PTSD and Mission Qualification and Status

[skydogjack]

This is a question that requires some background, but the question first.  As of current FAA medical desqualifing conditions, a diagnosis of PTSD and receiving disability is an automatic denial for a Class III medical. Many, otherwise highly capable and reliable pilots who seek help for wartime PTSD are now automatically denied or refused renewal of a Class III medical, ending their flying career and continued service, even as CAP pilots.  I've researched this issue, and it all boils down to the fact that PTSD is considered an anxiety disorder and receiving any disability income is evidence of a disqualifying condition.  Note, this does not apply to the Light  Sport Catgory, which does not require a medical.  The question is this.  Is CAP under any requirement to apply the same standard to other flight crew members, in other words, ban anyone with CAP from functioning as non pilot flight crew?

Background.  I went undiagnosed and untreated for PTSD for over 30 years, the culmination of my military service as a door gunner in Vietnam, services a police officer (my partner was murdered execution style before I could get to him), lost over a dozen officers in my career and ultimately was working in a classified position at a nuclear weapons lab, when it all caught up with me.  I was told to retire, get help and take a break.  That was 10 years ago.  After two months in a VA acute PTSD inpatient recovery program in 2003, then years of individual and group therapy, I'm better mentally and emotionally then in 30 years.  Oh, I was also a CAP SAR pilot at the time of my breakdown. So, I'm retired and on disability, am limited to flying Light Sport because of the flight medical situation (I also had four operations in the last two years, two for my eyes and two back surgeries to repair blown discs) and now see 20/25 uncorrected in both eyes, am back snow skiing, hiking with a 40 pound pack, am pain free for the first time in 30 years and feel like I'm back!  So, I've rejoined CAP, completed all the requirements for Scanner, just about done with Observer and accepted the responsibility as ES Officer and Photo Recon Officer.  I'm happier then ever, excited to be part of an organization I can use my skills (I even just completed my transition training to a Glass Cockpit) in the plane I fly, feel a sense of purpose for the first time in a long time, but I have not considered until I talked to a friend recently that CAP may consider me unfit due to my PTSD diagnosis and terminate my air operations status or worse, terminate my just brand new returning membership.  I can't even begin to say how demoralizing this would be.  Even though my records from all those years ago indicate I had SLS, I was temporary squadron commander, I'm already through the first module of the Officer Basic course, just started the second module and will finish all three in a few weeks, then apply for SLS and complete my Level II.

My personal question is this?  Am I wasting my time?  Is the effort, the study and all the time just going to end up being jerked out from under me?  The irony is I have a couple of saves when I was a CAP Mission Pilot and even flew fire spotting and counter drug in a mountain environment when I was getting no help for a really chronic and difficult condition.  I always did function even better under pressure.  Kinda funny if you think about it.  So now, I'm under almost no stress, have a comfortable life, and even though I functioned at a very high level for over 30 years without help or treatment, I live with the stigma of PTSD.

I'm at a point where I'm ready to give more, be a highly effect crew-member (I don't expect or even aspire to be a mission pilot again), if I'm in the right front seat, I'm a trained pilot, with high performance, complex and retractable endorsements, I do my BFR's to ASEL standards, even though I am limited to Light Sport, but I don't know how CAP or the Air Force will view me?  What do you think?

PS.  I'm on no medication except for seasonal allergies and AlevePM.

2nd Lt. Jack Harris
Civil Air Patrol

[SarDragon]

You're lucky that you can do Sport Flying. Once you've actually been denied a medical, even that's out.

I'm currently going through the medical process, along with cardiac issues, and gave gotten familiar with the applicable rules and regs. I haven't seen anything regarding medical issues/problems/requirements for non-pilot aircrew positions.

If someone's trying to give you the bum's rush, you should ask them to provide references in the rules and regs.

[PHall]

Don't need an FAA Medical to fly as a CAP Oberserver, Scanner or Aerial Photographer.
You do need a current FAA Class III or better to fly as a CAP Pilot.
So your days of flying in the left seat are over until you get your FAA Medical back.
The Aerial Photographer is the hot ticket these days.

[Spam]

Jack,

Welcome back in so many ways; you sound like you've established a positive rate of climb there!

