Practice ELT

[SDF_Specialist]

I've heard so many different things about getting a pointer cadet practice ELT. I've heard that they can be issued by the Wing DC, I've heard that they can be issued by the Wing ESO. I've also heard that they can be purchased. Is there anywhere to get these? I've checked out the Pointer site, and they are out of stock. I've googled "practice ELT", but came up with nothing. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[SarDragon]

Try practice beacon, its correct name.

[IceNine]

Give pointer a call,  They are about the only place I know of that carries them.  And they are REALLY new to this crazy idea of web stores.  I have one of their products that is over 15 years old, its been abused and its still a ticking.


When you call them make sure to tell the you are using this with CAP.  They have several different versions but there is one that will even have Civil Air Patrol stamped on the model sticker.

[JC004]

http://www.skygeek.com/trainer-6000.html

You will need it to be on 121.775

[SDF_Specialist]

Now as CAP, are we still gonna train using the training frequency, or will the FAA/FCC issue us a new one since 121.5 is being phased out? I don't want to get something, and have it be useless to my unit.

[sardak]

121.5 MHz is NOT being phased out.  406 MHz beacons in the US, whether ELT, EPIRB or PLB are required by law to transmit a homing signal on 121.5 MHz.  And there are still several hundred thousand legal and illegal 121.5 MHz beacons out there.

So yes, you need a practice beacon that transmits on 121.775 MHz.  The old training frequency was 121.6 and there are still practice beacons on that frequency.  Check the freq if you find a "good deal."

Mike

[_]

Seimac produces a practice beacon. 

http://www.seimac.com/
Go to the site.
Click on "Search & Rescue" along the top.
Click on "Training Beacons" on the left.

[Eclipse]

And you should also check with your Group or Wing ESO / DC, both may have a spare.

If you have an L-Per, there should have been a practice beacon to go with it - in most cases they were issued as a set, and over the years they got separated.

You may find that there is one sitting in someone's basement they should have returned.

[SDF_Specialist]

And you should also check with your Group or Wing ESO / DC, both may have a spare.

If you have an L-Per, there should have been a practice beacon to go with it - in most cases they were issued as a set, and over the years they got separated.

You may find that there is one sitting in someone's basement they should have returned.

There are three ELTs within my Wing. They've all been issued out. I went to the link above, and found what I was looking for. It's all a matter of if my unit will purchase it.

[Eclipse]

And you should also check with your Group or Wing ESO / DC, both may have a spare.

If you have an L-Per, there should have been a practice beacon to go with it - in most cases they were issued as a set, and over the years they got separated.

You may find that there is one sitting in someone's basement they should have returned.

There are three ELTs within my Wing. They've all been issued out. I went to the link above, and found what I was looking for. It's all a matter of if my unit will purchase it.

I find that difficult to believe unless you're from Rhode Island or something.  There are 4-5 in my group alone.  To have three in the entire state does not sound right.

[RiverAux]

I'm not sure what the standard is, but my wing has very few practice beacons. 

[SDF_Specialist]

And you should also check with your Group or Wing ESO / DC, both may have a spare.

If you have an L-Per, there should have been a practice beacon to go with it - in most cases they were issued as a set, and over the years they got separated.

You may find that there is one sitting in someone's basement they should have returned.

There are three ELTs within my Wing. They've all been issued out. I went to the link above, and found what I was looking for. It's all a matter of if my unit will purchase it.

I find that difficult to believe unless you're from Rhode Island or something.  There are 4-5 in my group alone.  To have three in the entire state does not sound right.

It may not sound right, but it is, and it's ashame. From what I understand though, there is an effort being made to obtain more to distribute throughout the state rather than just one location. There are other practice beacons in the Wing, but those are member owned. It's hard to convince a member to let a unit use it.

[Eclipse]

If its legal, I believe it has to be licensed, and if its licensed, part of those terms are that they can be used by anyone by request of the corporation, just like personally owned radios.

