Flash Mirror idea

[Smithsonia]

WE came across a problem this weekend when we had multiple ground teams closing on a target and a plane above. With people flashing the aircraft.

Flash Mirror needs 2 things.
1) A training protocol - as in, when you see the flash you rock your wings -5,6,7 times.

2) different colored mirrors. So the plane can tell one ground team from another. In this I think we can use a bit of colored film (not too opaque to keep the mirror from flashing but not too light so that the color is undetectable) We are going to experiment.

In the mountains of the west. Comm can be a problem. Mountains played havoc this weekend with the radios. We had ground teams trying to fix the plane into a circle pattern. The radios and comm-shack traffic was overloaded. So this simple device could at least relieve one issue. Get the plane to circle for a while until the comm traffic catches up with the needs of the various ground teams.

Let me know what you think.

If you can, experiment yourself. We figure we can do a series of tests on the ground driving around in cars on the open prairie and resolve most of the issues. Green, Red, Yellow smoke would be better... but we'll never get that. AND, if we did, some knuckle-head would set a forest on fire... so I think flash mirrors and a protocol/training regime might be the answer.

[arajca]

How many comm channels were you using? Was everything on one channel? Were repeaters being used? Were the repeaters linked? (a COWG specific option). Was there a Comm Plan? I think I heard you guys when I was at PAFB.

As we make the transition to NB, the old practice of running an entire incident on one channel will need to go away. Most wings (CO included) will be revising or rewriting thier comm plans. now is the time to identify issues and research solutions so that when input is requested, you can provide valuable information.

Contrary to popular opinion, wing dc's do not necessarily like to make edicts from on high. We like to get input from the field. That does not necessarily mean your sugestions will become policy, but they will be considered.

In the mountains of the west. Comm can be a problem. Mountains played havoc this weekend with the radios. We had ground teams trying to fix the plane into a circle pattern. The radios and comm-shack traffic was overloaded. So this simple device could at least relieve one issue. Get the plane to circle for a while until the comm traffic catches up with the needs of the various ground teams.

[wuzafuzz]

When in doubt, try Guard 1, assuming the practice of aircraft monitoring Guard 1 becomes standard.  If Guard 1 is only being used as a calling channel it shouldn't get overloaded.  Guard 1 doesn't depend on repeaters so it should work fine for ground teams calling an aircraft overhead.

Having said that, and to prevent thread drift, visual signaling should be a backup.  Spare batteries can die, or a radio can be damaged.

I do wonder if colored films on a mirror would do the trick.  If the flash is bright enough it might wash out to white.  If it's not bright enough it might not be seen at all.  Perhaps combining a clear mirror signal with colored panels? 

In the end though, with a good comm plan and new habits they should be able to talk.

[Eclipse]

By Guard 1 are you talking about the AEF?

CAP radios aren't going to be setup or legal to xmit on 121.5.

[arajca]

The NB channel plan includes a CAP freq. designated Guard 1. It is required to be monitored on all CAP a/c vhf radios. Whether or not it depends on the aircrew.

[wuzafuzz]

By Guard 1 are you talking about the AEF?

CAP radios aren't going to be setup or legal to xmit on 121.5.

Nope, I'm talking about "GUARD 1" in the narrowband channel plan for VHF-FM.  It's programmed in all our portable and mobile radios and is in a special place in the VHF-FM aircraft CAP radios.  That special position in the aircraft radios allows "GUARD 1" to be monitored at the same time as the other selected channel.  Makes an ideal "calling channel" as a result.

I'm told some aircrews have been trained to turn the volume down for the GUARD 1 position on the Technisonic radio.  That will need to change if GUARD 1 is to work.  We used it for our Eval SAREX and it worked great, but that's another thread.   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8300.0;all

I agree the term "guard" means different things to different people.  This will be a training need within CAP.

[Smithsonia]

CapTalkers;
Apparently this was lost in translation. We had 6 Ground Teams. Some CAP. Some County SAR/CERTS. CAP needs to work with County/State SAR. So we exercised exactly this in Albany County Wyoming. Lots of radios. The Comm shack had incoming calls on multiple frequencies and could pass traffic only so fast. That... and some teams were over the hill and out of range... but they could hit only our high bird. So as the planes got close... everybody starts talking. The comm shack gets traffic overload and so does the high bird. In fact I was chased off the frequency more than once and I was with the Ground Branch Director.

