Flying commercial in CAP uniform

[mynetdude]

A question to Brad's post: may wear service dress uniform or light blue, short or long sleeve
shirt/blouse with tie/tab and the all-weather coat, overcoat, and
raincoat when traveling by commercial means (other than to and
from local CAP activities)

So this means that if I travel to local squadron meetings by commercial means (taxi, bus, or local rail) that I can't wear my uniform??  That makes no sense at all.  Can anybody explain that to me??   

If you read the other parts of the this thread, you'll see other parts of regulation was quoted saying you CAN, but as usual we all are reading too much into this. KISS, don't wear your uniform during the travel unless you have to.

[heliodoc]

^^^

With light rail and other modes of transportation other than POV

These are all valid points when the day comes that CAP needs a complete rewrite of the 39-1.  Trying to copy AF regulations for travel issues is archaic, at best, for CAP.  If CAP is trying to be "Corporate" while trying to be military....then it is time for CAP to address these issues at all these National Board meetings.  If they can spend time on other diddly uniform issues, then it is time for CAP Inc to sit down with the AF and make the case that cadets and some Seniors do not always travel in the same fashion that AF and US Government does under GTR's

Time for CAP to address these issues distinctly, coherently, and SIMPLY so the entire 55K membership is not so lost and confused with lost and confused NHQ regs that are not written coherently.

Otherwise, the simplicity of wearing uniforms to and fro squadron meetings, activities, NCSA's, etc become a real consternation for the CAP member who like to do what is right or simple and according to reg  instead of making project work out of uniform wear while on travel to many CAP functions.

[a2capt]

I gather the intent, particularly with commercial aviation is meant to be a recruiting opportunity, and in Utopia, it may very well be. However not everyone is a recruiter. I would figure that those who recognize they are not, should probably not partake.

[AirAux]

Therein lies the gist..  The ones that shouldn't are incapable of recognizing they are the "ones".  Therefore, the booger eating Lt. Colonel standing in front of a formation of cadets is blissfully unaware of what he is doing and all around him are afraid to mention the Emperor's new clothes..

[PA Guy]

A lot of special acts require cadets fly in uniform, Service Dress.

Why not? Besides its uncomfortable. Might recruit someone.

Why? NESA specifically asks that you do not wear uniform when traveling to NESA via commercial means.

Ditto for COS. No uniforms when traveling.

[wingnut55]

Why wear the Uniform?? you are not on Active Duty! Active Duty Military Personnel are discouraged from wearing the uniform on Commercial flights, unless unavoidable.

I am not ashamed to wear the CAP uniform but you cannot be serious unless you need a mirror so you can watch yourself. In that case why are you in CAP? 

[raivo]

The RM discourages this for force protection reasons; I would consider it wise to do the same.

[DrJbdm]

Lt,

   I have to disagree with you up to a point, I have seen many members of our active duty military at the airport in uniform, most of the time it's either soldiers in the ACU or airmen in the ABU. A few times I have seen them in service dress, most as of late it's far more common to see them flying in ACU/ABU.

   However, I will say that I had seen some opinions from the SecDef come across my desk saying what you have said, but that was a few years back. I haven't seen anything in the past year or two regarding it. Perhaps you can shed something a little more current.

  As for recruiting, I am not sure that we should be proactively recruiting while travelling in uniform, I think the best recruitment is done without us ever saying the first word. Our actions in uniform speak louder than our words, if we are sharp and look like we belong to something special then others will come to us and ask us how to be a part of it. The less we speak, the more effective.

   I don't see anything wrong with flying in uniform or for that matter with wearing mess dress on a cruise ship for the formal night, but that's a different discussion already debated. I will say this, if either is done then we should take the utmost care and due diligence in making sure that we wear the uniform to CAP and Air Force standards and look as close to the image of an Air Force officer as we can.

  I say Air Force officer and not CAP officer, because no one out in the world knows what the image of a CAP officer should be. We are the Air Force Auxiliary and we wear an awfully close version of the Air Force uniform, we should take the care to wear the uniform as an Air Force officer would. To do otherwise is disrespecting the uniform.

[vmstan]

As for recruiting, I am not sure that we should be proactively recruiting while travelling in uniform, I think the best recruitment is done without us ever saying the first word. Our actions in uniform speak louder than our words, if we are sharp and look like we belong to something special then others will come to us and ask us how to be a part of it. The less we speak, the more effective.

I don't see anything wrong with flying in uniform or for that matter with wearing mess dress on a cruise ship for the formal night, but that's a different discussion already debated. I will say this, if either is done then we should take the utmost care and due diligence in making sure that we wear the uniform to CAP and Air Force standards and look as close to the image of an Air Force officer as we can.

I say Air Force officer and not CAP officer, because no one out in the world knows what the image of a CAP officer should be. We are the Air Force Auxiliary and we wear an awfully close version of the Air Force uniform, we should take the care to wear the uniform as an Air Force officer would. To do otherwise is disrespecting the uniform.

I would agree 1000% with everything you said.

[RiverAux]

I think this is one of those situations where just because you can do something, doesn't necessarily mean you should or are required to do something.  I personally would not consider it just because I'd rather travel comfortably.    If the schedule is so hectic that there isn't time to change then I would consider it a logistical failure.  After all, it only takes a couple of minutes to put on a uniform. 

