No Cadet Uniform To Be Funded By CAP For First Year Cadets?

[RADIOMAN015]

Check out the slides on the latest NEC meeting.  Apparently with about 50% of cadets leaving the program by the first year, looks like they are going to look at possibly of NOT issuing uniforms to cadets in the first year of membership.

Perhaps simply cadet will just have a CAP Tshirt, wear jeans and have a little rank on the TShirt for the first year.
RM 

[Pylon]

A more reasonable approach would be to ensure these FCU-issued uniforms are recovered by the squadrons when a cadet leaves the program.  Some units do this already and it helps create a good supply of uniform for those cadets who do stay in and outgrow or wear out their FCU issue.

[jimmydeanno]

Maybe part of the problem is that when the new cadets order the uniform it takes upwards of a year to receive it. 

The FCUP is a good program, if it is implemented as designed. 

However, I think that cooler heads will prevail and the NEC will see the value in getting the cadets in uniform within the first year. 

[cap235629]

three of our cadets who recently ordered had outgrown them before they FINALLY arrived

[RADIOMAN015]

A more reasonable approach would be to ensure these FCU-issued uniforms are recovered by the squadrons when a cadet leaves the program.  Some units do this already and it helps create a good supply of uniform for those cadets who do stay in and outgrow or wear out their FCU issue.

Personally as a taxpayer my feeling is that there should be NO issue of uniforms unless the parent/guardian specifically acknowledges that the uniform is the property of CAP as funded by the USAF and will be return IF the member leaves CAP.   HOWEVER, apparently CAP has NO legal right to get back a uniform that they want to go to small claims court for SO there's likely a lot of losses, that's why it was brought up and is being studied.
RM         

[NCRblues]

A more reasonable approach would be to ensure these FCU-issued uniforms are recovered by the squadrons when a cadet leaves the program.  Some units do this already and it helps create a good supply of uniform for those cadets who do stay in and outgrow or wear out their FCU issue.

Personally as a taxpayer my feeling is that there should be NO issue of uniforms unless the parent/guardian specifically acknowledges that the uniform is the property of CAP as funded by the USAF and will be return IF the member leaves CAP.   HOWEVER, apparently CAP has NO legal right to get back a uniform that they want to go to small claims court for SO there's likely a lot of losses, that's why it was brought up and is being studied.
RM         

CAP has every right to get back corporate property, included in that is issued uniforms.

This is a fast way to kill the cadet program in less than well to do areas, because sometimes the only hope of getting a uniform for those type of kids is that uniform program....

[N Harmon]

Personally as a taxpayer my feeling is that there should be NO issue of uniforms unless the parent/guardian specifically acknowledges that the uniform is the property of CAP as funded by the USAF and will be return IF the member leaves CAP.

Then you might be happy to know that before cadets can even join CAP, their parent/guardian must stipulate as such on the Application for Cadet Membership (CAPF 15):

I understand if my child receives a free uniform and withdraws from the program during the first year that I assume responsibility for this uniform on behalf of my minor child and the uniform must be returned or replaced.

[Major Carrales]

I have to agree, it take months for those uniforms to come in.   In any case, we usually have uniforms form them...or acquire uniforms and stockpile just for that reason.

[coudano]

it's moderately common practice for us to issue to new cadets out of storage,
and then when their fcu comes in we put it straight into the stockpile

in any event, any time *any* cadet (not just first year) leaves the program, we try with pretty good success, to get back the blues.  They often give us other stuff back too, just because they don't want it anymore.

[majdomke]

Personally as a taxpayer my feeling is that there should be NO issue of uniforms unless the parent/guardian specifically acknowledges that the uniform is the property of CAP as funded by the USAF and will be return IF the member leaves CAP.   HOWEVER, apparently CAP has NO legal right to get back a uniform that they want to go to small claims court for SO there's likely a lot of losses, that's why it was brought up and is being studied.
RM         

I include a Uniform Return Contract with our potential cadet packet. It states that any uniform item issued by the squadron or USAF are the property of CAP and must be returned when the cadet leaves the program. It is signed by the cadet and parent.

[majdomke]

Check out the slides on the latest NEC meeting.  Apparently with about 50% of cadets leaving the program by the first year, looks like they are going to look at possibly of NOT issuing uniforms to cadets in the first year of membership.

Perhaps simply cadet will just have a CAP Tshirt, wear jeans and have a little rank on the TShirt for the first year.
RM

Seems to me the better solution would be to address cadet retention rather than penalizing the remaining 50% who do stick it out. The Cadet Great Start program is a good start but it really falls on the wing/group/squadron to create a program that keeps cadets interested and busy.

[MIKE]

Honestly, I don't think this would be that big of a loss... particularly among first year cadets.  From my own experience the service uniform is not the primary uniform of the CP in my area, despite what CAPM 39-1 may say.  It has become a once a month uniform among meeting nights dominated by the BDU.

[Pylon]

Honestly, I don't think this would be that big of a loss... particularly among first year cadets.  From my own experience the service uniform is not the primary uniform of the CP in my area, despite what CAPM 39-1 may say.  It has become a once a month uniform among meeting nights dominated by the BDU.