The object of the flash mirror exercise is to freeze the plane in a circle over a working team until the radio traffic, carrying orders from the Ground Branch Dir, IC, Comm shack - catches up. In the 2-3 minutes it takes for the comm traffic to flow... the plane is out of position by a couple of miles. AND when it circles back everybody starts talking and the problem repeats itself. Wild Land Fire has the same issue with tankers. They solve the problem with colored smoke. We can't. Hence the flash mirror idea. Either colored flash mirror. OR multiple/mega/everybody flash the plane at once. I am working this out and asking the questions.

I think we have a problem. I think I have a solution. Now please discuss.

[wuzafuzz]

Ahh, the OP didn't mention non-CAP ground teams, just multiple teams.  It's a different animal now.

[Airrace]

I like the idea of different colored mirrors.

[Gunner C]

I do wonder if colored films on a mirror would do the trick.  If the flash is bright enough it might wash out to white.  If it's not bright enough it might not be seen at all.  Perhaps combining a clear mirror signal with colored panels? 

I don't think it will work.  A film would either, as you said, wash out or reduce the reflectance to an unuseable level.

Better to get the aircraft's attention with a signal mirror, then use some sort of ground signal - panels, smoke, etc.

[ol'fido]

An easier solution would seem to be having a controlled net using your high bird. For instance...

HB: This is High Bird. Stand by for roll call with position marking and traffic. GT1, this is HB give me your approximate position for spotting and flash your signal.

GT1: We are on the north side of Breaker ridge near the fire road. Commencing flash.

HB: Roger, GT1. We have your flash and your position marked. Do you have any traffic over?

GT1: No traffic, over.

HB: Roger GT1, no traffic, over. GT2, give me your approximate location for spotting and flash your signal....

There  would be some kinks to work out but the problem here seems to be radio discipline not off the wall ground to air signals. Or is ther more to this than you have described?

[Smithsonia]

Olefido/Gunner C;
I figure there is a correct opacity that will work. It may cut down some on the brilliance... but given that flashes have been seen as far as 80 miles... cutting it by half is not a problem.

A thin film should do as we are doubling the color. One color pickup as the sunlight goes into the reflective silver, and an additional pickup as the light exits the silver.

In this little test I am attempting to unload the responsibility of the communications to relay via a quick visual queue. Set a circle and allow the comm traffic time enough to clear out. It is a one simple and single thing. "Circle the flash and await further instructions by radio."

I think there are additional items which can be easily added like acknowledgment by rocking the wings. The reason for the colors so that the flash of one group can be distinguished from another. So when the plane circles it can report, "circling red flash."

In the SAREX - We had flashes and the plane set a circle that (1) passed directly over the target... there is no glass bottom in most of our aircraft, so that wasn't going to work. (2) The plane lost position as it maneuvered to safely navigate the higher terrain. (3) the plane circled once, the ground team got out their mirrors, by the time aircraft was at the eastern end of its circle. BUT, the sun was in the west and the angle wasn't right to bounce it to the plane. After the one circle the plane moved south leaving the ground team in the rear view and at their 6 O'clock - which was frustrating too.

Being that the ICP was about 5 miles away the actual signaling ground team and the ICs-Comm were uncoordinated and it took numerous passes to lock them up.

I've colored a few of mirrors with different tints of dry erase. Tomorrow I'll see if I can detect color at a mile. I've got orange, red, green, yellow, and blue and red/yellow/orange on one surface. I don't know what I'll see. The fact is -- none of us do and we are speculating on the results.

[Smithsonia]

I experimented this morning with the flash mirror idea above.

SO far I can't tell the difference between a 25 cent DVD and a $10 survival mirror at distance. DVDs (at least blank ones) are cheaper than survival mirrors. Plus DVDs come with a nifty hole in the center for sighting.

The morning sun seems to make everything yellowish. I'll try again in a few hours.