See CAPR 36-1 Civil Air Patrol Nondiscrimination Program of 13 December 2012, at http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/R036_001_D6D80CB431788.pdf for a start. Your participation in CAP, a federally funded program, is protected from discrimination on the basis of race, sex, age, color, religion, national origin or disability (formerly handicap), per both CAP policy (that reg), USAF policy (AFI 36-2707, covering all USAF funded programs), and Title 10, United States Code, Section 9441 (1976 and Supp IV 1980).

So, in practical terms, what does that mean. If you are asking about retaining an FAA medical and pursuing MP qualification, the onus would be on your ME and FAA examiner first, and CAP's ability to award an MP rating would be limited by their determination.  However, since you're asking only about right seat/back seat MO/MS qualification, there should be zero reason at all for any obstacle, and if you're told otherwise you need to inform them that you'll need to have a discussion with higher about a potential violation of CAP and USAF policy and federal law.

PHall's got a great point about pursuing an AP ticket!  Again, welcome back!

V/R,
Spam

[skydogjack]

Hey, thanks for the comments already.  It's been a long, hard fought road, but I'm wired to serve.  To have purpose.  Honesty and transparency are paramount to me.  Barring any unforeseen circumstances, you'll see me right where I'm supposed to be.  Putting my knowledge and skills to work where they are best used. 

Be safe and keep the rubber side down.

Jack

[JacobAnn]

Welcome back Jack.  CAP is a better organization with people like you.

[Garibaldi]

Just have to answer one of your questions on a human level. You ask if you are wasting your time.

The short answer is no.

It sounds like you've done more than a lot of people in your position. Best. Therapy. Ever.

Keep it up, and perhaps one day in the not so distant future you will get back in the left seat. I know a guy who has an artificial leg who flew regularly before he ran out of money. I'm trying to see if I can get hI'm in.

[Storm Chaser]

I agree with everyone's comments. The lack of an FAA medical will not preclude you from flying as an observer, scanner or airborne photographer. As long as your PTSD doesn't affect your duties in CAP, you should be able to fully participate in all programs, missions and activities. If your PTSD or any other condition ever presents a safety hazard to you or your other crew members, then your participation may be restricted. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Welcome back and enjoy your work in CAP!

[skydogjack]

Thanks again for such great votes of confidence.  Today was a milestone day for me, and my return to aviation.  All the retraining so I can fly Light Sport and all my CAP flying experience and mountain training came together.  If you could see the smile on my face.  Duats weather briefing, PUSH briefing one hour before flight, VFR Flight Plan, Flight Following with Center and mostly no use of the autopilot when you have Verga, rain, wind sheer and chop the entire way back. And a tough cross wind landing.  Yikes.  Another knot higher, and it was no landing for this guy. Plus, how important it is to be able to read wind patterns when navigating a mountain pass.  Which side to be on, planned escape routes, etc, etc.  Thank you again CAP.  You taught me well.

I came back the way I went due to too much weather building to the West.  Any more mountain flying this time of year and it's got to start at 6:00am in this little plane. I even made a couple of Pireps on the way back as I avoided cloud bases that showed signs of Verga, and I used Foreflight on my iPad and could see the weather.  That technology is just amazing.

The little plane I'm flying actually has a higher power to weight ratio then a 172.  It's just so darn light weight it really gets knocked around a lot.  It's a stick, which I actually prefer flying now.  Seems so natural.

If anyone would like to see my route of flight, here is my flight plan with fixes.

KSAF, RENCO, KLVS, CIM, (GPS N36 degrees, 32.30 minutes by W105 degrees, 15.31 minutes), KAXX

Again, thanks for all the support.....

2nd Lt. Jack Harris

[skydogjack]

Just a quick checkin.  My squadron commander is fully supportive of me, I've got my first sign off for Scanner and am really happy to see CAP as an organization that can see past the stereotyping of individuals, recognize their abilities, their limitations and value and bring people together to work as a team for the benefit of everyone.  Makes me proud to be back.

2Lt. Jack Harris

[JeffDG]

Just a quick checkin.  My squadron commander is fully supportive of me, I've got my first sign off for Scanner and am really happy to see CAP as an organization that can see past the stereotyping of individuals, recognize their abilities, their limitations and value and bring people together to work as a team for the benefit of everyone.  Makes me proud to be back.

