Culling the uniform manual...

[DNall]

Here's a radical thought:

1) eliminate USAF style uniform (including the "TPU" variant) for all senior members.
    Suddenly USAF will focus more on our capabilities than our appearance being confused with theirs

2) Replace USAF for adults with a more professional looking Corporate uniform....my suggestion is khaki, but perhaps we could do something in gray.....shirt with epaulets, slacks, overseas cap, optional dress jacket (also w. epaulets)

3) Let cadets keep USAF style dress/service uniform a la JROTC

4) EVERYBODY out of ABUs/BDUs or whatever, into a single tone (gray, navy blue, khaki...pick one) BDU style field uniform....we're not trying to camouflage, so why do it?

5) Pick a single color  (NOT used by AF) flight suit available in NOMEX

6) No more berets, scarves, aiguelettes, cords, sashes, bells, whistles EXCEPT for Honor Guards

7) Field uniform -- one set wings, one ES qual badge, US flag, name tape, CAP tape, blue embroidered grade (metal on caps!)

8) Flight suits --embroidered blue grade, leather name/aero rating patch, US flag

Flame 1 (not really)

Why? It'd just cost more w/o surplus stuff. Besides AF doesn't care so much about us looking like them or not. That's CAP that's obsessed w/ that issue. AF just doesn't want their airmen thinking what we say is a valid order from a legal officer. They don't want us making fools of them or make them look bad no matter what we wear. Far as capabilities they don't care very much about that either. What we do for them in the bigger scheme of things is quite small. They give us more support than we deserve for what they get back & they poay exactly as much attention to our capabiltiies as we deserve. CAP is it's own worst enemy. If you want a better CAP, more money, a better relationship w/ AF, anything, the things preventing that are on the CAP side & in our power to fix. Well in the power of our leaders anyway & hopefully its in pir power to fix them.

Disabled smileys - MIKE

[Guardrail]

Too radical a plan to even be considered...I'd prepare for a flaming.

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Why?...because you are asking unpaid members to trash maybe thousands of dollars worth of things they already have and replace it with stuff they will find offensive.  It would be viewed as distancing ourselves from the USAF.

Word!

[Camas]

I wish the white aviator shirts were cut the same as the blue ones though... I'm not umm... plump enough to pull off the aviator with military appearance and bearing. Not that I'm skinny, but I think the shirt's cut waaaay too big for the neck sizes.

If you're looking for a aviator shirt that looks like the blue one check out this page if you've got the physique.

[SAR-EMT1]

Cut all the variations of the Corporate Uniform. Since we MUST have a corporate uniform I say chose 1...ONE and stick with it. AE 1 to match the AF blues 1 to match the AF BDUs and 1 to match the Flight Suit PERIOD!

Get rid of the golf shirt if you aren't on the golf course

Get rid of all non-mission/skill patches on the BDU
Leave the nametag, CAP tag and the GTM/Wings/EMS patches
get rid of everything else including the US Flag

SWITCH PATCHES ON THE BDUS to MIDNIGHT BLUE AND OD, SAME AS AF

NO PATCHES ON BAGS EXCEPT MAYBE A NAME TAG

No NCSA bling on uniforms ae hawk scarves and NBB headgear

The Spec track badges for the blues need to be subdued- ae non colorized
just like the AF skills badges. Personally Id like to see them mirror AF in shape/design too. AE- more like the GTM badges with the wreath and all
...................
Thank you for your consideration   

- edited to correct spelling

[AlphaSigOU]

My take on the whole situation:

Say sayonara to the corporate grays. If we're gonna standardize on the TPU as the corporate uniform, do the following:

• Bring back the old blue CAP shouldermarks.
• Relax the grooming standard to allow neatly-trimmed beards/goatees.
• Kill the silver sleeve braid.

Golf shirt uniform: indifferent about it. However, use it only as an alternate flying/ES base uniform.

Keep the BDU simple. Nuke the rainbow colored activity patches. I don't mind the wing/group/squadron patch remaining.

Utility uniform: get rid of the aircrew look and adopt the dark blue nametape/CAP tape.

Patches on aircrew bags - OK, but allow a wing/group standard cloth embroidered nametag.

[JohnKachenmeister]

For getting rid of the blazer combo, remember, that is the uniform for IACE.  In many countries we are restricted from weaing the USAF uniform.

I could say that keeping it for IACE only would be cool, though.

And, I like the golf shirt for certain activities, but I'm kind of a casual-type guy.

[Hammer]

Here's what I would do if it were my say:
-Actually ENFORCE AF h/w standards on the AF-style Uniform
-Change the rank on the BDU hat to have CAP above it for both Cadet Officers and Senior Members
-Use the current Sq/CC Badge for both Sq/CC and Gp/CC
-Kill the TPU
-Change the way the Wings are worn to Military wings are ABOVE CAP wings
-Kill the Commissioning Braid UNLESS you have a Commission from the Military
-Require a white-on-blue nametape on the GORE-TEX Parka
-Remove the metal pin-on rank insignia from the BBDU hat
-Kill ALL wing patches, or move them to the pocket
-Keep the American Flag--you don't like it, go to Iraq
-All or none ribbons for BOTH CADETS AND SENIOR MEMBERS----you want to be like the Air Force, well they wear all or none
-On the Ribbons, either all Military, or all CAP, or all Military and CAP
-Have Vanguard make white or yellow-on-blue Military badges for the BDU's.  The reason i said white or yellow, is that some badges, such as USN, USMC, USCG, are gold, and should be kept in that color on the BDU's.
-Let Air Force Commanders wear their Commanders' Badge in the location taht it's currently worn on their Air Force uniform
-Let the Navy Command Ashore and Command at Sea badges be worn
-Let ALL Military badges be worn on the AF-style uniforms

THat's all that I can think of for now, but will post more when I think of stuff.

