HAM Radios and CAP

[SarDragon]

No...it is not legal to use "HAM" gear on CAP freqs.

Only those on the approved list can be used.

The FCC does not have anything to do with CAP Comm.  NTIA is our rules maker.

"Was" is the operative word in sardak's post, as in "was legal".

[lordmonar]

No...it is not legal to use "HAM" gear on CAP freqs.

Only those on the approved list can be used.

The FCC does not have anything to do with CAP Comm.  NTIA is our rules maker.

"Was" is the operative word in sardak's post, as in "was legal".

Sorry missed that.   

[Holding Pattern]

Rules Lawyer question of the day: Does this mean CAP can't operate on wifi channels 1-6?

[wuzafuzz]

Rules Lawyer question of the day: Does this mean CAP can't operate on wifi channels 1-6?

You're fine if you operate within the rules for license free (or licensed by rule) WiFi operation.  If you crank up the power to use amateur radio license privileges on those same frequencies then someone could potentially write a scathing indictment of your nefarious activities. 

[wuzafuzz]

No...it is not legal to use "HAM" gear on CAP freqs.

Only those on the approved list can be used.

The FCC does not have anything to do with CAP Comm.  NTIA is our rules maker.

Equipment used on CAP frequencies does not have to be on the approved list.  That equipment must meet NTIA standards for the appropriate band. The "approved list" is provided for convenience since few people will understand NTIA standards. 

However, CAP regs say that list must be adhered to if you are buying radios with CAP funds. If anyone becomes aware of a suitable radio that isn't on the list yet, you can submit it for review.  I've done that and got thumbs up in return, so I could spend CAP money on said radios. 

If you are spending your own money, NTIA compliance is the metric. Beware though, you may find yourself at odds with a licensing officer with limited understanding of the rules.

[lordmonar]

No...it is not legal to use "HAM" gear on CAP freqs.

Only those on the approved list can be used.

The FCC does not have anything to do with CAP Comm.  NTIA is our rules maker.

Equipment used on CAP frequencies does not have to be on the approved list.  That equipment must meet NTIA standards for the appropriate band. The "approved list" is provided for convenience since few people will understand NTIA standards. 

However, CAP regs say that list must be adhered to if you are buying radios with CAP funds. If anyone becomes aware of a suitable radio that isn't on the list yet, you can submit it for review.  I've done that and got thumbs up in return, so I could spend CAP money on said radios. 

If you are spending your own money, NTIA compliance is the metric. Beware though, you may find yourself at odds with a licensing officer with limited understanding of the rules.

So.........yeah............the "approved list" is "meet NTIA Narrow Band Standards".   Ergo....only those radios on the "approved list" can be used on CAP frequencies.

[wuzafuzz]

No...it is not legal to use "HAM" gear on CAP freqs.

Only those on the approved list can be used.

The FCC does not have anything to do with CAP Comm.  NTIA is our rules maker.

Equipment used on CAP frequencies does not have to be on the approved list.  That equipment must meet NTIA standards for the appropriate band. The "approved list" is provided for convenience since few people will understand NTIA standards. 

However, CAP regs say that list must be adhered to if you are buying radios with CAP funds. If anyone becomes aware of a suitable radio that isn't on the list yet, you can submit it for review.  I've done that and got thumbs up in return, so I could spend CAP money on said radios. 

If you are spending your own money, NTIA compliance is the metric. Beware though, you may find yourself at odds with a licensing officer with limited understanding of the rules.

So.........yeah............the "approved list" is "meet NTIA Narrow Band Standards".   Ergo....only those radios on the "approved list" can be used on CAP frequencies.

Wrong. 

According to CAPR 100-1 10-1. "Technical Requirements. The following technical requirements apply to all CAP
frequency assignments:
a. NTIA Compliance. All radio equipment utilized by CAP on DoD-allocated spectrum
must be compliant with NTIA requirements as listed in the current edition of the Manual of
Regulations & Procedures for Federal Radio Frequency Management ("Redbook"). Copies of
this manual may be downloaded from the NTIA website at:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/page/2011/manual-regulations-and-procedures-federal-radio-frequencymanagement-redbook.
For more information see the "Equipment Compliance List" section of
the National Communications website."

The "equipment compliance list" is not even an "approved list" but is a list of radios that have been reviewed to prove they are compliant.  That list exists for convenience but is not regulatory.  The NTIA requirements in the Redbook are the metric.

Case in point:
The Icom F8101 HF radio was added to our CAP compliance list after I asked NHQ to review it.  The radio didn't become NTIA compliant after their review, it was merely added to the convenience list.   It was OK to use even before being added to our list.  Again, that list is just for convenience so you have a list of radios that are known to be OK.  Otherwise you have to review standards to see if a given radio complies with NTIA standards.