2Lt. Jack Harris

My experience is that CAP is pretty good about accommodation where possible.  CAP cannot demand that the FAA grant a medical to someone, but absent an actual mission-inhibiting disability, they won't hold it against you.

By "mission inhibiting disability", I mean things that will impact your ability to do the mission.  If you violently and continuously vomit anytime in a moving airplane, Mission Scanner/Mission Observer may not be for you...

[skydogjack]

Thanks.JeffDG.  I had to laugh on the getting sick thought.  Many yeas ago I was crew on several sailboat deliveries across the ocean.  I was the one who never got seasick.  That, I'm happy to report is the least of my concerns.  Thanks again.

[NIN]

Thanks.JeffDG.  I had to laugh on the getting sick thought.  Many yeas ago I was crew on several sailboat deliveries across the ocean.  I was the one who never got seasick.  That, I'm happy to report is the least of my concerns.  Thanks again.

I was a crew chief on Chinooks. The first 60 days or so on crew status, I would barf pretty violently about every other flight.  Little bit of JP4 fumes in the heater, a little too hot in the cabin, overdressed for the occasion, wallowing around in the back of the aircraft in turbulence in the dark, etc.  Here comes the cookies!  It got to the point where a mission in the afternoon/evening, my pre-flight meal would be half a turkey sub from the shoppette and a milk, cuz I knew it would be "better" when I saw it again.

Got so bad my Flight Engineer said "Do we need to send you to the flight docs?" I told him I was just getting my sea legs.


(After 60 days or so, I was fine)

[AirAux]

Skydogjack,  You need to be sure and disclose all of your past medical history on your application.  PTSD is a bad one.  It got you once, it could get you again.  CAP may or may not want to have that liability on their back.  Sorry for all your problems, thanks for all you've done and best of luck.

[skydogjack]

AirAux, I get it, as does thousands of other veterans who learned a long, long time ago to not seek help, to suck it up and keep quite.  The problem you point out my friend, is dead on.  Organizations, including the military don't want to own the responsibility of what the costs of service really is.  Yes, it's libility concerns to be sure, but when soldiers, police officers and other emergency first responders know their job is at risk if they speak up, well, all you have to do is look at what just happened in Germany.  Does anyone think that pilot concealed his mental problems for any reason other then to protect his job, and his dream.

When all wars start out, there are lots of flag waivers, but when it's over, not so much, especially if the conflict and our involvement are considered failures.  I hate to break it to everyone, but these current wars?  The general attitude is they are now seen as failures by the public, and despite all the education out there regarding the consequences our soldier are paying, we can see the dismal failure of the VA and the military in taking care of their own. 

There is, unfortunately now an ever increasing attitude by business owners to not want to hire returning veterans because of "libility" concerns regarding PTSD.  And AirAux, there is no, "once you've got it, you could get it again".  PTSD is a permanent condition that has no cure.  If someone has it, they can learn how to better deal with it and be functional.  I'm sorry, but the comment, "PTSD is a bad one".  Are you serious?  When we got back from Vietnam we were called "baby killers".  I've not killed any babies, and in fact a large part of my military PTSD was I refused an order to kill a small child with an M60 machine gun.  Yes, it haunted me for years, but I've come to peace with it.  And all the lives I saved as a police officer?  My PTSD did not turn me into a lunatic, someone who did not know the difference between right and wrong.  And my ability and skill to be a SAR pilot?  My PTSD did not effect that.  So, I'll put you on the spot.  Where s the libility and where do you come up with, "PTSD is a bad one"?  For me, it was going over 30 years without help or even being able to talk about my experiences.  That my friend is what makes it bad, and we as a nation are just repeating the same mistakes all over, just as we did with the soldiers of Vietnam.  Will we ever learn?

