Flying commercial in CAP uniform

[DrJbdm]

   I agree that it is far more comfortable to fly in civilian clothes then in uniform. Besides, when you are in uniform you are on a stage of sorts, every eye is on you, many questions go thru their minds, no one may talk to you but that doesn't mean that everyone isn't noticing you. Every action you make will be seen by everyone and magnified. If you don't enjoy being a player on a stage, then travel in something other than a uniform.

   As to the poster who stated that it only takes a couple of minutes to put on a uniform. I disagree, it takes several minutes to properly put on a set of blues. It isn't something you can just throw on and have it look great. It takes care and attention to detail to wear the uniform properly. Give me 15 to 20 minutes and I can probably do it, as long as everything is properly ironed and laid out.

[Hawk200]

As to the poster who stated that it only takes a couple of minutes to put on a uniform. I disagree, it takes several minutes to properly put on a set of blues. It isn't something you can just throw on and have it look great. It takes care and attention to detail to wear the uniform properly. Give me 15 to 20 minutes and I can probably do it, as long as everything is properly ironed and laid out.

Agreed. And a strong argument for traveling in civvies.

[Pingree1492]

    As to the poster who stated that it only takes a couple of minutes to put on a uniform. I disagree, it takes several minutes to properly put on a set of blues. It isn't something you can just throw on and have it look great. It takes care and attention to detail to wear the uniform properly. Give me 15 to 20 minutes and I can probably do it, as long as everything is properly ironed and laid out.

Yeah it is... if you practice enough     Still vividly remember the "super-man" drills we did in AF ROTC.  Going from PTUs to Service Dress, or BDU's to Service Dress in under 2 minutes, with a uniform inspection immediately following.    We definitely learned how to "move with a sense of urgency."  We didn't wear our uniforms when traveling to Field Training either, in fact we were even discouraged from wearing any USAF or ROTC Det shirts going to and from Field Training.

Now, back on topic... I wouldn't wear my uniform while traveling to a CAP activity unless the activity specifically calls for me to do so.  I rarely wear my uniform when driving somewhere over an hour either.  It's just easier and makes the uniform look better upon arrival if you don't wear it while you're traveling.

[mynetdude]

    As to the poster who stated that it only takes a couple of minutes to put on a uniform. I disagree, it takes several minutes to properly put on a set of blues. It isn't something you can just throw on and have it look great. It takes care and attention to detail to wear the uniform properly. Give me 15 to 20 minutes and I can probably do it, as long as everything is properly ironed and laid out.

Yeah it is... if you practice enough     Still vividly remember the "super-man" drills we did in AF ROTC.  Going from PTUs to Service Dress, or BDU's to Service Dress in under 2 minutes, with a uniform inspection immediately following.    We definitely learned how to "move with a sense of urgency."  We didn't wear our uniforms when traveling to Field Training either, in fact we were even discouraged from wearing any USAF or ROTC Det shirts going to and from Field Training.

Now, back on topic... I wouldn't wear my uniform while traveling to a CAP activity unless the activity specifically calls for me to do so.  I rarely wear my uniform when driving somewhere over an hour either.  It's just easier and makes the uniform look better upon arrival if you don't wear it while you're traveling.

I haven't really had the need to wear uniform while traveling much other than to encampment or other activities especially when in the CAP van (although uniform wear in CAP vehicles is not entirely required unless involved with ES or whomever is in charge says so).

If I am driving a COV, I prefer to be in uniform it not only looks good but it makes sense if you are affiliated with an organization that wears a uniform you might as well IMHO (that does not mean you need to wear your blues, it could be BDUs/field uniform).

[PA Guy]

When traveling, particularly on airlines, I prefer to remain as anonymous and low profile as possbile, no uniforms, logos etc.

[necigrad]

Being VERY familiar with airline security (12 years with the airlines) I have a few comments on this.  As mentioned, most will think you're a RM Officer when in any uniform except the polo; they'll quite possibly give you a free upgrade as possible.  I refused to let the plane leave with an empty first class seat if there was one of "them" (military, police, fire) in coach.  I don't care if we're late, I'll fight with supervisors bosses two levels above me on it.  So you might get a free upgrade.  That's the good side.

The bad side however...  We've already covered comfort and uniform condition.  Security, as mentioned, will be exceptionally inconvenient.  I guess if you want to deal with these issues...

Forget the good and bad, forget the letter of the law and the confusion in the law.  Our policies are pretty obvious (even though they're clear as mud) that, as a general rule, one should NOT wear their uniform unless traveling directly to or from an event.  There certainly will be exceptions like the HGA, and in my humble opinion that cup of coffee on the way to a SAREX is necessary.  By and large however, there's no need.  Don't wear it.

[Eagle400]

What he said!!

:clap:

v/r,

Michael Andrew Theodore Sapowsky Smith

[raivo]

It tends to get ignored, but technically military members aren't supposed to travel first-class while in uniform. Perception of government waste and all that. 

Then again, I saw a Colonel doing it... 

[Eagle400]

It tends to get ignored, but technically military members aren't supposed to travel first-class while in uniform. Perception of government waste and all that. 

Then again, I saw a Colonel doing it... 

Funny you mention... I've been thumbing through AFI's trying to find this, but have always come up short. 

Can anyone provide a reg cite?

[Cecil DP]

It tends to get ignored, but technically military members aren't supposed to travel first-class while in uniform. Perception of government waste and all that. 

Then again, I saw a Colonel doing it... 

Funny you mention... I've been thumbing through AFI's trying to find this, but have always come up short. 

Can anyone provide a reg cite?

