sUAS Progress in Ops Quals

[etodd]

In Ops Quals, under the Pilot heading, you'll now see sUAS. The page for Form 5u is there. And you also see the sUAS SQTR Worksheet under the SQTR link.  Don't start filling it out just yet. The SETs need to be grandfathered into the system to start validating people.  You can start uploading your F5u, Questionnaire, SQTR, F91u, and Part 107 certificate. Its all coming together soon now.

[Capt Thompson]

Noticed there are two new FEMA courses on the new SQTR's, something to knock out while on self isolation:

IS-3: Radiological Emergency Management - https://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=IS-3
IS-5.A: An Introduction to Hazardous Materials - https://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=IS-5.a

[MacGruff]

Do those two FEMA courses carry over to the CAP Ops equivalents?

Is it a matter of taking them, like IS-200, say, and then uploading the certificate to prove completion and get the credit?

[Capt Thompson]

Do those two FEMA courses carry over to the CAP Ops equivalents?

Is it a matter of taking them, like IS-200, say, and then uploading the certificate to prove completion and get the credit?

Yes, they have added them into Ops Quals, so you can upload your certificates just like 100, 200 etc.

[Capt Thompson]

Also, if you haven't yet done Aircrew Professionalism, that's a requirement for the sUAS specialties as well, you can find that in AXIS. I took both of the FEMA courses, they are pretty dry and IS-3 is kind of detailed so take notes, IS-5a is long and boring but the exam isn't as bad, it's a lot of common sense.

[etodd]

Noticed there are two new FEMA courses on the new SQTR's, something to knock out while on self isolation:

IS-3: Radiological Emergency Management - https://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=IS-3
IS-5.A: An Introduction to Hazardous Materials - https://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=IS-5.a

Not new. Have been on the SQTR since Fall of 2018.

Its a total of SIX  FEMA courses for sUAS. Plus getting the Part 107.  Its a heavy commitment getting all of that done in order to be a CAP sUAS Mission Pilot.  I have had many people interested in the program in our Wing, but once they see the list of things to do before they can actually fly ..... crickets. Only the dedicated work through it.

[Capt Thompson]

Its a total of SIX  FEMA courses for sUAS. Plus getting the Part 107.  Its a heavy commitment getting all of that done in order to be a CAP sUAS Mission Pilot.  I have had many people interested in the program in our Wing, but once they see the list of things to do before they can actually fly ..... crickets. Only the dedicated work through it.

True, it is a lot if you are new to ES, but if you are qualified elsewhere you should have most of them already. For those wondering, here is the list:

General Emergency Services CAPT 116
ES Continuing Education CAPT 117 Part 2
Introductory Communications User Training (online portion can be done now, practical will have to wait for one on one)
Aircrew Professionalism - In the new AXIS system in LMS
IS-100.C: Intro to the Incident Command System - https://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=IS-100.c
IS-200.C: Basic Incident Command System for Initial Response - https://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=IS-200.c
IS-700.B: An Introduction to the National Incident Management System - https://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=IS-700.b
IS-800.C: National Response Framework, an Introduction - https://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=IS-800.c
IS-3: Radiological Emergency Management - https://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=IS-3
IS-5.A: An Introduction to Hazardous Materials - https://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=IS-5.a

It is a lot, but many of our members have a lot of time on their hands right about now!

[etodd]

True, it is a lot if you are new to ES, but if you are qualified elsewhere you should have most of them already.

Yep. So far all the sUAS MPs in my Wing are also airplane MPs.  They already have the first 4 FEMA courses. And can get the free Part 107 with just a simple, open book, online test.  Makes it much easier.

[PHall]

Noticed there are two new FEMA courses on the new SQTR's, something to knock out while on self isolation:

IS-3: Radiological Emergency Management - https://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=IS-3
IS-5.A: An Introduction to Hazardous Materials - https://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=IS-5.a

Not new. Have been on the SQTR since Fall of 2018.

Its a total of SIX  FEMA courses for sUAS. Plus getting the Part 107.  Its a heavy commitment getting all of that done in order to be a CAP sUAS Mission Pilot.  I have had many people interested in the program in our Wing, but once they see the list of things to do before they can actually fly ..... crickets. Only the dedicated work through it.

Gee, just like all the hoops you have to jump through to become a Mission Pilot.
What a coincidence!!!

[etodd]

Gee, just like all the hoops you have to jump through to become a Mission Pilot.
What a coincidence!!!

Exactly. Was planned that way from the beginning.  The price of admission to the airplanes for a Senior is getting your PPL on your own. Same with sUAS, get your Part 107, on your own. Yes, everything in sUAS is deliberately patterned after the aircraft side. F5u, SQTR, F91u, etc.