[jimmydeanno]

There are some activities that CAP participates in that REQUIRE that you wear the uniform when traveling.  IACE is a perfect example.  The program requires that you wear the "travel" uniform (IACE polo, khakis, black shoes, black belt).  It includes the flights from your home airport to the point of departure and the international flight.

However, I suppose the IACE uniform is a bit different in that it doesn't infer grade/rank/or military affiliation.

[raivo]

Lt,

   I have to disagree with you up to a point, I have seen many members of our active duty military at the airport in uniform, most of the time it's either soldiers in the ACU or airmen in the ABU. A few times I have seen them in service dress, most as of late it's far more common to see them flying in ACU/ABU.

   However, I will say that I had seen some opinions from the SecDef come across my desk saying what you have said, but that was a few years back. I haven't seen anything in the past year or two regarding it. Perhaps you can shed something a little more current.

I don't have anything in particular (that I can share), but I recently went through the DoD's level 2 anti-terrorism training class, which went into pretty scary detail about terrorist organizations; there's been several failed plots and one successful plot in recent years in which military members have been targeted. Which is not to say that terrorists are hiding behind every tree, but as the recent events in NYC remind us, they're definitely out there. Put it this way:

1) Is it required to travel in uniform? No.
2) Is there any tangible benefit to travelling in uniform? No.
3) Does it add to your value as a potential target? Yes.

Of course, people do it anyway, but I personally wouldn't.

[PHall]

Next time you're at a major airport, look around and see how many people in military uniform do you see, people just out of Basic Training don't count.
You probably won't see many, people going to or from their Mid-Deployment leave are about the only exceptions.

The military doesn't require you to be in uniform, even if you're flying on a Government Transportation Request.
And about the only thing you accomplish by wearing your uniform on the plane is that you now have a wrinkled, dirty uniform.

[vento]

Anybody considered the indignity that TSA brings to the uniforms? Note, I am not blaming the TSA, it's just a necessity at airports for everybody's safety.

I travel commercial by air very often and I've witnessed more than once RM travelling in uniforms. While there is little problem with the ABU or similar utility uniforms, there is always an issue with the dress uniform.

Believe me, if you are in the Air Force style uniform, TSA will ask you to remove the shoes, remove the jacket, remove the belt, and also scan your pilot wing and rack of ribbons with the magic wand like crazy, and also pad you down. Granted they do the same thing to civilians wearing civilian clothes, I always thought it brings some form of indignation to the military uniforms for what the uniform represents.

[Ned]

Not to mention the indignity of explaining certain things.

I was once escorting a group of cadet officers in service dress through a security checkpoint, and was dying with laughter as the cadet had to explain to the officer why there were metal objects under his trousers at the mid-thigh level.

(Shirt-garters, of course)

The officer did not even remotely understand, and kept asking for a more detailed explanation.

"No, see it is important to keep your shirt tucked in, so I have these elastic straps attached to my socks . . . "

"What did you say is attached to your socks?  Why?"  Can you show them to me?"

I could not speak as too entirely different cultures clashed at the metal detector.

Lord, it was funny. . . . . .

[raivo]

That's awesome! 

Another shirt garter story... back WIWAC, the Bookstore only sold the crappy "Y" shirt-garters that didn't have much pull. In order to get the decent ones, you had to go to your local military base, and my mom wasn't exactly in a hurry to drive two hours so I could buy shirt garters.

So, being the resourceful 14 year old I was, decided I would go on the Internet and look for websites where you could buy garters.

Oops.

[Strick]

Leaving MGM, (NSC2009) we had several Senior Memebers wearing Service Dress on the flight to Atlanta.  I was wearing civies and the lady next to me asked why the pilot was seating in the back of the AC.  Senior memeber wearing full service dress.  I would not wear the uniform.  You can change before boarding the flight.  Besides I would have worn my flightsuit instead

[bosshawk]

Ned's story is spot on: you ought to see me with my two artificial knees(five lbs of steel in each knee).  TSA folks generally have no sense of humor and little more intelligence.

[Eagle400]

Ned's story is spot on: you ought to see me with my two artificial knees(five lbs of steel in each knee).  TSA folks generally have no sense of humor and little more intelligence.

I'm sorry to hear of this, Sir; God Bless You, and Thank You for your sacrifices!



About this whole issue...

Listen, if it's blues then there's not much to worry about.  We should focus on looking the part instead, and follow through. 

This will impress DHS/TSA more than just the wearing of a uniform.

But far more importantly, the civilians we serve (whom we are also)!  Let's keep this in mind as we move forward... 

[a2capt]

"What did you say is attached to your socks?  Why?"  Can you show them to me?"

I could not speak as too entirely different cultures clashed at the metal detector.

Lord, it was funny. . . . . .

LOL.. probably not nearly as gut busting.. But after the CAWG Conference that was held at McClellan (Sacramento), I came home in uniform due to the way we had to check out, and what we scheduled, etc. and being just about an hour flight, not much worse than carpooling/driving to some CAP events, time wise.

Yes, they did wand every piece of metal, yes they were equally perplexed about why there were "hits" in several .. places .. and then down at lower end, too.

About the best part was when I reached down to pull up a pant leg to point it out, the person jumped back in a way like I was reaching to expose something.

I should have mentioned this earlier, though I wasn't the only one that day, in the airport. There were several others,  I think maybe even a couple on the same Southwest flight.