Try the GTR's (Government Travel Regulations)

They"re not supposed to "Buy" a first class ticket. Upgrades are fine, as long as it doesn't cost the government money.

[capchiro]

Many of my cadets have been instructed to wear uniforms while travelling.  Some flew to an airport where they were to go to the USO to meet their contact and then they rode on military transportation (bus) for 2-3 hours to the base.  Being in uniform made them easier to identify by their contacts.  Seems like a good idea to me.

[raivo]

I can't remember the joint travel regulation, but AFI 36-2903 page 10 says:

Air Force personnel may not wear their military uniforms when using frequent flyer miles to upgrade to business or first class. Thus, even when an upgrade to business or first class accommodations is legitimate, military personnel should avoid wearing the uniform to avoid the public perception of the misuse of government travel resources, which generates unnecessary complaints.

[Eagle400]

Thank You Kindly. 

Now, is this all because of Conflict of Interest?  (Perceived or actual?)

[Fuzzy]

No its because its a perceived waste of government funds.

Joe Taxpayer sees a fellow in uniform snoozing in first class and thinks he is paying for Corporal Fizzy to live it large, up in the front of a jumbo jet.

Complaints are obviously filed by other passengers when they see someone in uniform up in first class, either because they know what kind of travel is typically permitted by military voucher or because they think the government is wasting money by moving troops around first class. So the civie in question is trying to stop the service member from abusing government funds.

They don't realise the service member didn't use government funds for the upgrade and the whole issue is better avoided altogether by wearing civvies.

[mynetdude]

No its because of its of a perceived waste of government funds.

Joe Taxpayer sees a fellow in uniform snoozing in first class and thinks he is paying for Corporal Fizzy to live it large, up in the front of a jumbo jet.

Complaints are obviously filed by other passengers when they see someone in uniform up in first class, either because they know what kind of travel is typically permitted by military voucher or because they think the government is wasting money by moving troops around first class. So the civie in question is trying to stop the service member from abusing government funds.

They don't realise the service member didn't use government funds for the upgrade and the whole issue is better avoided altogether by wearing civvies.

So that means if you are flying in uniform and the airline offers a free upgrade you still must refuse it due to this public misconception.

[raivo]

So that means if you are flying in uniform and the airline offers a free upgrade you still must refuse it due to this public misconception.

That's what they told us in OTS.

I had to do it once, too. It hurt. 

[RADIOMAN015]

While in the AF, I only flew one time in uniform on a commercial airline in a 20 year career (and this was because we were late getting out of the meeting and had to make a scheduled flight back to woods in Michigan), so I've really got to wonder WHY any senior (or cadet) member needs to be wearing a uniform in the first place at other than while at a meeting or in attendance at a CAP sactioned activity.    It's a heck of a lot more comfortable flying in civilian clothes (both physically & mentally) than flying in any uniform.

I think logically from a cadet protection and just plain personal security basis, it's just more prudent to not wear a uniform on a civilian airliner, or for that matter any public transportation.   There's a fair number of unstable people running around, and there's always the chance that being in uniform could get you singled out.   There's also the potential of terrorists (however small).

RM

[mynetdude]

While in the AF, I only flew one time in uniform on a commercial airline in a 20 year career (and this was because we were late getting out of the meeting and had to make a scheduled flight back to woods in Michigan), so I've really got to wonder WHY any senior (or cadet) member needs to be wearing a uniform in the first place at other than while at a meeting or in attendance at a CAP sactioned activity.    It's a heck of a lot more comfortable flying in civilian clothes (both physically & mentally) than flying in any uniform.

I think logically from a cadet protection and just plain personal security basis, it's just more prudent to not wear a uniform on a civilian airliner, or for that matter any public transportation.   There's a fair number of unstable people running around, and there's always the chance that being in uniform could get you singled out.   There's also the potential of terrorists (however small).

RM

I hate to say this, but if cadets HAVE to wear uniforms and as you said puts them at a possible risk (not just cadets, but senior members too).  Why not develop a uniform that includes a Tshirt/long sleeve shirt and slacks with some kind of CAP identification whether it be a logo or the name of the event and color to readily identify cadets deplaning/arriving at the baggage area.  THEN when they get to their place of event they should switch to AF blues or whatever they need to wear and I understand that part of the HGA is to have the cadets wear their uniforms while traveling so that they can show their best decorum, etc etc... but at the risk of safety? I'm not sure I would tolerate that.

IF I have to wear a uniform I would opt to wear the polo/slacks while traveling, at least I don't look military-ish and I still look more civvie. I can bring more formal uniforms with me, AF blues or white aviator shirts and maybe BDU/field uniform depending on what I'll be doing.

[DC]

^Just what we need, another uniform. Let's hope the National Board doesn't see this....

Just wear civvies, it's more comfortable, safer, and generally less hassle. If an activity requires that you wear a specific uniform while traveling, oh well. Doesn't make any sense to me, but whatever, salute and execute.

[mynetdude]

^Just what we need, another uniform. Let's hope the National Board doesn't see this....

Just wear civvies, it's more comfortable, safer, and generally less hassle. If an activity requires that you wear a specific uniform while traveling, oh well. Doesn't make any sense to me, but whatever, salute and execute.

I was just saying, I'm not in agreement with another uniform but I am also in agreement with being able to IDENTIFY cadets whom are attending an activity and we technically already have a uniform that exists for them to wear but currently regs does not permit cadets to wear them AFAIK which is the blue polo shirt/slacks.

Me on the other hand I will wear civvies whenever possible, in fact Friday I will be leaving for the Puyallup area I certainly don't plan on being in uniform air, bus, train, POV.  I tend to have a habit of going home in uniforms, that's going to change starting this next trip.