No Cadet Uniform To Be Funded By CAP For First Year Cadets?

[lordmonar]

JROTC maintains a supply of uniforms.

They are controlled via hand receipts.

The FCU goes directly to the cadets....it does not go throught the squadron at all except for a report of who has gotten a FCU issue.
I don't know why it would be considered fraud.  No where does it say that cadets will be issued a free uniform if and only if they can't find/buy/borrow a uniform from some other source.

The problem is that we have a retention issue and we issue out XX number of uniforms out each year to people who quit.  So the question is.....in the intrest of saving money....do we not issue out any uniforms at all until we are sure they are going to stay?

So what is the impact of doing so?

1)  Ned has said that surveys show that cadets with an FCU isssue are more likely to stay.
2)  Low income cadets would have to scrape up all that much more money...i.e. less likely to join in the first place.
3)  Squadrons would have to work harder to secure sources of unifroms if they want to reduce the impact of 2 above.
4)  Less professional apprerance as more squadrons would allow too big/too small, too old, too worn out uniforms beacuse they can't find low cost alterntives to the FCU.

I am not making a stance on this issue one way or the other......I am only pointing out the pertenant issues.  I can see both sides of the issue.

[RADIOMAN015]

The FCU goes directly to the cadets....it does not go throught the squadron at all except for a report of who has gotten a FCU issue.
I don't know why it would be considered fraud.  No where does it say that cadets will be issued a free uniform if and only if they can't find/buy/borrow a uniform from some other source.

I'm a bit confused, you made a statement that even if the (your) unit had  CAP uniforms that fit the cadets and issued it to the cadets, all the cadet still filled out the form/computer request to get a new uniform.  SO when the new uniform comes in do all the cadet gets to keep the new uniform OR is the new uniform OR the old used uniform turned back into supply    Also my understanding is the new uniform is shipped to the unit not directly to the individual cadet.

Shouldn't our system mirror what the JR ROTC program does for uniforms, after all we are both under the same command
RM 

[Major Carrales]

The FCU goes directly to the cadets....it does not go throught the squadron at all except for a report of who has gotten a FCU issue.
I don't know why it would be considered fraud.  No where does it say that cadets will be issued a free uniform if and only if they can't find/buy/borrow a uniform from some other source.

I'm a bit confused, you made a statement that even if the (your) unit had  CAP uniforms that fit the cadets and issued it to the cadets, all the cadet still filled out the form/computer request to get a new uniform.  SO when the new uniform comes in do all the cadet gets to keep the new uniform OR is the new uniform OR the old used uniform turned back into supply    Also my understanding is the new uniform is shipped to the unit not directly to the individual cadet.

Shouldn't our system mirror what the JR ROTC program does for uniforms, after all we are both under the same command
RM

The new uniforms can be shipped to the home, or, as in our unit, to a place that will insure delivery.  Many of our cadets were frequent movers...moving as many as three times in a given year or between parents.  Thus, it was an unofficial policy for the uniform to be delivered to the school we meet at to insure delivery (especially after one cadet reported his uniform was delivered to a neighbor!!!) 

The On line module asked for a shipping address and what amounts to a "billing address" provided by whatever address was indicted online. 

[lordmonar]

The uniforms we maintain on supply...we don't want back.  You do not want to go through the PITA that JROTC goes through with their uniform inventories.

Also we are really lucky to have a place to store the uniforms....but we don't have anywhere near the space it would take to maintain a ready supply for a squadron our size.

[jeders]

PHall
I believe it was sent to all Squadrons. It's dated in the 1990's, but has not been revoked or superceded and is still in effect. The original letter was sent to all AFROTC and AFJROTC units.

Correction: I just looked for the letter and it's dated 26 June 2003and it's listed as AFJROTC Policy Letter #04

Could you post a copy of that letter?

[Major Carrales]

OK...then i am assuming this will mean that cadets can attend encampments and fly O-Flights in a tee shirt and jeans.  So much for getting promoted since the "wear my uniform properly" part of the cadet oath cannot be accomplished.

[BillB]

Jeders

I don't have a scanner to copy it. I'll mail a copy to CAPHistorian and he can post it. He doesn't do anything else anyway.

[FW]

OK...then i am assuming this will mean that cadets can attend encampments and fly O-Flights in a tee shirt and jeans.  So much for getting promoted since the "wear my uniform properly" part of the cadet oath cannot be accomplished.