[Wallygator]

I have a signal mirror that I bought from REI. One side is silver the other side is red. It is made from plastic and comes with a soft carrying sleeve. I have flashed CAP aircraft many times with it on the silver and red sides. All of the pilots reported seeing the red flash MUCH better than the silver flash. It seems that most things that can or do make a flash, don't get much attention, but a red flash is not normal, so it really makes you question, what did I just see?
I think the red mirror is better. 

[Smithsonia]

Wallygator;
It's good to know someone who's tried the red flash signal mirror.

I've seen these red flash mirrors advertised but never in use. I'll pick one up and give it a try. It seems like a good idea and slick little product.

I tried my flash mirror with red dry erase smeared on the regular mirror. There was a red tinge... but I wouldn't say it was Red Enough for someone to distinguish it from silver/white flash.

Thanks!

[RiverAux]

How about have Ground Team 1 have 1 person making flashes, Ground Team 2 have 2 people making flashes, etc? 

[Smithsonia]

RiverAux;
I thought of that and tested it yesterday. So far the control of the Flash is tough at 1/2 mile or more.

As in, were there 2 flashes from 1 mirror. Or 2 mirrors flashing once each. We think Separating the mirror by something like 25-50 ft might clear that up. In the test yesterday I flashed 2 mirrors is unison to give the flash more bang. That works... but since there's nothing to compare it to - how would you know its is 2 mirrors or just one really good flash from 1 mirror. It's a little more interesting set of problems than I orginally predicted. But, I won't have time until this weekend to play with it.

[RiverAux]

I guess I'm not understanding why the ground teams need to get the airplane circling right over them to make radio contact.  Have a high bird flying high enough to have comm contact with everybody if low terrain is an issue and if one team needs to have a plane come down low to spot something, have GT transmit coordinates to the plane and then guide them in with the mirror as needed.   If the plane can see their mirror flash, they should have radio contact if they're anywhere near.  If they're so far out that even line of sight radio contact isn't feasible, then someone should give the plane better coordinates to work off of so that they can get closer before trying to make contact.

[Smithsonia]

RiverAux;
It is not a radio solution. What we saw this weekend happens a lot.

SO - It is one thing and it is described above. Integrated exercise, multiple radios, various deciplines, various freqs, traffic passing in both the comm shack and high bird... clogs happen in the comm shack or on freq. Every system has a failure point. We are trying to stabilize things at the point of failure so the parts quit moving until the comm traffic catches up. No reason to think it beyond that.

The Military puffs smoke. We're trying to come up with a CAP solution.Figuring that smoke isn't going to be issued to cadets or GTs.

We're doing some more experimenting this weekend. More soon. 

[Rotorhead]

I have a signal mirror that I bought from REI. One side is silver the other side is red. It is made from plastic and comes with a soft carrying sleeve. I have flashed CAP aircraft many times with it on the silver and red sides. All of the pilots reported seeing the red flash MUCH better than the silver flash. It seems that most things that can or do make a flash, don't get much attention, but a red flash is not normal, so it really makes you question, what did I just see?
I think the red mirror is better. 

True, but the last time I was on a ground team with someone who used a signal mirror to signal a CAP plane, she lit up the whole aircraft and the crew said it was as if there was a spotlight hitting them. No confusing it with a stray reflection.

Maybe the quality of the mirror and skill of the operator matters more than we think.

[Smithsonia]

An additional item that was slowing the comm traffic was/is:
In an mixed group of County SAR and CAP Ground Teams you will find some on Lat/Lons and some on UTM references. It is usually the IC shack/Comm Shacks responsibility to sort this out.

The plane isn't equipped to do the sorting and in the turbulence of the mountains will find it extremely difficult. So in the specific case of the SAREX I was on... one of the comm guys did it. It took time away from his comm duties. At this moment comm traffic stacked up. Once again an easy solution is the flash mirror and report in "CAPFlight 49Echo... Circling Ground Team 3 awaiting instructions."

[Smithsonia]

I have now done 2 low light experiments. One in the early morning less than an hour after sunrise and today's on a cloudy day. The target was stationary as was the photographer. We were on a mountain hillside and 1500 ft apart.