Forgot one:
-Let current MILITARY Flyers wear their leather jacket with a CAP Nameplate with the Service Uniform and Flight Suit

[Hawk200]

This thread has definitely gone outside what I was looking for. There is a lot of disagreement on what someone else would eliminate. I don't want that, I want each persons input on what they would get rid of.

I'm trying to figure out how much commonality of opinion there is on what people find extraneous. We could make it far easier to be uniform, if there were fewer differences between uniforms.

And in a few days, I'll go on the record myself on what I would eliminate. 

For the time being, please just make an input on that. I'm trying to do this as fact gathering, not create disagreement.

[MIKE]

Guys, please try to keep to only those existing items you want to eliminate, and not adding new items... If you want to add a new item... Start a new thread... I will say no, lock it and claim my 5 bucks from Monty.  

[DogCollar]

I woul eliminate anything that doesn't enhance a clean, crisp look.  It seems to me that the purpose of wearing a uniform is to be...well...uniform!  The only "distinctives" to a uniform I would want to see are grade insignia and specialty insignia, i.e. Chaplain, Medical Officer, Pilot Wings, etc...

[Monty]

Guys, please try to keep to only those existing items you want to eliminate, and not adding new items... If you want to add a new item... Start a new thread... I will say no, lock it and claim my 5 bucks from Monty.  

No trippin' you up, eh?   

[Hawk200]

Guys, please try to keep to only those existing items you want to eliminate, and not adding new items... If you want to add a new item... Start a new thread... I will say no, lock it and claim my 5 bucks from Monty.  

Let's just say I've thought about that. And I'm strongly considering doubling that pot.

(Yes, I have Paypal too!)

[fyrfitrmedic]

My 0.02 worth:

Simplicity is its own elegance - get rid of the cartoon patches and all the extraneous nonsense.

[Trung Si Ma]

Eliminate Membership Ribbon - you have to pass Level 1 to wear the uniform, therefore the uniform is the membership ribbon.

Eliminate Leadership Ribbon now that we have badges for each specialty.

Eliminate Command Ribbon.

Allow wearing only the highest received senior training ribbon.

Allow wearing the SAR ribbon only until you receive a FIND ribbon.

Eliminate the Cadet Orientation Pilot Ribbon.

Eliminate the special activity ribbon, national cadet competition, and national color guard ribbons from the senior uniform.

Allow the Encampment Ribbon (with no attachments) to be worn only by seniors who are not eligible to wear a Mitchell, Earhart, Eaker, or Spaatz and attended the encampment as a senior.

Eliminate the Unit Citation Ribbon.

Eliminate rank insignia on the flight suit - it's already on the leather badge.

Eliminate the ES Patches.

Eliminate color patches on BDU style uniforms.

[MIKE]

Something drastic from me:  Eliminate all CAP awards and decorations... in preparation for total overhaul of the CAP awards system along Air Force lines. 

[smj58501]

Something so drastic words can't describe.... establish a one month moritorium on uniform threads! 

Before everyone gets upset, that was a joke. Have a CAP kind of day!

[DNall]

Something drastic from me:  Eliminate all CAP awards and decorations... in preparation for total overhaul of the CAP awards system along Air Force lines. 

I could go for that, but honestly we're not that far off. Just needs a good going over. Few add deletes, tewak the standards, no problems.

You get that thread to lock yet, cause I can go start "do we need a pink sash for all our stupid patches"

[MIKE]

Something drastic from me:  Eliminate all CAP awards and decorations... in preparation for total overhaul of the CAP awards system along Air Force lines. 

I could go for that, but honestly we're not that far off. Just needs a good going over. Few add deletes, tewak the standards, no problems.

Nah... Complete overhaul.  Maybe take some design elements from some current awards, and the corresponding USAF award, but still all new and distinctive.  I was just looking at the USAF awards to see how they could match up, but if I start a thread, I'll have to lock it. 

You get that thread to lock yet, cause I can go start "do we need a pink sash for all our stupid patches"

No, not yet, and I really need the cash... I have uniform bling to buy. 

[DNall]

You know we had a thread a while back that talked about which AF decs were awardable to civilians & asking for help on the AFI to clear up a proceedure similiar to how CGAux works that. It might be fun to play with a new matrix like you're describing & fit those in. I might just do that thead tomorrow or something.

I'll have to make sure you can lock the pink sash thread first so you can rush out & buy that new mini-GT badge. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

I can't remember where it was, but we discussed making CAP awards comparable to AF awards once... I remember I suggested that the O-pilot ribbon, SAR ribbon, Drug Ribbon, etc. all be combined into a "CAP Air Medal" awarded for a certain number of missions/sorties regardless of type.  There were some other good ideas, too, but that should be another (or resurrected) thread.

As far as eliminate, ALL color patches from the BDU.  Name, Civil Air Patrol, Rank, Wings, GT badge, and that's it.  I can live with the flag, but the idea of some wings having wing patches and others making it optional is no good.  Wing patches should be part of our history.