IF cadets can no longer receive an Air Force style uniform in their 1st year, I would venture to say the  cadet "basic" uniform of white shirt, black pants and shoes be accepted for O-Flights and other cadet activities.  If grade and ribbons are to be worn on such a "uniform", they would be instructed to wear it properly.....

BTW; are we worried about saving money or retaining cadets in the program?

[BillB]

FW   Cite please for that white shirt, black pants and shoes uniform. 

[davidsinn]

Why is it blasphemy to suggest that cadets buy their own uniforms?

[SARDOC]

Why not just make it a requirement that the uniform get issued to them at encampment...Sized and Ordered by squadrons..Delivered to encampment staff...funded by wing but reimbursed by the Air Force to make sure it's done in a timely manner.  They will be taught to wear the uniform correctly.  Most that drop out in their first year in my experience never attend encampment...but also encourages cadets to attend encampment at their earliest opportunity.  Just an Idea..I'm sure people will start picking away at the suggestion...but that's all it is.  The Current method isn't meeting someone's standards so they are looking at cutting it entirely so maybe we could brainstorm and come up with an alternative.

[MIKE]

The base alterations shop is going to go nuts... unless you are going to set up your own hemming station.

[BillB]

At an encampment there is no time for cadets to go to Base Alterations shop.

SARDOC Where did you get the idea someone is looking to cutting the CFU out entirely?  another of those urban legends??

[FW]

FW   Cite please for that white shirt, black pants and shoes uniform.

There is nothing to cite.  It was a "uniform" we told cadets to wear before they earned their Curry back in the day.  Would we wish to make it official for the first year of a cadet's membership if a FCU wasn't available?

The problem, IMHO; is saving the few dollars in postponing the FCU till the cadet renews worth the (most likely) decrease in retention? 

[Major Carrales]

Why is it blasphemy to suggest that cadets buy their own uniforms?

Wow...a "CLASS WARRIOR" among us.  CAP is not just for the rich.

Because not everyone has access to uniform items.  To expect a cadet to earn vast amounts of money when they are 12 is not a reality in South Texas, or most places.

Adults are a different matter.

Why should JROTC get free uniforms and CAP not?

[Major Carrales]

FW   Cite please for that white shirt, black pants and shoes uniform.

There is nothing to cite.  It was a "uniform" we told cadets to wear before they earned their Curry back in the day.  Would we wish to make it official for the first year of a cadet's membership if a FCU wasn't available?

The problem, IMHO; is saving the few dollars in postponing the FCU till the cadet renews worth the (most likely) decrease in retention?

At the school we meet at students wear white or grey polo shirts.  When we first started, until USAF uniforms for available, cadets wore these shirts with BDU pants.  Yes, it was not officially a CAP uniform but it was uniform until the proper items arrive.

It is critical to have the cadets learn uniformity.  Getting them in uniform quicly is key to developing "squadron" mentality.  The move would mostly likely, in my experience, be bad for retention in that they will not "look" like cadets and this, will not "be" cadets mentally.

[SARDOC]

Alright...I Misspoke about cutting entirely, I meant cutting it for First Year Cadets.  If a Cadet is past their first year go ahead and Issue via the normal process but if they are within their first year they can get it issued at encampment.  As far as Alterations...they can get measured their  First day, Alterations done and delivered to them by Day 4.  I'm not too familiar with the activity at encampment but I could imagine that with good planning it could be done...usually it's just a pair of pant that need hemmed.  We aren't looking to have the entire uniform tailored...just the basics.

[HGjunkie]

...but if they are within their first year they can get it issued at encampment...

Just wondering, would that be a good idea? The logistical aspect of that doesn't seem really feasible if it is actually possible. I can understand if the Wing itself had a maintained stock of new(ish) Blues. And having a bunch of blues tailored (even the basic pant hemming) sounds like a lot of extra $$$.

[ol'fido]

The point is moot. Finding that much time at a summer encampment would be very difficult. At a weekend encampment, forget about it. I'm the scheduler at IL Summer Encampment and there is no time for something like this. Eclipse can probably tell you what kind of time crunch a weekend encampment has.

[majdomke]

Since the uniform has to be approved once the cadet orders it, it should be an item of discussion with senior staff before giving the go ahead. If the cadet is active and shows signs of sticking around then approve. If they rarely show up or just don't appear to give a dang, then say no until they shape up. I personally like to get them outfitted right away so they can start fitting in. I also have a strong contract with parents about returning uniforms if they quit and a very high retention rate. It's pretty rare for me not to get uniforms back and has been no problem since I implemented the new return contact signed by the parents.