Flash Mirror idea

[Smithsonia]

WE came across a problem this weekend when we had multiple ground teams closing on a target and a plane above. With people flashing the aircraft.

Flash Mirror needs 2 things.
1) A training protocol - as in, when you see the flash you rock your wings -5,6,7 times.

2) different colored mirrors. So the plane can tell one ground team from another. In this I think we can use a bit of colored film (not too opaque to keep the mirror from flashing but not too light so that the color is undetectable) We are going to experiment.

In the mountains of the west. Comm can be a problem. Mountains played havoc this weekend with the radios. We had ground teams trying to fix the plane into a circle pattern. The radios and comm-shack traffic was overloaded. So this simple device could at least relieve one issue. Get the plane to circle for a while until the comm traffic catches up with the needs of the various ground teams.

Let me know what you think.

If you can, experiment yourself. We figure we can do a series of tests on the ground driving around in cars on the open prairie and resolve most of the issues. Green, Red, Yellow smoke would be better... but we'll never get that. AND, if we did, some knuckle-head would set a forest on fire... so I think flash mirrors and a protocol/training regime might be the answer.

[arajca]

How many comm channels were you using? Was everything on one channel? Were repeaters being used? Were the repeaters linked? (a COWG specific option). Was there a Comm Plan? I think I heard you guys when I was at PAFB.

As we make the transition to NB, the old practice of running an entire incident on one channel will need to go away. Most wings (CO included) will be revising or rewriting thier comm plans. now is the time to identify issues and research solutions so that when input is requested, you can provide valuable information.

Contrary to popular opinion, wing dc's do not necessarily like to make edicts from on high. We like to get input from the field. That does not necessarily mean your sugestions will become policy, but they will be considered.

In the mountains of the west. Comm can be a problem. Mountains played havoc this weekend with the radios. We had ground teams trying to fix the plane into a circle pattern. The radios and comm-shack traffic was overloaded. So this simple device could at least relieve one issue. Get the plane to circle for a while until the comm traffic catches up with the needs of the various ground teams.

[wuzafuzz]

When in doubt, try Guard 1, assuming the practice of aircraft monitoring Guard 1 becomes standard.  If Guard 1 is only being used as a calling channel it shouldn't get overloaded.  Guard 1 doesn't depend on repeaters so it should work fine for ground teams calling an aircraft overhead.

Having said that, and to prevent thread drift, visual signaling should be a backup.  Spare batteries can die, or a radio can be damaged.

I do wonder if colored films on a mirror would do the trick.  If the flash is bright enough it might wash out to white.  If it's not bright enough it might not be seen at all.  Perhaps combining a clear mirror signal with colored panels? 

In the end though, with a good comm plan and new habits they should be able to talk.

[Eclipse]

By Guard 1 are you talking about the AEF?

CAP radios aren't going to be setup or legal to xmit on 121.5.

[arajca]

The NB channel plan includes a CAP freq. designated Guard 1. It is required to be monitored on all CAP a/c vhf radios. Whether or not it depends on the aircrew.

[wuzafuzz]

By Guard 1 are you talking about the AEF?

CAP radios aren't going to be setup or legal to xmit on 121.5.

Nope, I'm talking about "GUARD 1" in the narrowband channel plan for VHF-FM.  It's programmed in all our portable and mobile radios and is in a special place in the VHF-FM aircraft CAP radios.  That special position in the aircraft radios allows "GUARD 1" to be monitored at the same time as the other selected channel.  Makes an ideal "calling channel" as a result.

I'm told some aircrews have been trained to turn the volume down for the GUARD 1 position on the Technisonic radio.  That will need to change if GUARD 1 is to work.  We used it for our Eval SAREX and it worked great, but that's another thread.   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8300.0;all

I agree the term "guard" means different things to different people.  This will be a training need within CAP.

[Smithsonia]

CapTalkers;
Apparently this was lost in translation. We had 6 Ground Teams. Some CAP. Some County SAR/CERTS. CAP needs to work with County/State SAR. So we exercised exactly this in Albany County Wyoming. Lots of radios. The Comm shack had incoming calls on multiple frequencies and could pass traffic only so fast. That... and some teams were over the hill and out of range... but they could hit only our high bird. So as the planes got close... everybody starts talking. The comm shack gets traffic overload and so does the high bird. In fact I was chased off the frequency more than once and I was with the Ground Branch Director.

The object of the flash mirror exercise is to freeze the plane in a circle over a working team until the radio traffic, carrying orders from the Ground Branch Dir, IC, Comm shack - catches up. In the 2-3 minutes it takes for the comm traffic to flow... the plane is out of position by a couple of miles. AND when it circles back everybody starts talking and the problem repeats itself. Wild Land Fire has the same issue with tankers. They solve the problem with colored smoke. We can't. Hence the flash mirror idea. Either colored flash mirror. OR multiple/mega/everybody flash the plane at once. I am working this out and asking the questions.

I think we have a problem. I think I have a solution. Now please discuss.

[wuzafuzz]

Ahh, the OP didn't mention non-CAP ground teams, just multiple teams.  It's a different animal now.

[Airrace]

I like the idea of different colored mirrors.

[Gunner C]

I do wonder if colored films on a mirror would do the trick.  If the flash is bright enough it might wash out to white.  If it's not bright enough it might not be seen at all.  Perhaps combining a clear mirror signal with colored panels? 

I don't think it will work.  A film would either, as you said, wash out or reduce the reflectance to an unuseable level.

Better to get the aircraft's attention with a signal mirror, then use some sort of ground signal - panels, smoke, etc.

[ol'fido]

An easier solution would seem to be having a controlled net using your high bird. For instance...

HB: This is High Bird. Stand by for roll call with position marking and traffic. GT1, this is HB give me your approximate position for spotting and flash your signal.