I brought several signaling devices and recorded the following results ranking these results in visibility top to bottom. (first to last place)

1. Shiny Aluminum pie plates (4 for $2.49 at the Grocery store)
2. Back of a license plate (not shiny taken from a car I traded in a few years ago)
3. Official Air Force Rescue Mirror (brand new from Army Navy Store. $11.29)
4. Shiny aluminum mirror. (standard camping supply - $2.49)
5. CDs/DVDs... that said if you were stuck in a car with 50 CDs on board... you could weaponize
   your signaling device and shoot the plane down with a light beam. SIZE MATTERS IN LOW LIGHT.

In the conditions I was in I could not really detect the red and we colored each item red dry erase marker for a second test. So in low light - red was a waste of time.

As a result - I am putting the cheap shiny aluminum (like heavy tin foil) pie plates in my 24 hour kit.

In low light size matters and 4 of these will make a difference. The weight is negligible. In low light, and provided that you are in a team -- Everybody should signal with everything they've got in order to be seen. Punch a hole in the center and I think you'll get the best low light results.
Once again, in low light, size matters. 4 PIE PLATES WORKS BEST.

Also regarding color of clothing. My team member was in a standard Orange Safety Vest with yellow striping and reflective tapes. He was standing next to a smaller woman in a bright white sweat-shirt. She was taking pictures with a flash camera. She was much much more visible than he was.

The flashes from her camera were clearly visible a 1500 ft. His flashes from the various reflectors were visible only occasionally. So put a cheap flash camera in your kit too. Next I'll do full light test.

[RiverAux]

strobe light.

[Smithsonia]

RiverAux;
I don't have a strobe light but I can see it's use on a cloudy day. The flash camera is in many peoples kit. It is directable... as in take a picture of the nice red/white/and blue plane... no take as many pictures as you can as fast as you can. it worked better than anything else. We tried rescue lasers too. In daylight, nothing. Not even a faint glow. That said, it could be that the thing put my eye out and I didn't know.

[RiverAux]

Many people carry them in their kits anyway for use at night.  If they're seeing a camera flash during daylight, they should be able to see a strobe light flash even better (never tested it though).  I think there are also colored strobe lights available to address your other issues, but have not tested them for how well the colors might show during the day or night. 

[Smithsonia]

RiverAux;
I looked at strobes but for another purpose. There are dozens of variations in size, color, battery configuration, and weight. I got lost before I bought. I didn't use it for this other purpose but did shop it.

I am looking for a KISS solution in this case. We have a SAREX next week. I am going to form a line with each team member exactly the same distance apart, (5 or 10ft apart in one line shinning 4 plates) each with a flash (pie pan) this uniformity in size of the reflection and distance in spacing does not occur in Nature. This may be a solution. We won't know until we try... but we are going to try.

Also we are going to have the whole team stand close together with their various flash mirrors that they have in their kit... then flash like fools... and see how that does. I'll update this thread in 8 days with the results. ED O

[SJFedor]

I experimented this morning with the flash mirror idea above.

SO far I can't tell the difference between a 25 cent DVD and a $10 survival mirror at distance. DVDs (at least blank ones) are cheaper than survival mirrors. Plus DVDs come with a nifty hole in the center for sighting.

The morning sun seems to make everything yellowish. I'll try again in a few hours.

But, as a mission pilot and GTL, I can tell you right now that I can definitely tell the difference between a DVD/CD and a survival mirror from 1000' AGL. Mirror gets a lot more attention.

Honestly, you've got multiple options. Your easiest one is to clear off the main communications channel and go to another channel to do your on-scene coordination with the aircraft, instead of trying to relay from point to point to point through mission comms. There's no reason the GT can't, or shouldn't be, talking direct to the aircraft when they're linked up or trying to link up. We do the same thing on the ambulance. We have the dispatch channel where most of the pertinant talking happens relating to the call. If we have extra traffic or need to coordinate w/ another truck, fire, PD, or the shift supervisor, instead of tying up the main channel, that has anywhere from 10-16 trucks on it, we pop over to another one.

You're thinking KISS? Use multiple channels, that's the simplest way. And if you have non-CAP teams out there as well, there's other frequencies that can be used. Get your non-CAP teams equipped with a simple airband radio, and they can talk on 122.9, 123.1, or 123.45.

