DI

[lordmonar]

On the subject of what senior members should know about drill and ceremonies....

I don't think they need to know everything......even those "working CP"....those teaching or monitoring teaching drill should know it inside and out.

But rank and file SM should know the stationary drill...how to fall in, facing, present arms, right step, forward march, halt....but that's about it....so we could at least get them to fall in for a flag ceremony.

[bflynn]

Sometimes we need to just take ourselves a little less serious. 

Can't help it, I'm a serious person.  My humor is very dry, most people don't get it.

On the subject of drill - falling into formation is pretty simple.  Stand here, don't wiggle and don't lock your knees.  I suspect we have enough veterans to get that done without needing to train on it.

Volunteers have great energy.  If you direct that energy toward certain tasks, there is less left for doing the missions.  Don't ask your people to do anything that doesn't contribute to one of the missions.  I don't see that having a leadership officer conduct drill training to be something that contributes to any of our missions.

[johnnyb47]

With the Drill Test required now at every achievement (L2L) I wouldn't mind getting more into drill as a senior member.
It's hard to evaluate what you never have to learn.

[Major Carrales]

Sometimes we need to just take ourselves a little less serious. 

Can't help it, I'm a serious person.  My humor is very dry, most people don't get it.

On the subject of drill - falling into formation is pretty simple.  Stand here, don't wiggle and don't lock your knees.  I suspect we have enough veterans to get that done without needing to train on it.

Volunteers have great energy.  If you direct that energy toward certain tasks, there is less left for doing the missions.  Don't ask your people to do anything that doesn't contribute to one of the missions.  I don't see that having a leadership officer conduct drill training to be something that contributes to any of our missions.

Teaching Cadets drill is part of the Cadet Programs mission which is one of our three main missions.

[Eclipse]

Volunteers have great energy.  If you direct that energy toward certain tasks, there is less left for doing the missions.  Don't ask your people to do anything that doesn't contribute to one of the missions.  I don't see that having a leadership officer conduct drill training to be something that contributes to any of our missions.

It's called professionalism, appearance and pride - something sorely lacking and a major part of our mission.

[Cool Mace]

On the subject of what senior members should know about drill and ceremonies....

I don't think they need to know everything......even those "working CP"....those teaching or monitoring teaching drill should know it inside and out.

But rank and file SM should know the stationary drill...how to fall in, facing, present arms, right step, forward march, halt....but that's about it....so we could at least get them to fall in for a flag ceremony.

I don't think we need to know EVERYTHING, but knowing how it's supposed to be done helps a lot. When I was a cadet (and to this day), I have more respect for the seniors in CP who take the time to learn what the cadets have to go through. If we don't know what they need need to learn, how can we teach them? Isn't that part of the job when you're in CP? I know not every aspect of CP is like this, but I would say the majority.

[Cool Mace]

Volunteers have great energy.  If you direct that energy toward certain tasks, there is less left for doing the missions.  Don't ask your people to do anything that doesn't contribute to one of the missions.  I don't see that having a leadership officer conduct drill training to be something that contributes to any of our missions.

It's called professionalism, appearance and pride - something sorely lacking and a major part of our mission.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Couldn't agree more.

[krnlpanick]

Volunteers have great energy.  If you direct that energy toward certain tasks, there is less left for doing the missions.  Don't ask your people to do anything that doesn't contribute to one of the missions.  I don't see that having a leadership officer conduct drill training to be something that contributes to any of our missions.

It's called professionalism, appearance and pride - something sorely lacking and a major part of our mission.

Is there a ribbon for telling it like it is? If there is, then someone please award it to Eclipse for this post.

[lordmonar]

I should read the whole thing before I post....sorry

[lordmonar]

Sometimes we need to just take ourselves a little less serious. 

Can't help it, I'm a serious person.  My humor is very dry, most people don't get it.

On the subject of drill - falling into formation is pretty simple.  Stand here, don't wiggle and don't lock your knees.  I suspect we have enough veterans to get that done without needing to train on it.

Volunteers have great energy.  If you direct that energy toward certain tasks, there is less left for doing the missions.  Don't ask your people to do anything that doesn't contribute to one of the missions.  I don't see that having a leadership officer conduct drill training to be something that contributes to any of our missions.

CAP is also a paramilitary organisation....so all our members should at least know how to stand if formation and receive an award in a military manner.

[SStradley]

And FYI.....................  It's not "The Core". It's the Corp.