[SDF_Specialist]

If its legal, I believe it has to be licensed, and if its licensed, part of those terms are that they can be used by anyone by request of the corporation, just like personally owned radios.

I'm not sure how that works. Licensed by CAP? I've never issued a license for one personally, but that's just me. I'm thinking I'm gonna contact the Wing DC again. Who knows what may happen?

[SJFedor]

I'd recommend it. Wings should have far more then 3. My group alone has 4-6 that I can think of off the top of my head, plus about another 4-5 member owned ones that are around.

And please, engrain the phrase practice beacon into yours, and everyone that you encounter's, vocabulary. You call it an ELT, or even a practice ELT, and people get very excitable, very quick. Practice beacon is the proper term.

It's like people that abbreviate Second Lieutenant as 2LT or variations thereof in their signature line. It's like nails on a chalkboard to many.

[SDF_Specialist]

Understood. I think the main reason for having so few is an under-funded Communications department within the Wing. This is something that the newest DC has been trying to handle, and it's not been an easy ride for him, or the rest of the Comm Staff.

BEACON BEACON BEACON. If I say it three times, it'll be easier to remember. But thanks for the suggestion.

[SJFedor]

Have him look in CEMS to see how many you're actually supposed to have. I believe our practice beacons are tracked in there.

[SDF_Specialist]

Have him look in CEMS to see how many you're actually supposed to have. I believe our practice beacons are tracked in there.

Oh, he did. Once he got into the spot of Wing DC, that's the first thing he did was do a CEMS inventory of what assets were assigned to the Wing. Needless to say, he wasn't happy with the numbers, nor should he have been.

[RiverAux]

Practice beacons fall into the category of equipment that in some Wings it seems they leave it up to the squadrons to buy them if they want them and in others the Wing buys them and distributes them where needed. 

[SDF_Specialist]

Practice beacons fall into the category of equipment that in some Wings it seems they leave it up to the squadrons to buy them if they want them and in others the Wing buys them and distributes them where needed. 

It's kind of a split policy here. The DC does want to purchase them. I think he said something like 50, which is a good number for my state. The primary problem comes back down to lack of funding for the Communications department. CEMS only lists three CAP owned beacons in the Wing. I'm not sure of how many member owned there are, but I would hope that the number would be decent. Again, I've never seen licensing records for any beacons, nor have I received any applications.

[a2capt]

What exactly is wrong with modifying an existing unit or building one?

A lot of them are based on a 121.5 crystal, and one can get custom crystals cut, 121.775 isn't that hard. Or build a doubler and use a crystal from L-Tronics.

Is it that the unit is automatically going to double and put out a 244.55 signal?

What if this is disabled? After all, if the practice beacon's don't output this, then it's got to be doable.

[Eclipse]

For one thing, it would be an illegal transmitter.

I confirmed today with our DC that "legal" CAP practice beacons must be licensed to be used for training by CAP members.

Building your own is also fraught with the danger that you will actually build what will initially be a Find Ribbon generator, and ultimately be a 2b and possible FCC fine generator, shoudl you bleed into 121.5, or ATIS, or Channel 2, etc.

[SarDragon]

What exactly is wrong with modifying an existing unit or building one?

A lot of them are based on a 121.5 crystal, and one can get custom crystals cut, 121.775 isn't that hard. Or build a doubler and use a crystal from L-Tronics.

Is it that the unit is automatically going to double and put out a 244.55 signal?

What if this is disabled? After all, if the practice beacon's don't output this, then it's got to be doable.

There is guidance somewhere on the 'Net from the folks at NTC explaining exactly why recrystaling a real ELT is prohibited. I'll post a link later if I can find it.

[KyCAP]

Just a note from the AFRCC Search Management Course today...    406 ELTS MUST be encoded from the factory as TEST for use as practice.  Otherwise, they will be processed as distress and subject to a $10,000 FCC fine for knowingly emitting a distress signal.

The SEIMAC EPIRBS NHQ have purchased are evidently encoded this way.

[♠SARKID♠]

What exactly is wrong with modifying an existing unit or building one?