[Smithsonia]

SJFedor;

I did a field test today. We used a good survival mirror and a CD/DVD and I reported the result above. Did you miss that?

I ranked today's results in order. You may read everything that I have written. AS a Pilot (although not a CAP pilot but an Observer) and Ground Team member myself I am conducting this experiment in a methodical manner.

Some days because of atmospherics the results change. I have included the changes and reported the differences.

Thanks for the COMM suggestion. Once again this is NOT A COMM fix. It is a COMM smoother (as in momentary work around). I've been on 8 missions or SAREXs in the last 4 months. Six with Ground teams involved. All had different comm teams and plans, ICs, planning groups, ops, pilots/crews and various SAR teams were involved. All teams were good or at least were doing relatively well. Many of the teams were absolutely superior.

At some point we have to have a solution for the IC... a protocol while we wait for Comm to clear.

Comm in the field will always always go to its failure point. It can be because of comm shack clogs up, too much traffic on freq, lost comm (which then gets repeated calls trying to find that team, while everyone else stands by), everybody calling for their half-hour report-ins at the same time, OR, as teams join up in an ever expanding mission... a new comm plan is impossible to brief with teams already in the field.

So if you don't like what I suggest -- ignore it. OR use it if you need it. OR, keep repeating to yourself, "it doesn't happen". I can't do any more than offer solutions. I'm working on the problem
but I am not the problem. I have to give the IC a solution. You may always do as you see fit.

[SJFedor]

I hear what you're saying Ed, and I'm not criticizing your work. However, you're saying you're trying to find a "Comm smoother (as in momentary work around)" while comm clears.

Instead of working around the problem, why don't you work to fix the actual problem? If comm is a bottleneck, work to fix the bottleneck, not circumvent it.

Signal mirrors have their place in what we do, but I wouldn't heavily rely on it. You, as a GTM, should know that it's hard, if not impossible, to use them in more heavily wooded areas (which I would imagine a good chunk of Colorado is).

All that we're saying is that you may find it easier to not try and reinvent the wheel on this one. Signal mirrors are good as a backup, along with other signaling devices (panels, et al) but don't focus on that too much.

For example, you're having some issues, especially with terrain and comm getting clogged. Here's some things you can do:

1) Separate air and ground traffic on different frequencies. Put your birds on channel 1, ground assets on 2. If you need it, put up a high bird to support each channel. Personally, airmobile repeaters are a lot more practical in high tempo operations. Put your channel operators (MROs at base) next to each other. If you have to put a GT and a bird together, you've got 2 more channels to use, have them both go to that channel to work out what they have to do.

2) Brief loss comms procedures from the easier to remember and execute on down. Don't start with signal mirrors and panels if you've got some other options. Airband radios, talking to the GT through their DF, and simply checking your own equipment are all good choices. However, you're right, training w/ the hard stuff is always a good idea sometimes as well. Don't dwell on it too much though.

3) Brief your comm plans with expanding capability. Don't draft your comm plan with just 2 aircraft and a GT in mind if you think there's even a remote possibility of it expanding. Remember the 6 "P's"

There's plenty of other options here. It all really depends on what you're trying to do. Again, i'm not trying to hate on you here, but there's a lot of people with a lot more field experience here who can give you lots of different options besides what you're coming up with.

[RiverAux]

SJ, I think you may be with me in trying to understand how visual identification of ground teams by an airplane can solve a comm problem.  It sounds like this is a quite complicated operation and I commend them getting involved in something like that and it seems like I'm just not understanding this particular approach to the problem. 

[SJFedor]

SJ, I think you may be with me in trying to understand how visual identification of ground teams by an airplane can solve a comm problem.  It sounds like this is a quite complicated operation and I commend them getting involved in something like that and it seems like I'm just not understanding this particular approach to the problem.

Absolutely. I love doing "lost comms" sorties because they're challenging, and usually a lot of fun, when a GT and an airplane get to play together w/o using the radios. But again Ed, it seems like you're making this a lot more drawn out and complex than it really needs to be.