[Holding Pattern]

I've got everything but the 107 out of the way. I just need a few extra hours per week, if anyone can find them send them this way, thanks in advance

[MacGruff]

I'm actually looking at the technician side ... not interested in the piloting part (heresy around here, I know!        )

Same requirements thought. Already knocked out most of the IS classes, and found out that I can do the "new-ish" IS ones as well. Thanks for the confirmation.

Good way to spend the extra time since I am not running to squadron meetings or my other CAP responsibilities these days.

[CAP9907]

I'm actually looking at the technician side ... not interested in the piloting part (heresy around here, I know!        )

Same requirements thought. Already knocked out most of the IS classes, and found out that I can do the "new-ish" IS ones as well. Thanks for the confirmation.

Good way to spend the extra time since I am not running to squadron meetings or my other CAP responsibilities these days.

You're not alone, I've got no interest in piloting but the Tech/support side seems more interesting to me.

~9907

[BJD]

You're not alone, I've got no interest in piloting but the Tech/support side seems more interesting to me.

Piloting UAS for CAP will be more interesting when we progress to more capable platforms.

[etodd]

Piloting UAS for CAP will be more interesting when we progress to more capable platforms.

The DJI gear we use for training, is quite fine for its squadron level purpose.

We 'are' using more capable gear on some actual missions. That gear comes out in the field.

For local use, even the DJI gear can do quite a good job when it comes to flying patterns for SAR, or flying photo missions for disaster situations for your local agencies.

[BJD]

Piloting UAS for CAP will be more interesting when we progress to more capable platforms.

The DJI gear we use for training, is quite fine for its squadron level purpose.

We 'are' using more capable gear on some actual missions. That gear comes out in the field.

For local use, even the DJI gear can do quite a good job when it comes to flying patterns for SAR, or flying photo missions for disaster situations for your local agencies.

Your definition of "more capable" and mine are different, but that's OK.

[etodd]

Your definition of "more capable" and mine are different, but that's OK.

 I'm sure we are actually on the same page. It's just the realities of the situation. Especially budgetary ones. Until the Air Force gives our sUAS program a budget closer to what we have for new Cessnas every year, will just have to work with what we have. LOL

 There is some really nice gear at headquarters, and talk of getting some nice gear at region level soon, but region level would have the gear many hours away from some locations. It may all come in time, but will take a huge budget before we can have heavy lifting drones with FLIR capability at every squadron. 

[TheSkyHornet]

I'm not a CAP ES guy. I know minimal, at best, about the ongoings of any of it.

Is there a requirements outline that quantifies what "mission capable" is depending on various scenarios? Like a briefing/inspection card for scaled missions involving x-variable?

[etodd]

I'm not a CAP ES guy. I know minimal, at best, about the ongoings of any of it.

Is there a requirements outline that quantifies what "mission capable" is depending on various scenarios? Like a briefing/inspection card for scaled missions involving x-variable?

Good question. And I can see how it would a good thing for Incident Commanders so they would know what to ask for in certain situations.  But on the other hand, before a document of that type could be formulated, passed up and down the chain, and then get actually implemented ... it would already be outdated and useless. LOL

Its something that in an event, the IC would ask the DOu "what do we have that could work in this situation?"  There are just so many variables.

For a simple missing person search during the daytime, a small $1500 drone can do an incredible job. When it gets dark, you need the much more expensive heavy lifter with FLIR or some type of thermal detection.

Post disaster, tornado, flood, hurricane .... again the cheap drone can get great results in small defined areas, to go along with the wide swatches collected by APs in the Cessnas. But if they need medium size areas and ortho mapping type work, then larger fixed wing drones may be the best tool.

Technology changing everyday. It will take large budgets for CAP to keep up. Especially if we want gear at Squadron level for immediate use, and not have to wait for gear to be transported 300 miles away.  The cheaper DJIs that some Wings and Squadrons are buying for training, can be used to assist local agencies for some basic uses as above.

Its a program in its infancy. First order of business is to see how many Part 107 holders we can get involved in every Wing, and get them signed off as sUAS Mission Pilots. Even though we are almost 2 years into this, the numbers of people interested enough to get their Part 107 and work through the requirements are lower than I would have thought. We need as many sUAS MPs as we have Cessna MPs, if not more.

[etodd]

The SETs for sUAS SQTRs are being setup a Wing at a time. Should proceed quickly. In my Wing I have already entered the data for the first few MPs and Techs, and everything is flowing through the channels for validation. Working on the rest now to get us up to date. It now shows up on their 101 Cards, and in eServices reports.