Respectfully,

2nd. Lt. Jack Harris

[skydogjack]

Oh, I've not been simply sitting around waiting for someone else to try and make some changes.  If you like, here is just one of my efforts over these last 10 years. If you want to skip the introduction, time index to 2 minutes, 10 seconds.

http://youtu.be/8CXpxCaZvtY

2nd Lt. Jack Harris

[skydogjack]

One other thought.  Regardless of my future with CAP, this is the perfect forum for this discussion.  When your ES, whether air or ground crew, the ability, the knowledge that you can seek help, especially if it involves loss of life, mass distraction, that ability is essential to get ahead of developing Ong term ptsd. This is actually now part of CAP and Air Force philosophy. Research has now shown that immediate help plays a large role in helping first responders and military to minimize the development of ptsd symptoms.  The problem still is, people will not seek help if they believe they will be punished.

[AirAux]

Skydogjack,

In response to:"Where s the libility (sp) and where do you come up with, "PTSD is a bad one"?"  You noted, "ultimately was working in a classified position at a nuclear weapons lab, when it all caught up with me.  I was told to retire, get help and take a break.  That was 10 years ago.  After two months in a VA acute PTSD inpatient recovery program in 2003"  what happened that you ended up in an inpatient recovery program?  What did you do?  As you said, once you have it you always have it.  There is always the chance that you will snap again or do whatever happened last time.  Allowing the patient to state when they are well is not good medicine.  A friend of mine was killed instructing in a twin engine when the student went bezerk and crashed the aircraft.  To keep quiet to save your job and then cause the death of 150 others makes one aware that people with these illnesses can not be depended upon to make proper decisions.  Obviously something you did caused you to end up inpatient.  Could that possibly happen again?  I am promilitary.  I am a veteran.  I am in the medical field and I am in the legal field.  Further, I work with disabled people on a daily basis.  Unfortunately PTSD is being used in the mental health field like candy.  10 year olds to 90 year olds.  A radio operator that never saw any action in Afganistan.  Stayed at the post all the time.  Several of his buddies were killed.  Not when he was anywhere around.  This is downplaying the true PTSD survivors.   

[skydogjack]

AirAux,

Personal attack are not necessary.  I work for helping people and veterans.  I'm for giving people a chance, just as the FAA grants waivers for commerical airline pilots who have a PTSD diagnosis. If absolute risk "avoidance" is your goal, then we got a lot of pilots, service men and women and first responders that need to be sidelined and find a new career. Tell yoy what, PM me and les exchange phone numbers and we can talk n person, and I'll tell you what took me over the edge to the extent I can, because guess what?  Much of it was and still is classified.  Deal?

[skydogjack]

AirAux, I sent you my contact info and some additional personal info on myself in a PM. I'm inviting you to dialogue with me.  We may not agree on everything, but I believe, as I said in my PM, this topic is too important for either of us to hijack it with personal opinums? Agreed? Let's talk.  W can do more to help as allies, then adversaries....

[THRAWN]

Much of it was and still is classified. 

I was wondering how long it would take until this line appeared.

[skydogjack]

Astute observation Thrawn.  I'm not the first, nor certainly not the last to get caught up in the issues and problems in that world.  I just did not have the personal skills to handle it when "things" happen.  It sounds like I'm talking in circles, but I suspect you know better from your comment.  So, this might actually be another good opportunity to point out that in ES, all the national security stuff, can be in and of itself, stress producing.  My situation is of course different regarding my past, but for CAP, it might be a good idea for the organization to have a more senior member, probably who are mentors, maybe the PDO to make it known they are available to talk about the "sensitive" aspects of our organization. In just about every aspect of this concern that I've been involved in, there has never been a "human" side of the conversation, regardless of which agency I was working for.  Only the "terror" tactic to drive home to point, "you screw up, you to prison".  I've had that debrief, where the last thing you do is sign your name and acknowledge, you can go to prison the rest of your life.  Yuck!

[sarmed1]

The whole PTSD thing creates a very slippery slope that there is no cookie cutter answer for.  (everyone's situation is different, yet the world tries to apply a cookie cutter solution to... be it cause, treatment, restrictions, relapse etc etc)

For example:  I am familiar with a former USA medic that is 100% disabled due to to his PTSD from his experience while deployed (he is more than happy to tell you about the "the bad stuff he had to see") Initially 50% then upgraded to 100% at the urging of the VA once he "attempted" to maintain regular work but could not due to his "issues"  (there were also some legal issues-assault/battery outside of work) TBI is considered a contributing factor.

