SLS Uniform

[Tim Medeiros]

The reference to Table 1-1 makes it sound like that when I'm engaged in normal duties as CAP member in my own home that I need to wear a CAP uniform.  Which is actually quite often, whether its planning training, working on CAP websites, etc.

[tribalelder]

What's the uniform do for SLS- it does set a professional atmosphere.  It says "THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF.  TAKE IT SERIOUSLY."  Attendees in suitable civilian attire send the same message.

Don't make up some NEW requirement.  THis may be misinterpreted by some that this is just to feed your ego.  

I have an up-to-date service coat that fits, clean, pressed, in the closet, ready to go, and I meet fitness and grooming.  But, since I came back to CAP in 1982, it seems that I mostly wear blues to 'disciplinary' matters. Over the years, I've been involved in some 30+ members becoming ex-members ('dismembered ?'), either as originating commander, appeal authority or a board member. In many of those actions, the soon-to-be-ex-member was more in love with the uniform than with CAP and its missions.

I'll wear a business suit, please, unless CAPM39-1 MANDATES otherwise.

[JoeTomasone]

The reference to Table 1-1 makes it sound like that when I'm engaged in normal duties as CAP member in my own home that I need to wear a CAP uniform.  Which is actually quite often, whether its planning training, working on CAP websites, etc.

True.   Maybe that's when you wear "appropriate civilian attire". 

[Hawk200]

What's the uniform do for SLS- it does set a professional atmosphere.  It says "THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF.  TAKE IT SERIOUSLY."  Attendees in suitable civilian attire send the same message.

Don't make up some NEW requirement.  THis may be misinterpreted by some that this is just to feed your ego.  

I have an up-to-date service coat that fits, clean, pressed, in the closet, ready to go, and I meet fitness and grooming.  But, since I came back to CAP in 1982, it seems that I mostly wear blues to 'disciplinary' matters. Over the years, I've been involved in some 30+ members becoming ex-members ('dismembered ?'), either as originating commander, appeal authority or a board member. In many of those actions, the soon-to-be-ex-member was more in love with the uniform than with CAP and its missions.

I'll wear a business suit, please, unless CAPM39-1 MANDATES otherwise.

To me, this seems like an attitude of "I'll participate in CAP and take the training, as long as I get to do it my way."

What is so wrong with uniforms? You're going to a CAP activity, a uniform is a rather obvious choice for wear when attending.

[jimmydeanno]

The reference to Table 1-1 makes it sound like that when I'm engaged in normal duties as CAP member in my own home that I need to wear a CAP uniform.  Which is actually quite often, whether its planning training, working on CAP websites, etc.

See now that depends on whether or not you are conducting those duties more than an hour after the close of the activity (not including travel time).    However, if you happen to live in the DC metro area and are conducting normal business then you should be wearing the service uniform.

The uniform manual makes plenty of references to civilian attire and even specifies what is the equivalent in several tables.  ie: Tuxedo/Evening Gown for Mess Dress.  It talks about conducting CAP business in civilian attire.

Take the SLS note posted, by stating "business wear" just means don't show up in jeans, it sets the expectation that the clothing worn will be of the same caliber across the board. I just taught at an SLS a few weekends ago and one of the students was wearing dress slacks, button shirt and tie because he didn't own a set of blues yet.  So what - he looked better than half the students there with their un-ironed, disheveled uniforms and high-waters...

All I said is, "Thank you for coming, I appreciate you being here."  Perhaps we need more of that.

[arajca]

All I said is, "Thank you for coming, I appreciate you being here."  Perhaps we need more of that.

You know, it's amazing how much you can get folks to do with that short statement.

[Eagle400]

And you've been to how much officer (SM) training?

None, but I am friends with a number of CAP officers who think that the quality of the training needs to be upped.  Most of them are former cadets.

Please don't take this the wrong way sir, but you don't need personal experience with something to be able to talk about it or make observations.  Does a drug counselor need to have personal experience with sniffing coke and shooting heroin in order to counsel people on drug addiction?  Does a surgeon need to be a victim of a wound or injury in order to operate on a patient?

I would hope the answer is no.

It doesn't take all that much training. For the new folks, you tell them what the combinations are, and where to look to refresh their knowledge. For the more seasoned members who use the wrong terminology, you tell them the right term, and where it is defined. The problem is getting the latter group to change their ways and get with the program.