As in United States Marine Corps.

Just thought you should know.

Perhaps we are the Corp. as in the abbreviation for corporation. A corporation is what we are whenever we are not the USAFA. So if the USMC is the Corps then the CAP/USAFA can be the Corp. 

[BillB]

Since some people on CAPTalk say CAP is sying, does that mean the CORP is short for CAP CORPse

[Flying Pig]

We are thin on SMs right now. While there are a couple SMs that probably are more well prepared, I remember all the basics and have committed to giving myself a refresher prior to any instruction. After all, if I cannot correctly perform how can I expect the Cadets and SMs to do so. We are aware that SMs are not *required* to drill, but as you say it isn't a bad idea and we feel it will create greater cohesiveness within the squadron. Besides it hasn't been *that many* years since I drilled in H.S. - more than I would like to admit, but I am still a young man.

And I don't think there are any worries about going all FMJ - this is CAP not The Core

If you're referring to Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, that would be The Corps.

Muscles Are Required Intelligence Not Essential

As a former Sergeant of Marines and Infantry Plt Sq ldr and Plt Sgt, I can say whatever I want!

[bosshawk]

And you often do just that.

[Flying Pig]

^Theres the pot calling the kettle black

[bflynn]

Volunteers have great energy.  If you direct that energy toward certain tasks, there is less left for doing the missions.  Don't ask your people to do anything that doesn't contribute to one of the missions.  I don't see that having a leadership officer conduct drill training to be something that contributes to any of our missions.

It's called professionalism, appearance and pride - something sorely lacking and a major part of our mission.

Why do you say "sorely lacking" and "major part of our mission"?  Which mission requires a military appearance to accomplish?  Why do you say it is "sorely" lacking?  My experience has been that almost everyone puts good effort into complying with uniform regulations and does a good job accomplishing them. 

Could we be better in looking great and flying better?  Absolutely.  But I believe you can always improve those things.  The question is what is the benefit of a military appearance that helps us do what we do better?  How does a neat military appearance according to CAPR 39-1 help the guy in the field do his job better?

In the end, effort put into looking sharp is effort that doesn't go into other activities...I can shine my shoes or take BOQ....decisions, decisions....

[Flying Pig]

Volunteers have great energy.  If you direct that energy toward certain tasks, there is less left for doing the missions.  Don't ask your people to do anything that doesn't contribute to one of the missions.  I don't see that having a leadership officer conduct drill training to be something that contributes to any of our missions.

It's called professionalism, appearance and pride - something sorely lacking and a major part of our mission.

Why do you say "sorely lacking" and "major part of our mission"?  Which mission requires a military appearance to accomplish?  Why do you say it is "sorely" lacking?  My experience has been that almost everyone puts good effort into complying with uniform regulations and does a good job accomplishing them. 

Could we be better in looking great and flying better?  Absolutely.  But I believe you can always improve those things.  The question is what is the benefit of a military appearance that helps us do what we do better?  How does a neat military appearance according to CAPR 39-1 help the guy in the field do his job better?

In the end, effort put into looking sharp is effort that doesn't go into other activities...I can shine my shoes or take BOQ....decisions, decisions....

Where it helps is your command presence when dealing with outside agencies. The military seems to think its important.  LE and EMS feel uniform appearance, even in the field is important.  When CAP shows up to missions, outside agencies, for the most part usually think CAP is part of the military because most have never heard of it.  Ive been to missions where Ive heard people ask what CAP is, "I think its part of the Air Force, like Reserves or something"  Thats a quote from a Fed Agent while I was a mentor pilot at the DEA Overflight course.

Even in the field.  (Im not referring to combat).  Do you need to be spit an polished?  No, but you need to be squared away and professional.  When people all start showing up in different uniforms, different gear, or variations of approved uniforms it starts to give the impression that your just a gaggle.  After a few days out on a GT, OK, its not going to be maintained, but dont SHOW UP to a search base looking like you've already spent 5 days in the field!  Ive seen that on more than one occassion.  Dirty, scuffed boots and filthy gear and a wrinkled faded set of old BDUs arent impressing anyone.
Our volunteer SAR unit that is part of our Sheriff SAR is very aware of their appearance in the field.  5.11 cargo pants and the long sleeve SAR orange button up shirt and SAR team hat.  You really cant tell the difference between them and the full time Deputies on SAR other than not having a gun.