I'm ok with that, it sucks, I know more than a few people over the past 40 years worth of associated military conflicts that have/had similar issues.  I am also very familiar that it can be 1 deployment, 1 incident or 10 deployments and 100 incidents. 

The concern:  said person insists that he is ok to do such things as (volunteer) to perform confined space rescue, hazardous material operations, building collapse rescue, motor vehicle rescue and general fire fighting and medical response?  How can I as a supervisory individual (I am not in this persons case, but for the purpose of discussion) feel comfortable placing him into some very difficult and stress producing situations that have a very high likelyhood to replicate the same "bad stuff" that he experienced to put him into 100% disablilty in the first place?  If PTSD is so bad that you cant function in a real job how is it a non issue in a volunteer job?  In a world of hind sight and high frequency of litigation, do I equally want to risk my and my organizations collective rear ends on the chance that something bad could happen?  Where would my/our guilt rest of knowing the "risk" and I ignored it/did nothing else to mitigate it? (specific incident-100% disability)  Show me a letter from your physician that says you are mentally fit to perform those duties and sure no problem, your good to go-of course said letter would likey also mean the end of you disability payment.  (I wouldnt want to do that for a volunteer job)

Before I get bashed on-like I said everyones situations are different and there are no cookie cutter answers; but examples like that are why (even if misguided) that people with PTSD issues are not always a good fit for some jobs or activities.

mk

[Spam]

Jack (and all):

I'm all about standing by vets (thank you) and preserving access rights, but I will say this:  you need to put a lid on the security related comments and inferences right now.

If you've been cleared and accessed then you should know better, as these boards are monitored. This is about CAP, not any past or present cleared work, which should have no mention here.

Thanks much,
Spam

[skydogjack]

Point taken Spam.  Your right, of course.  The last thing I want is a visit from the FBI.  Thanks for reminding me.

And, sarmed1, i'll not bash you on your comment.  Your point is clear and written in a non offensive manner. And, you are right enough in your perspective to justify my removal from just about any position of responsibility, whether paid or volunteer.  That is the stigma though, if you stop to consider that it makes very little difference how much work one has done in their life to improve upon their circumstances.  It's a label that carries a brand.  That of course is why people hide it.  It presents, I'm afraid more of an issue for people in positions of supervision, then the person with the label.  How indeed do you supervise someone that you know has had "issues" in their past?  You don't. You don't hire them or accept them as a volunteer. They just need to find something else to do, or, conceal their past.  I don't envy you in the least on this topic.  For me, I can just fade away.  You however, are faced with supervising those that conceal, hide and deceive, just so they can have a job or a place in society. 

[sarmed1]

Job and CAP (or other XYZ volunteer "thing") are very different.  In CAP there is always something you can do to contribute to the mission.  It may not be the what you want to do or wish you could do, but even with whatever "disability" issue there is, the contributions can be and are signifigant.  Everyone has the potential to have limitations to their performance; especially in a volunteer organization as a supervisor you have to be able to accept that and find ways to work with that (disabilities or just genreal human nature, declared, hidden or whatever.  Thats part of good people management skills.   
Part of being a responsible leader is recognizing when for the good of everyone you may need to enforce a limitation on someone becuase of their "issues" (or unfortantely because of someone else's issues); even if you dont like it or dont agree with it.  A good leader will find a way to make it work if there is a way (military expereince has taught me there is a waiver for just about anything if you look hard enough); a poor leader just gives you the shrug and pawns it off as someone elses fault.

PTSD is just another line on the list of stigmas we all have to deal with; take your pick many of us have seen a lot of them im sure (some have surely been them), some come some go, some remain no matter what.

mk

[skydogjack]

I know sarmed1.  I'm already prepared for "bad news".  I don't really expect to be trusted to perform any job where lives are at stake. I have even considered the blowback CAP could get from parents of cadets if they found out someone with a ptsd diagnosis was to be trusted with their children.  I decided to bring this out in the open for a tactical reason, and that was to avoid getting my heart attached to something I really wanted to do, and then having it pulled away.  The forum I think is a good cross section of our, military or military like environment.  There have been those that take the opposite position of you and others.  Who is right?  Well, as you and I both know, it will be someone further up the chain of command.  If not Wing, someone higher.  And in all sincerity, the only the only thing that could ihappen is  that I'm surprised and someone will make a decision differnt then I expect, which is to be told, no.   Guess the final challenge would be then, would anyone even want to work with me.  And, there are organizations I can do volunteer work for that are geared towards people like me.  I'm already looking.  Thanks for your honesty, and I hope no one gives you any crap for just being honest.