[Short Field]

From the Equpped to Survive website: http://www.equipped.org/
==============================================
NOTE: We are often asked about, or see the recommendation online and elsewhere, the use of a CD-ROM as signal mirror. It is shinny, reflects light, has a hole in the center, and thus looks somewhat like a signal mirror. Moreover, many of us have lots of useless CDs around, AOL continues to send many of more of them, thus its appeal.

In tests a CD proved to be only about 20%-25% as effective (distance and brightness at distance, judged subjectively) as a 3 x 5 mil-spec plastic signal mirror, a bit more effective, but not even 50% compared to a small 2 x 3 mil-spec plastic signal mirror. It would compare worse against higher quality mirrors.

From an operational persepctive, in an After-Action Report of a major SAREX (Search and Rescue Training Exercise) conducted in 2001 by the Colorado Wing of the Civil Air Patrol, the conclusions were, "that "victims" who had never used a signal mirror (with the aiming hole in the middle) were able to use them effectively, while CD's (AOL etc.) are useless as signal mirrors."

It also has the disadvantage of requiring two hands to aim it as compared to a signal mirror with an integrated aiming device, the hole is not an aiming device. The mil-spec plastic mirrors also float, the CD may or may not, and certainly not as well. Given that a good signal mirror is not very expensive and is the most effective daytime (sunlight) signaling device, using a CD hardly seems worth the savings.

Not to say you couldn't be rescued using a CD. People have been rescued using the hologram on a credit card to signal with and the CD is far superior to that small reflective surface. A CD makes a decent improvised signal mirror compared to many other options and since they are essentially free, it may be worth carrying some for other members of your crew or party to use, multiplying your signaling capability. However, we cannot recommend a CD as a primary survival signaling device.

[Smithsonia]

It is easy and cheap to experiment. BUT, it needs to be done in a methodical manner, one piece at a time. Then glued together and tested in its compositional form. I am giving test results here.

You're conclusions and ideas are appreciated: Some one who wants to test panels? Go test panels. Put the results here too. I am working out one thing at a time right now. I'll work on more and add it to the pile as soon as I can. Today I picked up some valuable information about seeing white and a flash camera on a cloudy day v seeing blaze orange and a reflector. It wasn't part of the experiment but it is part of the results. Use if you like. Disregard if you don't.

I am not suggesting I have all the answers. I am suggesting that the results give me more information than speculation does. I am for fixing problems that I encounter, through experimentation and knowledge. I am also for testing what I/we believe to be true but which in fact may not be true. Anyone tried that WW2 shark repellent lately? It actually attracts sharks. The Navy owned that stuff for 40 years before Drs. Bill Hansey and Rusty Moore proved them wrong.

In the same vein here's some hikers last week rescued in Colorado by using flash mirrors.
http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_13044496

Anyway, validated opinions are worth something. Complaints aren't. I am not asking for your time or treasure. I'm not asking for CAPs either. We'll do more tests next week. Stay tuned if you like.

[SJFedor]

My apologies, I didn't realize this was your personal experiment blog.

And by the way, most of the people on here are not complaining, they are giving validated opinions. And considering that most people in here have been mission rated longer than you've been in, we might have something to share on the topic.

[heliodoc]

Nothing wrong with a new idea from someone not in CAP for more than "X" yrs

Nothing wrong with mission rated folks chiming in 

NOTHING wrong with folks who want to share

Nothing detected as a personal experiment blog

[SJFedor]

Nothing detected as a personal experiment blog

Well...

Anyway, validated opinions are worth something. Complaints aren't. I am not asking for your time or treasure. I'm not asking for CAPs either. We'll do more tests next week. Stay tuned if you like.

I take that as a nice way of him telling me to shut up and color. And yes, nothing wrong with new ideas, but, in true CAPTalk form, it's a solution looking for a problem.

[Smithsonia]

SJFedor;
If you are not experiencing the problem, and you've said so in the previous postings to this one, then you have no information to give. You have opinion about the problem. Got it. Thanks.

By the way - I am not heavily interested in my opinion either - I'm stating a premise upon which I intend to conduct experiments. Those experiments are under way.

I am interested in the problem. I am interested in the solution. In between those two; I am interested in the experiment.