the internet for all to see.  You may have only had them on for a little while but remember the internet is forever and your uniform infraction is now forever. 

[nesagsar]

Here is some more unauthorized headgear.





Some headgear makes sense at certain activities. NESA makes sense at NESA, boonie makes sense for GT, berets....well they dont make sense anywhere but I just wanted to make the flash. I thought I did a pretty good job on it.

[lordmonar]

Say however you want, it is still punishing all for the actions of a few.

Hmmmm, only a few huh?  You'd have to show me some real quantitative evidence to support that claim.  I'm admittedly only a small sample but that's not reflective of my experience.

Well the shoe is on the other foot too.  Some will say that willful violations are the rule while others (me for instance) think that most units know and follow the rules.

I can demand from you to prove your statement.

[DC]

Here is some more unauthorized headgear.

Some headgear makes sense at certain activities. NESA makes sense at NESA, boonie makes sense for GT, berets....well they dont make sense anywhere but I just wanted to make the flash. I thought I did a pretty good job on it.

I wouldn't say NCSA hats are unauthorized. Almost all NCSAs have a baseball cap, it's accepted. Just like a lot of encampments authorize baseball caps for their staff. Totally unrelated to boonies and berets.

[DrDave]

No, they're not "totally unrelated to boonies and berets."

These alternate headgear are APPROVED "locally" by the activity director.  I.e. baseball caps for encampment as authorized by the encampment commander, baseball caps at squadron meetings as approved by the squadron commander, Ranger orange stuff as approved by ... whomever is supposed to approve them, etc.

Wear of the boonie caps will be APPROVED by the activity director in the same fashion.

It's exactly the same situation as what you noted.

Dr. Dave

[Dragoon]

Look, here's what's gonna happen...

Since it isn't a required item of GTM gear in the manual, some will have it, some won't.

Even if a team mandates boonies for all its members, they'll get three GTMs attached to them from another squadron, who don't have them.

Uniformity will take yet another hit.

When a boonie is warranted for safety purposes, half the folks presetnt won't have them.  And yet, they'll be allowed to participate in spite of being "unsafe."

When a boonie isn't warranted, folks will still wear them, because it's the only hat they happen to have with them.

The boonie will sneak into squadron meetings here and there.  A couple of cadets will show up at encampment or NCSA with nothing but a boonie.

It will just become another item you can wear if you want to.  And we, as an organization, will not become measurably "safer."


(And oh yeah, those wearing them will look more like Gilligan than Rambo.  I will giggle. )

[davedove]

(And oh yeah, those wearing them will look more like Gilligan than Rambo.  I will giggle. )

Making them very appropriate for those three hour missions.

[DC]

No, they're not "totally unrelated to boonies and berets."

These alternate headgear are APPROVED "locally" by the activity director.  I.e. baseball caps for encampment as authorized by the encampment commander, baseball caps at squadron meetings as approved by the squadron commander, Ranger orange stuff as approved by ... whomever is supposed to approve them, etc.

Wear of the boonie caps will be APPROVED by the activity director in the same fashion.

It's exactly the same situation as what you noted.

Dr. Dave

I was referring to when they were not approved. And, camo boonies are still waiting USAF approval. With the baseball caps, as you mentioned, they were appropriately authorized.

[LtCol Hooligan]

Another thing that I also worry about is GTMs challenging the IC on the decision.  I can see arguments of how IC1 let them where it before, but IC2 is not.  Now IC2 is the bad guys and the GTMs call a safety hazard and wear them anyway.  IC2 gets angry, GTL1 tells IC2 it was a safety issue.  Now we go back and forth.  Yes, now it is up to the MSO to step in there, but all the same, it still makes IC2 look bad because he/she did not approve the "cool" new headgear.  I think ICs have a lot more to do than argue with GTs about when they can and cannot wear specific headgear.  I believe we need MSO guidelines put in place so the IC can fall back on the regs vs my thing of I just don't like them.  Otherwise we will hit the safety challenge each time and we might as well have just said- go for it.  Wear them whenever you are in the field.

[mikeylikey]

Am I wrong, but aren't hardhats supposed to be worn when performing ES operations to begin with?  Isn't there something about them being orange hardhats?  So taking that drift, shouldn't the Boonie hats be orange if even allowed at all??

I also am in agreement with the person above that said sleeves should be worn down.  If we are sighting safety to get the boonies, then we need to "safety up" everything else that is not safe.  Heaven forbid a person gets sunburn on their arms because they wore their sleeves up.  That is a practice that should go AWAY!

[0]

I also am in agreement with the person above that said sleeves should be worn down.  If we are sighting safety to get the boonies, then we need to "safety up" everything else that is not safe.  Heaven forbid a person gets sunburn on their arms because they wore their sleeves up.  That is a practice that should go AWAY!

I agree in part and disagree in part about the sleeves.  I can see the agrument for keeping them rolled down and not because of sunburns though.  Ticks, and their fellows would have less to bite and cling to if we less exposed skin. 

But that being said in some heat instances even with the summer weights it is much better to roll the sleeves because yes while there is the chance for sun burn, with more skin exposed we can release more heat instead of trapping it in.

[arajca]

I also am in agreement with the person above that said sleeves should be worn down.  If we are sighting safety to get the boonies, then we need to "safety up" everything else that is not safe.  Heaven forbid a person gets sunburn on their arms because they wore their sleeves up.  That is a practice that should go AWAY!

I agree in part and disagree in part about the sleeves.  I can see the agrument for keeping them rolled down and not because of sunburns though.  Ticks, and their fellows would have less to bite and cling to if we less exposed skin. 

But that being said in some heat instances even with the summer weights it is much better to roll the sleeves because yes while there is the chance for sun burn, with more skin exposed we can release more heat instead of trapping it in.