Like I said, all that needs to be done is ensure better quality for the training that already exists.

Major Bowles is right - the folks who will be least likely to change their ways and get with the program are those who are more seasoned and choose to use the wrong term continually.  This is because they are too comfortable with the status quo and don't like change.

In one of my textbooks I read that if you want to create conflict, make change.  To that end, conflict is unavoidable.  It's how we manage the conflict that matters.

[Hawk200]

None, but I am friends with a number of CAP officers who think that the quality of the training needs to be upped.  Most of them are former cadets.

Add one senior that's never been a cadet.

[Eagle400]

What's the uniform do for SLS- it does set a professional atmosphere.  It says "THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF.  TAKE IT SERIOUSLY."  Attendees in suitable civilian attire send the same message.

I'm not trying to start a debate... I hope that does not happen... but I have to disagree with the above statement.

A business suit or regular polo shirt is just another piece of clothing.  It does not represent service to community, state and nation.  Part of the goal of SLS is for students to be better-able to serve.  How can an SLS student become better-able to serve his/her community, state and nation if he/she doesn't have their heart in what they do?

A uniform, however, is more than just another piece of clothing.  It does represent service to community, state and nation, among other things.  It also represents those who fought and died so that we may be free.  When someone wears their uniform, they show that they are putting their heart into what they do and are proud to serve.  They are also showing that they want to be counted in as a member of the team and share a common bond with their classmates.

Now, if someone wears a suit or polo shirt to an SLS the exclusion of a uniform, they are showing the students/instructors that they aren't interested in putting their heart into what they do and that they are more proud to wear civilian attire than a uniform.  They are also showing that they don't care what kind of an example they are setting for their  peers.

Of course, if someone wears civilian attire because they don't have a uniform, then that's a different story.   But I would think that everyone enrolled in SLS would have at least the basic uniform by then.       

[Eagle400]

Add one senior that's never been a cadet.

A CAP Lt Col/USAF Colonel.

[Gunner C]

What's the uniform do for SLS- it does set a professional atmosphere.   It says "THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF.  TAKE IT SERIOUSLY."  Attendees in suitable civilian attire send the same message.

. . .They are also showing that they want to be counted in as a member of the team and share a common bond with their classmates.

. . . Now, if someone wears a suit or polo shirt to an SLS the exclusion of a uniform, they are showing the students/instructors that they aren't interested in putting their heart into what they do and that they are more proud to wear civilian attire than a uniform.  They are also showing that they don't care what kind of an example they are setting for their  peers.     

I guess the prevailing theory in CAP goes something like this:  If you meet the minimum standard, you can rise to the highest levels.  It should be: We expect that the future leaders of CAP exceed the prevailing standards, show that they lead by example, and actively promote the improvement of CAP.

We will NEVER improve CAP as long as we promote the minimum-standard-bearers to be our leaders.

GC

[jimmydeanno]

Please don't take this the wrong way sir, but you don't need personal experience with something to be able to talk about it or make observations.  Does a drug counselor need to have personal experience with sniffing coke and shooting heroin in order to counsel people on drug addiction?  Does a surgeon need to be a victim of a wound or injury in order to operate on a patient?

I'm going to disagree with you on this statement because you do need to observe something to make observations.  Without going to the class you can not tell me whether or not it needs to be improved.  You are right that you don't need to be a movie director to tell me if a movie is good or not, but you at least need to see the movie.

[Eagle400]

We will NEVER improve CAP as long as we promote the minimum-standard-bearers to be our leaders.

Very true.  Mediocrity does not inspire.

[Eagle400]

I'm going to disagree with you on this statement because you do need to observe something to make observations.  Without going to the class you can not tell me whether or not it needs to be improved.  You are right that you don't need to be a movie director to tell me if a movie is good or not, but you at least need to see the movie.

But what if it's well known that the course needs improvement?  What if you have it on good authority (aka having a reputable source) that the course needs improvement?  What if you've seen the average product of the course and conclude that it needs improvement based on what you have seen?

You are right sir, I have never been through SLS.  I've also never been president.  Doesn't mean I can't make observations and conclusions based on the performance of the POTUS (who I respect, by the way).

However, that doesn't mean I'm exempt from having to back up those conclusions, either. 

[Gunner C]

We will NEVER improve CAP as long as we promote the minimum-standard-bearers to be our leaders.

Very true.  Mediocrity does not inspire.