[skydogjack]

Sarmed1,

I totally forgot to thank you for your pointing out a simple fact surrounding PTSD issues.  That being it can be one incident or hundreds.  The fact that you know that tells me you understand, at least the basics of the condition.  In my case, Vietnam accounted for only a few really traumatic events.  I was also partially responsible for the death of a Vietnamese family from an aerial flare deployment on a Nighthawk mission  that failed to deploy the chute.  It's fell through their hut and they all burned alive.  The entire aircrew got called in and even though all the procedures that night were followed, the [darn] thing did not operate correctly.  I carried that for years.  The VA looked at that, a few other combat incidents and they included as a continued component of my original trauma, all the death and incidents in my career in law enforcement.  It's a combination of them all, and when you combine it all together, it did amount to 100's.  For me, I count myself as one of the lucky ones.  I came out if a long and difficult run, and instead of crashing and burning, I got help from some really great people.  I admitted myself to the VA PTSD recovery program, and today, I'm doing pretty darn good.  I just wanted to get back to doing something I am good at and love.

  There is a lot in what you wrote, in your words that I can see that you care.  I bet you were a good supervisor for your men.  Care......

Jack

[sarmed1]

thanks, I dont get it right every time, but I try.

Despite the "stigma" I think you may be selling yourself a little short.  I have worked with and still do work with plenty of people with varying amounts of PTSD (diagnosed and undiagnosed) as co-workers in various settings (from the very mild to the very stressful).  Sure there are some people that have "issue" with the "risk" but for the most part those that are involved in the community CAP circles in (including parents who send their children into the cadet program)  understand that it is a job hazard and likely part of the trade off that makes us good at the things that we do....
I have seen people given mission qualifications that have missing limbs, missing eyes, head injuries, uncontrolled diabetes, heart conditions and PTSD. (I even knew of one that was blind)   How many folks are on AD or Reserve status that have some of those diagnosis.... (just read an article about 3 army guys that have varying degrees of prosthetic limbs, including one as fully qualified ranger)  Like previously mentioned, CAP can not control what the FAA has to say concerning medicals, but everything short of that you are more than likely good to go (you may get some gruff here and there, but with the history it sounds like you have some experience letting it roll off your back)

mk

[skydogjack]

This will be my last post unless someone has a specific  question.  First, I'd like to really thank each of yoiu that took the time to engage in this topic.  Today, we have returning several hundred thousand soldiers from two very difficult recent wars.  The topic of PTSD is more relevant today, then ever before.  Any organization, we as a people and individuals that are able to see the value a person brings, look past our preconceived ideas and find a way to help that person reintegrate into society and feel they still have worth, I believe is a definite higher calling to which we should answer.

I'm proud to be part of an organization, that has since WWII answered the call to serve our nation and its people.  Thank you CAP for sticking with me.  For me, things have worked out and met my expectations and I'm looking forward to the opportunity to be able to give, and thereby receive.  CAP is a great organization and your leadership and actions, following your own high standards is what I'll always remember.

And, lastly, what an amazing thing to be part of, a topic, a dialog where in only a few days, almost a 1000 people viewed, and quite a few took part.

Thanks again for showing up.

2nd. Lt. Jack Harris
Civil Air Patrol

[skydogjack]

A final request.  I can't imagine that this topic has not been seen by CAP National Hq, but sometimes, importatant topics do go unnoticed.  So, I'd bet money that one of you has a direct connect to the national commander.  I'd ask someone to be sure this topic is seen by the highest levels in our organization.  The opportunity to reach out for new recruits who have skills and discipline from their military service, many though that are struggling to find purpose and a somewhat familiar place to "belong", I strongly believe CAP can be just the place for them.  You know, some will have trouble adjusting, but they are worth the effort

The president of the Uniged States started an initiative not long ago to have 100,000 of our returning soldiers be hired as police officers and firefighters.  Why?  Because they will feel at home, part of something important where their abilities can continue to serve our great nation. Let's do this for them.  And, that really is my last post on this topic.