GT1: We are on the north side of Breaker ridge near the fire road. Commencing flash.

HB: Roger, GT1. We have your flash and your position marked. Do you have any traffic over?

GT1: No traffic, over.

HB: Roger GT1, no traffic, over. GT2, give me your approximate location for spotting and flash your signal....

There  would be some kinks to work out but the problem here seems to be radio discipline not off the wall ground to air signals. Or is ther more to this than you have described?

[Smithsonia]

Olefido/Gunner C;
I figure there is a correct opacity that will work. It may cut down some on the brilliance... but given that flashes have been seen as far as 80 miles... cutting it by half is not a problem.

A thin film should do as we are doubling the color. One color pickup as the sunlight goes into the reflective silver, and an additional pickup as the light exits the silver.

In this little test I am attempting to unload the responsibility of the communications to relay via a quick visual queue. Set a circle and allow the comm traffic time enough to clear out. It is a one simple and single thing. "Circle the flash and await further instructions by radio."

I think there are additional items which can be easily added like acknowledgment by rocking the wings. The reason for the colors so that the flash of one group can be distinguished from another. So when the plane circles it can report, "circling red flash."

In the SAREX - We had flashes and the plane set a circle that (1) passed directly over the target... there is no glass bottom in most of our aircraft, so that wasn't going to work. (2) The plane lost position as it maneuvered to safely navigate the higher terrain. (3) the plane circled once, the ground team got out their mirrors, by the time aircraft was at the eastern end of its circle. BUT, the sun was in the west and the angle wasn't right to bounce it to the plane. After the one circle the plane moved south leaving the ground team in the rear view and at their 6 O'clock - which was frustrating too.

Being that the ICP was about 5 miles away the actual signaling ground team and the ICs-Comm were uncoordinated and it took numerous passes to lock them up.

I've colored a few of mirrors with different tints of dry erase. Tomorrow I'll see if I can detect color at a mile. I've got orange, red, green, yellow, and blue and red/yellow/orange on one surface. I don't know what I'll see. The fact is -- none of us do and we are speculating on the results.

[Smithsonia]

I experimented this morning with the flash mirror idea above.

SO far I can't tell the difference between a 25 cent DVD and a $10 survival mirror at distance. DVDs (at least blank ones) are cheaper than survival mirrors. Plus DVDs come with a nifty hole in the center for sighting.

The morning sun seems to make everything yellowish. I'll try again in a few hours.

[Wallygator]

I have a signal mirror that I bought from REI. One side is silver the other side is red. It is made from plastic and comes with a soft carrying sleeve. I have flashed CAP aircraft many times with it on the silver and red sides. All of the pilots reported seeing the red flash MUCH better than the silver flash. It seems that most things that can or do make a flash, don't get much attention, but a red flash is not normal, so it really makes you question, what did I just see?
I think the red mirror is better. 

[Smithsonia]

Wallygator;
It's good to know someone who's tried the red flash signal mirror.

I've seen these red flash mirrors advertised but never in use. I'll pick one up and give it a try. It seems like a good idea and slick little product.

I tried my flash mirror with red dry erase smeared on the regular mirror. There was a red tinge... but I wouldn't say it was Red Enough for someone to distinguish it from silver/white flash.

Thanks!

[RiverAux]

How about have Ground Team 1 have 1 person making flashes, Ground Team 2 have 2 people making flashes, etc? 

[Smithsonia]

RiverAux;
I thought of that and tested it yesterday. So far the control of the Flash is tough at 1/2 mile or more.

As in, were there 2 flashes from 1 mirror. Or 2 mirrors flashing once each. We think Separating the mirror by something like 25-50 ft might clear that up. In the test yesterday I flashed 2 mirrors is unison to give the flash more bang. That works... but since there's nothing to compare it to - how would you know its is 2 mirrors or just one really good flash from 1 mirror. It's a little more interesting set of problems than I orginally predicted. But, I won't have time until this weekend to play with it.

[RiverAux]

I guess I'm not understanding why the ground teams need to get the airplane circling right over them to make radio contact.  Have a high bird flying high enough to have comm contact with everybody if low terrain is an issue and if one team needs to have a plane come down low to spot something, have GT transmit coordinates to the plane and then guide them in with the mirror as needed.   If the plane can see their mirror flash, they should have radio contact if they're anywhere near.  If they're so far out that even line of sight radio contact isn't feasible, then someone should give the plane better coordinates to work off of so that they can get closer before trying to make contact.

[Smithsonia]

RiverAux;
It is not a radio solution. What we saw this weekend happens a lot.

SO - It is one thing and it is described above. Integrated exercise, multiple radios, various deciplines, various freqs, traffic passing in both the comm shack and high bird... clogs happen in the comm shack or on freq. Every system has a failure point. We are trying to stabilize things at the point of failure so the parts quit moving until the comm traffic catches up. No reason to think it beyond that.

The Military puffs smoke. We're trying to come up with a CAP solution.Figuring that smoke isn't going to be issued to cadets or GTs.

We're doing some more experimenting this weekend. More soon. 

[Rotorhead]

I have a signal mirror that I bought from REI. One side is silver the other side is red. It is made from plastic and comes with a soft carrying sleeve. I have flashed CAP aircraft many times with it on the silver and red sides. All of the pilots reported seeing the red flash MUCH better than the silver flash. It seems that most things that can or do make a flash, don't get much attention, but a red flash is not normal, so it really makes you question, what did I just see?
I think the red mirror is better. 

True, but the last time I was on a ground team with someone who used a signal mirror to signal a CAP plane, she lit up the whole aircraft and the crew said it was as if there was a spotlight hitting them. No confusing it with a stray reflection.

Maybe the quality of the mirror and skill of the operator matters more than we think.