A lot of them are based on a 121.5 crystal, and one can get custom crystals cut, 121.775 isn't that hard. Or build a doubler and use a crystal from L-Tronics.

Is it that the unit is automatically going to double and put out a 244.55 signal?

What if this is disabled? After all, if the practice beacon's don't output this, then it's got to be doable.

I pulled this off of http://www.cap-es.net/ES%20Electric%20Technology/Practice%20Beacon%20Modifications.htm

Not A Modification: Convert an old ELT into a Practice Beacon

Thinking about converting a real ELT into a practice beacon?   Read this--from the Chief of CAP Comm--first!

The answer is "no". You can't convert a real ELT for practice purposes. The reason is because of the fact that ELTs are intentionally "sloppy", transmitting a healthy signal on the first harmonic so you can track on either 121.5 or 243.0. The practice beacons have filter circuitry to eliminate the harmonics so we can use them on 121.775 without stepping into the unauthorized 243.55. So, if someone were to recrystal a real ELT to 121.775 they would be in violation of our frequency assignments because we don't have an assignment on the UHF number.

Now, that having been said, Fred has submitted a request for the Joint Frequency Managers (DoD) to allocate 243.55 as an ELT training frequency but that hasn't happened yet. If they ever get around to doing that, then this gentleman's idea would be legal. Since we now have UHF "Trackers" a UHF training frequency would be helpful.

Thanks for checking. Let us know if there's anything we can do.

Malcolm Kyser
Chief of Communications
Civil Air Patrol
105 S. Hansell St. Callsign: Headcap 4
Maxwell AFB, AL 36112


The question was asked to other industry experts.   They indicated t that most often the bench time would often cost more than a new Pointer brand practice beacon.   Professional conversion would be required to maintain the type acceptance of the radio.  In other words, shell out the $156, which includes shipping.   You may purchase the beacon directly from Pointer.

To clarify further, couldnt modify the beacon because it would tranmit illegally on the  243.55 harmonic of 121.775.

[Skyray]

While we are on this subject, anyone around North Carolina wing seen a Pointer 6000 Practice Beacon with an orange body and a black back?  It is my personal beacon that I loaned to the Wing Director of Emergency Services some years ago for a SarEx where they were short of beacons and mine never came home.  It is that weird bicolor because they came in orange or black, and I had two and swapped the backs so they would be a little unique.  The black one with the orange back came home, but the orange one with a black back was last seen around Burlington.

[SDF_Specialist]

While we are on this subject, anyone around North Carolina wing seen a Pointer 6000 Practice Beacon with an orange body and a black back?  It is my personal beacon that I loaned to the Wing Director of Emergency Services some years ago for a SarEx where they were short of beacons and mine never came home.  It is that weird bicolor because they came in orange or black, and I had two and swapped the backs so they would be a little unique.  The black one with the orange back came home, but the orange one with a black back was last seen around Burlington.

You have a personal practice beacon that was loaned to a Wing ESO, and it made its way to NC? Why not get permission to contact the NCWG ESO? You are missing personal property. Or, maybe have CAP getcha a new one

[SarDragon]

Not A Modification: Convert an old ELT into a Practice Beacon

Thinking about converting a real ELT into a practice beacon?   Read this--from the Chief of CAP Comm--first!

The answer is "no". You can't convert a real ELT for practice purposes. The reason is because of the fact that ELTs are intentionally "sloppy", transmitting a healthy signal on the first harmonic so you can track on either 121.5 or 243.0. The practice beacons have filter circuitry to eliminate the harmonics so we can use them on 121.775 without stepping into the unauthorized 243.55. So, if someone were to recrystal a real ELT to 121.775 they would be in violation of our frequency assignments because we don't have an assignment on the UHF number.

Now, that having been said, Fred has submitted a request for the Joint Frequency Managers (DoD) to allocate 243.55 as an ELT training frequency but that hasn't happened yet. If they ever get around to doing that, then this gentleman's idea would be legal. Since we now have UHF "Trackers" a UHF training frequency would be helpful.