Respectfully,

2nd. Lt. Jack Harris

[skydogjack]

Just a quick check in for those that were following this conversation.  I've been busy with family medical stuff but have had an opportunity to work with some younger veterans with adjustment and career paths. Also ended up moving back to Austin, Texas to be closer to family, friends and my gals doctors.  She had two surgeries, both went well.  Least anyone thought I'd given up on CAP, I'm going to see about transferring here to continue my volunteer work in our organization and look forward to contuning to advance CAP as an organization for our veterans to get involved in.

Thats about it.  All else is well and looking forward to the end of summer heat here in Texas.

2Lt. Jack G Harris

[Fixedwing]

FWIW:  I just checked with an FAA Senior Aviation Medical Examiner who said that the PTSD thing depends on the specifics of individual cases.  They want a letter from the individuals primary care physician or shrink (as applicable) detailing the case, medications if any, etc.  Apparently it is not an automatic deal breaker.

[blackrain]

After every trip downrange they harp to the troops about how seeking mental help won't have negative consequences for one's career. I hate to say it but I've always been of the opinion to take what you hear with a grain of salt because there are a multitude of ways the reality is often different and I actually saw it happen not long ago with a troop. I've even mentioned the fact that pilots have to be very careful what they say to the military docs because pilots hold an FAA medical certificate and you never know what the FAA will do. Nobody comes out of an encounter with the FAA/AME having a better day than when they went in and it can certainly be worse.

[Storm Chaser]

On the other hand, not being honest about your physical or mental health can potentially put other people in danger. There are reasons for these restrictions and the FAA and medical examiners are just trying to keep you and everyone else safe.

[TheSkyHornet]

...Until you get passed off to some nurse to conduct your exam who feeds you a bunch of inaccurate information.

It's always the responsibility of the certificate holder to know his/her obligations and requirements, but that's why you have professionals working in the arena to provide guidance based off of knowledge, not assumptions or false beliefs.

How many people have been told "you can't fly" over the years because someone thought the wrong thing rather than checking the regulations? I can't begin to count how many times I've been told by people "You can't fly if you wear glasses." Throw in a bunch of references to anxiety issues and suddenly it's a whole new world of "You can't do this or that" without having a single clue of existing standards.

[skydogjack]

Thanks for the great comments.  Well, I'm pretty happy right now.  Finally getting settled into my new squadron.  Really nice folks.  Just finished my Airborn Photograper requirements and need to flights to finish that.  Same with my MO.  As is usually the case, getting CAP training flights funded is a constant challenge.
I got to fly a WWII Navy AT6 a few weeks ago with a CFI.  Got to do my first ever loop!  I love the AT6.  So much fun to fly.

I continue to fly LSA and am very content not being a mission pilot anymore.  The AP position is really very important to CAP and I'm happy to be on track for that position.  I'll continue to advocate for our veterans and as y'all recently pointed out, one needs to be honest and even if the rules allowed me to be a mission pilot, I'd probable decline.  I've had my time in that position and whether in the right seat or back, it's all good for me.

Jack

PS.  I think I've had to do more study and reading for CAP then when I was in graduate school.  Yikes!

[Fixedwing]

Well, spoke with an FAA Senior AeroMedical guy who guessed that perhaps fifty people diagnosed with PTSD hold a Class 3 or better.   Having reviewed the requirements I can see why.  It is a two page single space list of stuff, some of which maybe impossible for some folks (e.g. records of entire psychiatric history),
records of all medication (ever I guess) plus the foregoing almost certainly contains sensitive personal information the individual may or may not want released.
They specify tests that they require the applicant to take, plus a current psych eval (to FAA standards) by both a psychiatrist and a psychologist (all at applicant's expense) and on and on.  It certainly is not impossible but it is expensive, difficult and time consuming.  If the diagnosis is not recent some of the required records may no longer exist.  FWIW