Took about 18 months, but its here.

(In CAP time, that might be fairly quick.)

[kcebnaes]

Looks like OHWG is up and running. I was able to get both my uMP and uTechnician ratings finalyl uploaded, approved, and on my 101 card. Very excited this is starting to feel more and more "official!"

[PHall]

Now the million dollar question, will this new capability get used? And not just for training and evaluation missions.

[THRAWN]

Now the million dollar question, will this new capability get used? And not just for training and evaluation missions.

Why should it be any different from any other ES specialty?

[PHall]

Now the million dollar question, will this new capability get used? And not just for training and evaluation missions.

Why should it be any different from any other ES specialty?

sUAS is not unique to CAP. Just about any SAR agency has their own sUAS. And the bigger ones like the Los Angeles County Fire Department and Cal Fire have the bigger and more capable units that can do way more then ours can.
Not to mention that are about a dozen states where their Air National Guard units are equipped with Predator/Raptor UAS which can and have been used on State missions like Disaster Relief and such.
That's why.

[etodd]

sUAS is not unique to CAP. Just about any SAR agency has their own sUAS. And the bigger ones like the Los Angeles County Fire Department and Cal Fire have the bigger and more capable units that can do way more then ours can.
Not to mention that are about a dozen states where their Air National Guard units are equipped with Predator/Raptor UAS which can and have been used on State missions like Disaster Relief and such.
That's why.

Everyone always gets stuck on SAR.  Heck, 95% of our saves are with the Cell Phone Forensics Teams. And what is that now, five people?

Yes I know 'some Wings' are still active in SAR, but they are by far the exceptions, and not the rule.

One example. FEMA has no interest in flying drones for themselves, any more than they want to fly airplanes.  Our airplanes will get the first wide views of large areas, then sUAS teams can be sent into targeted areas for low level detailed inspections.

There are MANY localities, small areas, that will not have this type of gear. If your Squadron is in one of those, seek out MOUs with local agencies, so they can call NOC and request you. The success of the sUAS Program will largely be grass roots like this. Not so much national, as it will be those few squadrons that desire to make it work, and get out in the local community and sell it.  The other Squadrons ... will find their niche other than sUAS.

[Eclipse]

Now the million dollar question, will this new capability get used? And not just for training and evaluation missions.

Why should it be any different from any other ES specialty?

sUAS is not unique to CAP. Just about any SAR agency has their own sUAS. And the bigger ones like the Los Angeles County Fire Department and Cal Fire have the bigger and more capable units that can do way more then ours can.
Not to mention that are about a dozen states where their Air National Guard units are equipped with Predator/Raptor UAS which can and have been used on State missions like Disaster Relief and such.
That's why.

Yep.

CAP will have a handful of press-friendly missions a year that look good on FaceSpace and at CAP-USAF briefings
but will have little major impact and will likely have "back stories" such as the recent post-hurricane missions.

Any agency of consequence has their own UAV people and if they don't, probably don't need one except in
unusual circumstances.

Which doesn't even address the "It's in Joe's trunk." issues which are a problem across the board.

And sadly, it's no different then CAP's other ES missions right now which are in about the same shape.

[Eclipse]

Everyone always gets stuck on SAR. 

"Stuck?"  It's a stated mission.  Until that changes, members aren't "stuck" they are focusing
on what is supposed to be a core competency.

FEMA has no interest in flying drones for themselves,

Correct, but irrelevant.

"FEMA" doesn't actually "do" anything. They are essentially a coordination agency for managing money.
Private contractors will continue to fulfill all but the most opportunistic needs for DR incidents.

There are MANY localities, small areas, that will not have this type of gear. If your Squadron is in one of those, seek out MOUs with local agencies, so they can call NOC and request you. The success of the sUAS Program will largely be grass roots like this. Not so much national, as it will be those few squadrons that desire to make it work, and get out in the local community and sell it.  The other Squadrons ... will find their niche other than sUAS.

Yeah...no.

That's the rhetoric, but that math has never translated meaningfully for other SAR/DR ops and won't
for UAVs.  I've had these direct conversations with these "small areas".

They either aren't interested, can ask the news helo to take some pics for them in exchange for
an interview, or "The Chief's nephew got one of the drone things for his birthday..." (etc.).
For those with a special need, 1-800 drone is in their contact list.

And as to the average unit offering services to a local agency, that's not how CAP works.
Unless you believe every unit is going to wind up with a pro-sumer UAV and trained ops
(in an organizaiton that purports to be expert at SAR-DF and has only a few receivers in every state)
you really don't understand the question.