Thanks for checking. Let us know if there's anything we can do.

Malcolm Kyser
Chief of Communications
Civil Air Patrol
105 S. Hansell St. Callsign: Headcap 4
Maxwell AFB, AL 36112


The question was asked to other industry experts.   They indicated t that most often the bench time would often cost more than a new Pointer brand practice beacon.   Professional conversion would be required to maintain the type acceptance of the radio.  In other words, shell out the $156, which includes shipping.   You may purchase the beacon directly from Pointer.

That's the one I was looking for. Got a link for it?

[♠SARKID♠]

http://www.cap-es.net/ES%20Electric%20Technology/Practice%20Beacon%20Modifications.htm

Scroll down almost to the bottom.  Also, be weary about the other mods they have on that page.  I dont believe they are legal either.

[SarDragon]

http://www.cap-es.net/ES%20Electric%20Technology/Practice%20Beacon%20Modifications.htm

Scroll down almost to the bottom.  Also, be weary about the other mods they have on that page.  I dont believe they are legal either.

Weary, or wary? Others will argue the point, but as long as no mods are done that affect the transmitter frequency, I don't think anyone will get too upset. I have worked with a couple of different practice beacons with some of these mods, and they certainly enhance the training environment.

[♠SARKID♠]

http://www.cap-es.net/ES%20Electric%20Technology/Practice%20Beacon%20Modifications.htm

Scroll down almost to the bottom.  Also, be weary about the other mods they have on that page.  I dont believe they are legal either.

Weary, or wary. Others will argue the point, but as long as no mods are done that affect the transmitter frequency, I don't think anyone will get too upset. I have worked with a couple of different practice beacons with some of these mods, and they certainly enhance the training environment.

Weary, wary, whatever.  I'd prefer using outside interference to mess with a signal,  rather than run the risk of illegally modifying, or accidentally breaking something during a de-soldering.  Fences, aluminum foil, hangars, its all good stuff for upping the challenge.

[SarDragon]

A. How many carrier-only practice sessions have you participated in?

B. How many carrier-only missions have you prosecuted?

The more of A that you've done, the easier doing B gets. They are a lot more difficult.

[♠SARKID♠]

Never had the opportunity.

[Matt]

A. How many carrier-only practice sessions have you participated in?

B. How many carrier-only missions have you prosecuted?

The more of A that you've done, the easier doing B gets. They are a lot more difficult.

Oh-so-fun... I miss carrier only practices... and to make it more relentless, combine with a regular practice beacon for more head scratching at far distances... 

[Skyray]

While we are on this subject, anyone around North Carolina wing seen a Pointer 6000 Practice Beacon with an orange body and a black back?  It is my personal beacon that I loaned to the Wing Director of Emergency Services some years ago for a SarEx where they were short of beacons and mine never came home.  It is that weird bicolor because they came in orange or black, and I had two and swapped the backs so they would be a little unique.  The black one with the orange back came home, but the orange one with a black back was last seen around Burlington.

You have a personal practice beacon that was loaned to a Wing ESO, and it made its way to NC? Why not get permission to contact the NCWG ESO? You are missing personal property. Or, maybe have CAP getcha a new one

I was a member of NCWG at the time.  I did contact them, and they claim no recollection of having my practice beacon.  Just since we were on the subject, I thought I would ask, since it is a unique beacon with an orange case and a black back.  I thought someone on the board might remember seeing it at a SarEx or somewhere.

[brasda91]

Seimac produces a practice beacon. 

http://www.seimac.com/
Go to the site.
Click on "Search & Rescue" along the top.
Click on "Training Beacons" on the left.

OK, I've "searched" this site all over and I cannot find the Training Beacons.  Anybody help?

[SDF_Specialist]

OK, I've "searched" this site all over and I cannot find the Training Beacons.  Anybody help?

If you're looking to get one of these, here's a link. http://www.skygeek.com/trainer-6000.html. This place is the cheapest that I've found.