The equipment compliance list is easy.  The list is convenient.  It is NOT a list of the "only" radios we are allowed to use.

We have enough rules without making new ones up out of thin air. 

[lordmonar]

That's what I said.   

[wuzafuzz]

I guess I misunderstood what you meant by "...only those radios on the "approved list" can be used on CAP frequencies." 

As long as folks understand NTIA doesn't publish a list of radios, and the CAP list isn't the final word, it's all good.

[PHall]

I guess I misunderstood what you meant by "...only those radios on the "approved list" can be used on CAP frequencies." 

As long as folks understand NTIA doesn't publish a list of radios, and the CAP list isn't the final word, it's all good.

I was under the impression that the CAP list is the final word.

[Holding Pattern]

I guess I misunderstood what you meant by "...only those radios on the "approved list" can be used on CAP frequencies." 

As long as folks understand NTIA doesn't publish a list of radios, and the CAP list isn't the final word, it's all good.

I was under the impression that the CAP list is the final word.

It isn't, otherwise the grandfathered wouxuns wouldn't be grandfathered.

[Brad]

The CAP list is a list of NTIA-compliant radios that the NTC has examined and confirmed said compliance and basically validated said claims. If you find a radio that you believe is NTIA-compliant based on the comparison of the NTIA standards against the listed specifications in the manual or, more preferably, your observation of tested specification through measuring equipment (hard to do, but more precise), then submit the information to the NTC to get the radio on the list.

[Theodore]

I think Ill keep my Baofeng now, after all. I was also under the impression that the list was the End-All-Be-All of radios you can use. Im so new to radios, please forgive the idiocy.

[Eclipse]

The CAP list is a list of NTIA-compliant radios that the NTC has examined and confirmed said compliance and basically validated said claims. If you find a radio that you believe is NTIA-compliant based on the comparison of the NTIA standards against the listed specifications in the manual or, more preferably, your observation of tested specification through measuring equipment (hard to do, but more precise), then submit the information to the NTC to get the radio on the list.

The problem here is that the list has been presented as the only list, exclusive of all others, even to the point of some wing DCs refusing to program
anything not on the list.

Right or wrong, getting a radio to work from that point is like ice skating uphill.  I have no need or desire to be able to program my personally-owned
radios, especially when there is someone charged with doing that for me.  Can I?  Probably.  Now it's the hunt for the cable, the freqs, the software, etc.

I'm an operator, I do not need to know how it works any more then I need to know why my VCR flashes 12. 

[arajca]

Comm staff is not charged with programming member owned radios, only corporate owned radios. Some comm staff may program member owned radios, if they have the cables and software, but there nothing that requires it.

[SarDragon]

I do it cuz I'm a nice guy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Theodore]

Chirp is great though

[Eclipse]

Comm staff is not charged with programming member owned radios, only corporate owned radios. Some comm staff may program member owned radios, if they have the cables and software, but there nothing that requires it.

My age is showing on this, and probably issues with former staffers and their interpretations.

Back in the day (I think it was a Tuesday), you couldn't get a station license unless your radio had been physically tested for compliance
by a Wing comm guy who also had the commercial cert (and equipment) to do the testing.  I still have the docs that show the
output power and spectrum spread, etc., of my pre-narrow-band POR.  This had to be repeated at re-license to insure the devices were still in spec.

Suffice to say that this made it difficult for members not in proximity to the few random people in the wing with the gear
and knowledge to be able to have a POR, which in Tribal Elder's defense, was for a while the only way a lot of members could ever
get a CAP radio.

I don't recall having to do that for my Visar, however I bought it from the then Wing DC who had the gear, so it might have been
done outside my purview.

[Spaceman3750]

Comm staff is not charged with programming member owned radios, only corporate owned radios. Some comm staff may program member owned radios, if they have the cables and software, but there nothing that requires it.

My age is showing on this, and probably issues with former staffers and their interpretations.

Back in the day (I think it was a Tuesday), you couldn't get a station license unless your radio had been physically tested for compliance
by a Wing comm guy who also had the commercial cert (and equipment) to do the testing.  I still have the docs that show the
output power and spectrum spread, etc., of my pre-narrow-band POR.  This had to be repeated at re-license to insure the devices were still in spec.

Suffice to say that this made it difficult for members not in proximity to the few random people in the wing with the gear
and knowledge to be able to have a POR, which in Tribal Elder's defense, was for a while the only way a lot of members could ever
get a CAP radio.

I don't recall having to do that for my Visar, however I bought it from the then Wing DC who had the gear, so it might have been
done outside my purview.

Last time I asked the current DC, this is no longer required for the reasons you mentioned.