Following that logic, since more heat get lost through the head, why not remove the hat when it's hot enough to mandate rolling up sleeves?

[0]

I also am in agreement with the person above that said sleeves should be worn down.  If we are sighting safety to get the boonies, then we need to "safety up" everything else that is not safe.  Heaven forbid a person gets sunburn on their arms because they wore their sleeves up.  That is a practice that should go AWAY!

I agree in part and disagree in part about the sleeves.  I can see the agrument for keeping them rolled down and not because of sunburns though.  Ticks, and their fellows would have less to bite and cling to if we less exposed skin. 

But that being said in some heat instances even with the summer weights it is much better to roll the sleeves because yes while there is the chance for sun burn, with more skin exposed we can release more heat instead of trapping it in.

Following that logic, since more heat get lost through the head, why not remove the hat when it's hot enough to mandate rolling up sleeves?

This is true, that's why I personally wear the BBDU's and don't often wear a hat under those circumstances. 

[LtCol Hooligan]

Actually, keeping sleeves rolled down with buttons open would be more effective than rolling the sleeves as rolled sleeves will trap the heat and limit circulation.  Sleeves down will allow for air movement up and down the arms allowing for faster heat dissipation.  I would also point out that a summer weight BDU cap with no flaps would be preferred as it breaths more and allows heat to escape.  If a baseball cap is worn, mesh backing would also be preferred for the same reason.

[DC]

Some BDU caps are vented too, as are boonies.

[nesagsar]

My squadron openly prohibited ventilated BDU caps.

[mikeylikey]

Actually, keeping sleeves rolled down with buttons open would be more effective than rolling the sleeves as rolled sleeves will trap the heat and limit circulation.  Sleeves down will allow for air movement up and down the arms allowing for faster heat dissipation.  I would also point out that a summer weight BDU cap with no flaps would be preferred as it breaths more and allows heat to escape.  If a baseball cap is worn, mesh backing would also be preferred for the same reason.

Right on Sir, rolling sleeves up actually makes you hotter.  It is a "cool factor" that everyone wants to look like the AF guy down the street.  Whenever I hear a Cadet or Senior Member cite rolling sleeves up to keep them cooler I laugh inside and write them off as not doing their research.  

As far as Boonies go, the first summer these are allowed, they will be found at Encampments all over the country (that I am sure of), and I would bet, worn just by the Cadet Staff and those few Senior Members (who are the "cool" Senior Members).

[davedove]

Actually, keeping sleeves rolled down with buttons open would be more effective than rolling the sleeves as rolled sleeves will trap the heat and limit circulation.  Sleeves down will allow for air movement up and down the arms allowing for faster heat dissipation.  I would also point out that a summer weight BDU cap with no flaps would be preferred as it breaths more and allows heat to escape.  If a baseball cap is worn, mesh backing would also be preferred for the same reason.

Right on Sir, rolling sleeves up actually makes you hotter.  It is a "cool factor" that everyone wants to look like the AF guy down the street.  Whenever I hear a Cadet or Senior Member cite rolling sleeves up to keep them cooler I laugh inside and write them off as not doing their research.  

I don't know, maybe it's mental or maybe it's the high humidity we have around here, but I know my arms sweat considerably more and make me feel that much hotter with the sleeves down.

Again, it's probably a humidity thing, because I know that in arid environments the people always keep covered in loose clothing.

Of course, in the woods the sleeves give you better protection from the brush.

[Hawk200]

I don't know, maybe it's mental or maybe it's the high humidity we have around here, but I know my arms sweat considerably more and make me feel that much hotter with the sleeves down.

Again, it's probably a humidity thing, because I know that in arid environments the people always keep covered in loose clothing.

Of course, in the woods the sleeves give you better protection from the brush.

The only thing I've done in the past few years is open up the sleeve buttons. It's always worked for me. I hate rolling sleeves up anyway, to make it look right, I've always had to take the shirt off.

[lordmonar]

Look, here's what's gonna happen...

Since it isn't a required item of GTM gear in the manual, some will have it, some won't.

Even if a team mandates boonies for all its members, they'll get three GTMs attached to them from another squadron, who don't have them.

Uniformity will take yet another hit.

And that is different when you team is made from three different squadrons each with their own squadron ball cap?

Not to mention you got 2 guys in BDUs and three in BBDU's.

If uniformity is the issue....we got to go a lot further back than just whether boonies are authorised or not.

When a boonie is warranted for safety purposes, half the folks presetnt won't have them.  And yet, they'll be allowed to participate in spite of being "unsafe."

All I can say is NOMEX.  We say NOMEX is a "safety" thing and not a cool thing...but we still let people fly in polos and grays.

When a boonie isn't warranted, folks will still wear them, because it's the only hat they happen to have with them.

The boonie will sneak into squadron meetings here and there.  A couple of cadets will show up at encampment or NCSA with nothing but a boonie.

It will just become another item you can wear if you want to.  And we, as an organization, will not become measurably "safer."


(And oh yeah, those wearing them will look more like Gilligan than Rambo.  I will giggle. )

And again....local enforcement is a local issue.  A cadet shows up to encampment with out the right head gear...send him home.  If someone shows up at a squadron meeting he gets to go through the meeting with no hat on....and it better not happen again.

Again how much is this just hat envy?  YOU have control over what your people do.  You can always report other squadrons to the wing CC who are obviously breaking the intent and letter of the regulation.  We can handle the infractions case by case.

This whole issue came up...because people out there want the boonie but they FOLLOW THE RULES.  Saying you can't have them because someone else may not follow the rules...is like saying no one can have a car because someone may speed or run red lights.