So does a uniform appearance make us actually do our jobs better?  Ehhhh, probably not, but it affects how people unfamiliar with CAP relate to us, and there is the attention to detail aspect that cant be overlooked.  If your uniform looks like $%^&, Id hate to see the rest of your gear.

[titanII]

Which mission requires a military appearance to accomplish?

I would say that a military appearance is integral to the Cadet Programs mission. And I think that many here would agree with me. Looking professional is a big part of leadership.

Your personal appearance will set the standard for
your unit. What you give, you'll get. If you look good, chances are
your troops will emulate you. If you look sloppy, chances are
your troops will emulate you.

-from Heirpower! by  Bob Vasquez, CMSgt, USAF, Ret.
Having a sharp, professional image sets the tone for you as a leader as well as your followers. If you are attaining excellence in uniform wear, then chances are that feeling will translate to how you do your job.

[abdsp51]

Perception is reality.  If you look like a duffle bag you will be thought of as a duffle bag, you look sharp you will be thought of as sharp.

[Flying Pig]

I dont want to take this to far off in a different direction, but you should do some study on police officer assault stats as it deals with appearance to understand an interesting human reaction as it deals with uniforms.  You will find that one of the primary reasons a suspect decides to attack an officer is the perceived lack of command presence, starting with uniform appearance.  Many suspects stated that the officers initial appearance started the ball rolling as to whether they would decide to attack.  The perception is by looking sloppy, you are sloppy.  Suspects noted looking at the pistol in the holster.  If they see dirt and lint on the rear sights of your gun, some interpreted that to mean your gun has been in its holster a while (meaning you may not shoot much).  If they could see your handcuffs (depending on the type of cuff case) and they were dirty or rusty, again.....you must not use them very often they believed.

Many young officers are of the misconception that letting their boots go unpolished and allowing their leather gear to get dirty and start turning brown and rough looking might make them look salty and seasoned and somehow cause suspects to believe they are "experienced".  When interviewing suspects who had attacked and/or killed police officers, studies showed the exact opposite.  It showed that officers who were polished, pressed with good looking equipment conveyed an impression of caring about their job which translated into "This cop must take this S--T seriously."  Thats a quote

When getting into the areas of physical fitness, there were obvious benefits to the officer in the way of perceptions, but not nearly as much as you might think.  What is also interesting about the study was the male or female, old or young seemed to have little to do with a suspects decision to attack the officer. 

Although we are not worried about being attacked at CAP members, I find in my 15years as a cop that gangsters and the criminal element operated very much in the realm of the primitive, simple areas of psychology.  They dont have the social traditions of politeness that is engrained in people normally.  If they dont like you, they tell you.  If they perceive they can hit you and knock you down, they will.  If they look at you and decide they cant win, they wont.  If you can stand toe to toe with a gang member or someone prone to violence and convince them they will lose based on your command presence and appearance you CANNOT convince me that uniform appearance in CAP has no bearing on how we are looked at. Think about your own experiences?  Weve all seen military people who are solid ie. A Marine Drill Instructor vs some schmuk who looks like hes wearing a tent as a uniform.  If you look like crap, your stock WILL go down.  If you cant spell or speak properly your stock will drop.  And youll have to work that much harder to rebuild it before you can move on.
Maybe we civilized people don't say it out loud, but somewhere in the deepest parts of our primitive senses, it does have an effect.  Why do you think uniform inspections are such a big part of a basic police academy?  Because what you look like affects what people think of you.  Nobody cares if its fair, nobody cares about "dont judge a book by its cover"  Why do we say things like that?  Those are things we tell ourselves to remind us that our brain holds on to initial impressions.

I work with a person who is a very high ranking official.  Smart, been around a while, seasoned.  But he looks like a sack of potatoes.  It is my belief that he would get much more done if he lost about 50lbs and if his uniform didn't look like it came out of the bottom of the hamper.  I think, actually I know,  he has to spend a lot of time talking to get people to look beyond his sloppy presentation.  In CAP, we deal with people in agencies who look at an unkept uniform and a lack of basic physical fitness as weakness and a flaw.  Are they going to punch you in the face over it like a gangster?  No, but the same psychological reactions are still present. Fair?  Nobody really cares if its fair.  Thats just how it is.

Basic uniform standards have been a hallmark of soldiering and leadership for 3000+ years and since the beginnings of organized professional armies. There is a reason too that only the elite of professional militaries are given discretion in the area of uniforms.  But even then, its mission specific, not a standard.