But it can make you a region CC. 

[jimmydeanno]

But what if it's well known that the course needs improvement?

Then you are operating of someone else's observations, not your own.  It is third party information at that point.

What if you have it on good authority (aka having a reputable source) that the course needs improvement?

Then you would be trying to improve it based of someone elses experience, not your own.

What if you've seen the average product of the course and conclude that it needs improvement based on what you have seen?

You still can't tell if it is the fault of the course or the student.  Take high school for example.  Why is it that most of the kids pass (minus the "no child left behind act")? Because they put in the effort and take things fairly seriously.  Some kids don't pass because they don't put in the effort.  Is it the course that made them fail or is it the student?  You can't tell because you didn't observe how things actually happened.  The teacher will tell you the course was great, the student will tell you the teacher sucked.  You won't know what the truth is unless you witnessed it first hand.

You are right sir, I have never been through SLS.  I've also never been president.  Doesn't mean I can't make observations and conclusions based on the performance of the POTUS (who I respect, by the way).

You can make judgments based off what you hear.  In the president case you are making first hand observations, you are watching him on TV, hearing him on the radio, seeing the laws being encacted, etc.

All I'm saying is that for you to really know if/how a course needs to be improved, or the quality of the instructors needs to be improved, you need to experience the course.  It's like a new reg for the cadet program coming out and you saying, "I don't like it" before even reading it.

[Short Field]

The quality of SLS and CLC is directly related to the quality of instructors. 

The new formats and material can be improved - but it is a great improvement over the previous versions.  At least one of the courses (I forget if it was both or which one if only one) was put together as a Air Command and Staff College project by a team of students (normally all USAF Majors).  It strongly reflects how ACSC trains future Colonels.  Most Seminars at ACSC are taught by the students in the seminar - based on the Instructor Guide material they are issued when picked to lead the seminar.

I have added extra sessions (e-Services & ES qualifications) based on class experience and desires but not dropped any sessions.  Remember - people attending these courses EXPECT to come away with something they didn't know.  Don't let them leave thinking they just went through a rehash of stuff they got before.

Uniforms really should be required - any authorized CAP uniform with the exception of "field" uniforms like BDUs, BBDUs, Utility Uniforms, and Flight Suits.   

[bosshawk]

May I respectfully suggest that we all go back to the original topic: uniforms.  Perhaps, in three pages, we have exhausted the opinions on the subject, but I doubt it.

If you are really interested in the content and the methods of instruction for these courses, suggest that a separate thread be created.

[arajca]

When I direct an any course, part of the announcement - which will come out a couple months ahead of the course - will include uniforms, in recommended order. Something like:

Uniform for the course is the service uniform. This is the AF blue short sleeve shirt w/o tie, Aviator shirt w/ blue trousers (skirts acceptable for females), or Aviator shirt with grey trousers (skirts acceptable for femlaes). All uniforms must have correct name plate and grade insignia. Ribbons, badges, and other insignia are optional. Uniforms must be worn IAW CAPM 39-1 and wing supplements. The golf shirt uniform or business casual dress is acceptable if the student does not have a service uniform. Battle dress, field, utility uniforms, and flight suits are not permitted. If you have any questions, please contact me at...

I think it needs to made clear what the preferred uniform is. Also, as director, you need to be willing to tell folks who wear any of the prohibited uniforms to either change or leave. That is something very few are willing to do. At the SLS and CLC I attended as a student, they attitude was "Well, since you're already here, we'll let it slide." IMHO, this sets a poor example.

[Eclipse]

^ I agree 100% on principle, and anyone who read posts by me a couple years ago would know I used to espouse the same thing.

However...

The cold reality sandwich that is trying to maintain viability and staffing in a volunteer scenario has softened my stance a bit.

I still think you need to set the bar very high, lead by example and exert positive peer pressure, but the the fact of the matter is that in many case we >ARE< "lucky they even showed up", and until we are at the point where we can turn away people who aren't 100% right all the time, we have to live with that.

Set the standard, let people know when they don't live up to expectations, but show some common sense reasonableness for areas that are gray, or non-critical.

In my AOI, I have been much more successful simply working my plan and expecting people to keep up, than by making specific issues with minor things.  I'll reach over and zip up a waist jacket, mention someone needs a tie-pin, or let them know their dress was not appropriate, but I'm not going to send someone home  from a non-ES activity for something like that.