Aircrew Wings

[Billy009]

Did I read the newly revised uniform manual correctly? They have either introduced wings for aircrew (non-observer/pilot) or perhaps it was always the case and only just noticed it. Would this be for any qualified aircrew member like a scanner?

[Alaric]

Did I read the newly revised uniform manual correctly? They have either introduced wings for aircrew (non-observer/pilot) or perhaps it was always the case and only just noticed it. Would this be for any qualified aircrew member like a scanner?

No, there are new wings but 35-6 has not yet been modified

[AlphaSigOU]

I don't think CAPR 35-6 has been updated with the new rating yet, but that would include mission scanner, aerial photographer and any other aircrew-specific position not a pilot or observer codified in the reg.

[vento]

And they are not available at Vanguard yet.

[Billy009]

Not yet

[Garp]

details and NHQ/DO guidance for wear
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2649/kw/aircrew%20badge/session/L3RpbWUvMTQwNDM0NTEwMS9zaWQvR0tvNHNqWWw%3D

[lordmonar]

Okay....now here's a quandary.

Being an MO is a prereq for being a GFSO and GFMC.....so for the last three years I have been logging my SO and MC flights as Observer time.

I recently just passed my 200 hours and got my Master Observer Wings.

So here is the question.

Do I have to go back and recalcuate my flight hours and split them up between MO, SO and MC times and put my Observer wings back on and then apply for the Senior AC wings?

Or do I keep my Master Observer Wings.....but I am now also eligible for Senior AC wings?

Also....a question for anyone on the NUC.......and AC badge team....what about the GFMC position?  Do where do those hours count towards?

[Garp]

new manual only allows for wear of one set of CAP wings at a time.

[lordmonar]

new manual only allows for wear of one set of CAP wings at a time.

Not the point....but does bring up another question.  Wing Precedence....if you are an MP, and MO and and an MS.....your left seat time counts for one set of wings, your right seat time counts for another and your back seat time for a third.

Is one set of wings required to be worn over another?  i.e.  if you are an MP/MO/AP and you decide to wear wings.....does it HAVE TO be pilot wings....or is it wearer's choice.

[Eclipse]

For that matter, who "certifies" the time, and who is going to OK the backlog of aircrew
who never tracked anything?

I can point to missions, and maybe even sorties, because those counted towards something,
but never gave a though to flight hours.

Common sense would indicate hobbs time would be the delimiter, and using that might actually
be possible to recreate a fair amount of the information needed.

[lordmonar]

Oh I got my log.

And that's another thing EServices should track.

The question is how is the time counted?

My CAP Log ($13 from Vanguard) has a column for Observer and a column for Scanner.

So the question is.....Do my GFSO flights count toward Scanner or Observer?  What do my GFMC flights count as?

For Pilots all you have to do is keep track of your missions....the rest is just based on number of flight hours (CAP, Military, GA, Commercial it does not matter) and time as a CAP Pilot.

Edited:  Just looked at 35-6 again......to be a CAP command pilot.....you only need 5 flights in a CAP aircaft (assuming you got the 2000 hours from somewhere else).

[Garp]

sounds like a Knowledgebase question

[Garp]

new manual only allows for wear of one set of CAP wings at a time.

Not the point....but does bring up another question.  Wing Precedence....if you are an MP, and MO and and an MS.....your left seat time counts for one set of wings, your right seat time counts for another and your back seat time for a third.

Is one set of wings required to be worn over another?  i.e.  if you are an MP/MO/AP and you decide to wear wings.....does it HAVE TO be pilot wings....or is it wearer's choice.

Manual just says, "When more than one CAP aviation badge is authorized, only one will be worn."  Looks like wearer's preference.

[Mitchell 1969]

sounds like a Knowledgebase question

I've known pilots (no star, no star/wreath) who ended up with Senior or Master Observer wings. It was a crapshoot. One said "pilot outranks Observer, regardless of level." Another said "star outranks no star." Unless and until somebody flips that coin officially, looks like wearers choice.

(Unrelated but perhaps interesting side note - Canadian WWI ace Billy Bishop was an observer before he was a pilot. His role in WWII was essentially that of "revered elder" and often presented pilot wings to graduates. At least once he appeared to present wings to observer graduates and wire his observer wings. Nobody argued with him.)

[lordmonar]

Just asked KB about where my GFMC hours count toward and if there is a precedence to the wings.

[Eclipse]

"pilot outranks Observer, regardless of level."

Hmm...let's all put money in the pool as to who said that.

Just as there is no precedence with the GTM badge, there's no precede with wing. 
You wear what you feel like wearing that you are qualified to wear.

I'll be happy enough to throw a few buckos at VG for the A/C basics, but I'm not going to bother
tracking flight hours for the upgrades.

[BSH]

Hopefully this'll help some of you. I inquired with Vanguard on the AC insignia while reading up on Mission Scanner yesterday. As a new guy Mission Scanner sounds interesting to me.

Dear Mr. Hawthorne,

Thank you for your e-mail.  We currently have the miniature BASIC AIR CREW wings (CAP0752AB) and regular size BASIC AIR CREW wings (CAP0752AC) available for purchase over the phone.  We are working on putting them on the website and should have them up shortly, but until then, you may purchase them from one of our customer service representatives at 1-800-221-1264.  We are currently in development of the embroidered wings and the SENIOR and MASTER ratings.


CINDY DEJESUS
CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE
1172 AZALEA GARDEN ROAD, NORFOLK, VA 23502-5612
P| (800) 221-1264 X 256 •  F| (757) 857-0222
WWW.VANGUARDMIL.COM | SIGN UP FOR OUR EMAIL LIST

I see no mention of the hotstamp for leather nametags though. Someone might follow up and inquire on their status of getting the hotstamp made.

[lordmonar]

Got my answers from KB.

On the subject of hours....GFMC (because it is right seat) counts towards Observer and my GFSO hours count toward AC.

On the subject of precedence of wings.....they said users choice.

[capmaj]

And I wonder if they will be ' earned for life', such as the GT Badges. Will a formerly qualified Scanner/Observer be able to wear them? Or will they have to be removed when currency falls by the wayside?

[Eclipse]

Why would they be treated differently?