Like every other CAP mission, few and far between will be a self-sufficient unit, so any
commitment of resources will have to be done in coordination with (at least) Group, and probably wing,
and that's >AFTER< the capabilities are ramped up and established.

That's a year+ away (AFTER the org is back to a steady state from C19) and on the optimistic side.

[MacGruff]

Wanted to come back to this topic. I finished the IS-3 training and as others have stated, while the FEMA web site tells you that it takes about 10 hours to get through this course, it only took me about 3 and a half.

Wasn't as bad as some of the others, but there were several head scratchers in there!

[etodd]

Wanted to come back to this topic. I finished the IS-3 training and as others have stated, while the FEMA web site tells you that it takes about 10 hours to get through this course, it only took me about 3 and a half.

Yep. And IS-5.a  is about the same. Both are open book. I think the 10 hour quote is someone who wants to read a couple paragraphs and then spend 30 minutes thinking and soaking it in, then read another 2 paragraphs ....

You can make of it what you want.

[AirDX]

So how does one go about training for and getting a Form 5U? I can't find a sUAS IP or check pilot anywhere.

[etodd]

So how does one go about training for and getting a Form 5U? I can't find a sUAS IP or check pilot anywhere.

Ask your Wing DO, if a sUAS DOU has been assigned in your Wing. If so, start talking with that person and see what they have planned for your Wing. If no one has been assigned yet, maybe send out a Wing wide email and ask if anyone in the Wing has been working with Lt. Col. Austin Worcester at Hdqs. If so, start talking with that person.

If you cannot find ANYONE in your Wing working on this yet .... you just got elected.

I assume you have your Part 107(?) How many hours logged?

Have you completed all six FEMA courses listed on the SQTR? If not, start there.  Then start studying the sUAS Mission Task Guide. and all the areas of the SQTR.

Once completing all that, maybe poll your Wing again and see if any is working with Hdqs yet. If not, contact Worcester and let him know you would like to get your Wing started in the program. See if he will let you do the video F5u and F91u and get you signed off as an Instructor. Then you can start training others in your Squadron and Wing.  This is how this program has been built. Grass roots, from the ground up. One Wing at a time.

BTW, before contacting Hdqs, let your Squadron, Group, and Wing Commanders, as well as the Wing DO, know of your plan. Get it approved and run with it.

[AirDX]

We have a DOu. I've talked with him.

I have a Part 107 ticket. I just started logging time, so officially about 4 hours.  Goes up about 40 minutes a day. :-)

I've done all 6 FEMA classes.

I'll talk with the DOu and see what his ideas are. I'd be happy to be a catalyst.

Thanks for the words.

[THRAWN]

Now the million dollar question, will this new capability get used? And not just for training and evaluation missions.

Why should it be any different from any other ES specialty?

sUAS is not unique to CAP. Just about any SAR agency has their own sUAS. And the bigger ones like the Los Angeles County Fire Department and Cal Fire have the bigger and more capable units that can do way more then ours can.
Not to mention that are about a dozen states where their Air National Guard units are equipped with Predator/Raptor UAS which can and have been used on State missions like Disaster Relief and such.
That's why.

You missed my point. To your point about if it will be used for anything other than training, the answer is it will probably be used as often as any other ES specialty. Lots of preparation for the big dance, but never an invite...Until wings get their act together an start developing and living MOUs again, this is going to continue to become another internal milestone that has little or no applicability to the greater ES/EM/DR world. Sure, initially, there were some successes. As time goes on, though, the calls will get less frequent, and those that are made will be answered by CAP members to busy with "other stuff" to participate. Or the props are broken. Or the battery pack is out for a refresh. Or the gear is locked up in the squadron...You know how this goes. Hope I'm wrong, but history says otherwise...

[Eclipse]

You missed my point. To your point about if it will be used for anything other than training, the answer is it will probably be used as often as any other ES specialty. Lots of preparation for the big dance, but never an invite...Until wings get their act together an start developing and living MOUs again, this is going to continue to become another internal milestone that has little or no applicability to the greater ES/EM/DR world. Sure, initially, there were some successes. As time goes on, though, the calls will get less frequent, and those that are made will be answered by CAP members to busy with "other stuff" to participate. Or the props are broken. Or the battery pack is out for a refresh. Or the gear is locked up in the squadron...You know how this goes. Hope I'm wrong, but history says otherwise...

So much this, especially the bolded, with my only issue being the use of the word "again" in regards to MOUs.

I know there are anomalies, or that wings have taken the soft language of MOUs and through the perseverance
of certain members turned that into mission work, but then when that person leaves or is tired, the calls stop,
and the mission and activity ends.

Also this: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=25079.msg434463#msg434463