Very true, but if blues only get used once a month or less (and only because we like to rotate the uniforms) and cadets don't get a free blues uniform, I can see a lot of cadets just not buying a blues uniform at all.  After all it's a value proposition.  If you wear BDUs every week and can participate in weekly meetings, bivouacs, SAREXes, orientation flights, etc. all with just BDUs, then how many cadet's families are going to want to buy a blues uniform (at probably a $100-$150+ investment per cadet) when (until they want to go to an encampment or parade) it's just a "nice to have" item?   Then you end up with cadets who can't participate in the parade next weekend or attend the squadron awards banquet because they don't have blues and aren't willing to make the big investment for one event.  It also then mentally increases the barrier cost of going to things like encampment (in a parent's mind, if the cadet has to buy a blue's uniform they wouldn't need otherwise, the perceived cost of encampment to them becomes encampment fee + cost of blues + cost of gear needed).

[Ned]

Seems to me the better solution would be to address cadet retention rather than penalizing the remaining 50% who do stick it out. The Cadet Great Start program is a good start but it really falls on the wing/group/squadron to create a program that keeps cadets interested and busy.

Good point.

As it turns out, our figures show that cadets who receive a free uniform have a higher retention rate than cadets who do not.  IIRC, by a little under a third.

In terms of overall first year retention, if you look back historically, it has pretty much always hovered at the 50% rate for first-year cadets.  Give or take.

Although that sounds bad, it is similar to what other youth organizations experience:  Scouting, Royal Rangers, band, and the wrestling club all do about the same.  I suspect part of the issue is the age cohort we are dealing with  13-16 year olds, all of whom are busy trying to figure out who they are.  And frequently "try on" activities, hobbies, and organizations to see if it suits them.

I'm not saying we can't do better.  Clearly we can.  Mostly by making sure that Tuesday night is an exciting and challenging event for out cadets.  Every . . . . darn . . . .week.  Good meetings raise retention, sucky meetings lower it.  "It's all about Tuesday night."

As to the OP, the matter is being reviewed by a special NEC committee; no changes are planned anytime soon.  Complicating the issue is that this is a use of appropriated funds.  If we decide not to offer free uniforms to our cadets in all likelihood we will simply lose the money.  It is not a matter where we can simply transfer the funds to another purpose.

Ned Lee
CP Guy

[ol'fido]

In an ideal world, instead of having the uniform mailed to the cadet weeks or even months after they join, they would get a voucher redeemable at any MCSS that sells AF uniforms for the items normally supplied. The cadet could actually get a uniform that fits with a little wiggle room for growth. But a lot of our cadets don't live near a base and it might be an accounting nightmare.

[Ned]

In an ideal world, instead of having the uniform mailed to the cadet weeks or even months after they join, they would get a voucher redeemable at any MCSS that sells AF uniforms for the items normally supplied. The cadet could actually get a uniform that fits with a little wiggle room for growth. But a lot of our cadets don't live near a base and it might be an accounting nightmare.

Heck, I'll do you one better.  I've been pressing for a process that would allow each cadet to be issued an electronic "voucher" that would allow them to log into aafes.com and order.  Cuts out a lot of middlemen. 

We're working on it, but nothing moves swiftly when it involves aafes and DEERS.

[Eclipse]

We're working on it, but nothing moves swiftly when it involves aafes and DEERS.

I have to say that I will believe it when I see it, considering that we apparently have members being told they can't even shop there right now.

[FW]

Check out the slides on the latest NEC meeting.  Apparently with about 50% of cadets leaving the program by the first year, looks like they are going to look at possibly of NOT issuing uniforms to cadets in the first year of membership.

Perhaps simply cadet will just have a CAP Tshirt, wear jeans and have a little rank on the TShirt for the first year.
RM

I think this is, at least, the third time CAP has looked into the issue.  The program has changed over the years and, the budget for the uniforms has been scrutinized many times. 

If it is to continue, I would love to see a streamlined and easier way for cadets to get them; I hope an acceptable solution is found soon.

[RADIOMAN015]

We're working on it, but nothing moves swiftly when it involves aafes and DEERS.

I have to say that I will believe it when I see it, considering that we apparently have members being told they can't even shop there right now.

Another way to get uniforms is to find squadrons that are next to military clothing stores and send them a check to do the shopping for you.   I know at our local base, I was recently talking with the manager of that area and basically some sizes are very slow at coming in.  The AF/AFRES/ANG I think are looking at FINALLY requiring those folks that work in offices to start wearing the blue uniforms again so this is putting pressure on the logistics system that is based upon historic demand.  It was absurd that everyone was running around bases in BDU's/ACU's etc. 
RM   

[ol'fido]

No, it's not absurd. This has gone back and forth a few times over the past couple of decades that I know of and probably since the AF's aircraft inventory was made entirely by Wright. The usual reason for switching to BDUs/ABUs is to show that the AF personnel are warriors and then another commander thinks all the BDUs/ABUs look sloppy and puts everyone back in blues. Put me down solidly in favor of the BDU/ABU/flight suit.