Community Emergency Response Team (CERT)

[LTC_Gadget]

Some folks have said that they're concerned that we're insufficiently trained, not professional, etc..

Well, Dept of Homeland Security will be encouraging those even less so:

http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/

"The Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) program helps train people to be better prepared to respond to emergency situations in their communities. When emergencies happen, CERT members can give critical support to first responders, provide immediate assistance to victims, and organize spontaneous volunteers at a disaster site. CERT members can also help with non-emergency projects that help improve the safety of the community.

The CERT course is taught in the community by a trained team of first responders who have completed a CERT Train-the-Trainer course conducted by their state training office for emergency management, or FEMA's Emergency Management Institute (EMI), located in Emmitsburg, Maryland. CERT training includes disaster preparedness, disaster fire suppression, basic disaster medical operations, and light search and rescue operations.

Over the next two years, the CERT program aims to double the number of participants, with over 400,000 individuals completing the 20 plus hours of training. Train-the-Trainer sessions will be held in all 56 states and territories over the next year to expand the program throughout the United States."

"The Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) Program educates people about disaster preparedness for hazards that may impact their area and trains them in basic disaster response skills, such as fire safety, light search and rescue, team organization, and disaster medical operations. Using the training learned in the classroom and during exercises, CERT members can assist others in their neighborhood or workplace following an event when professional responders are not immediately available to help. CERT members also are encouraged to support emergency response agencies by taking a more active role in emergency preparedness projects in their community."
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So, now, twenty hours of training and folks will be of the opinion that they're qualified to do what we do??  On the face of it, it ranks right up there with eight hour classes for teachers on a range of subjects from child abuse, to ADD, where they take one class, and suddenly think they're a subject matter expert.  Let's hope that they also teach them how to be smart enough to know what they don't know.. For the content that's there, it's scary.. Who knows 'the rest of the story?'

V/R,

[floridacyclist]

How do you think they see themselves as being like us? I must have totally missed something. Granted, some groups are organized more as FD/EMS auxiliaries (and some actually deploy to other areas, something that I have a basic problem with in many ways as I think it goes against the fundamental idea of neighbors training to help neighbors, but I also understand the usefulness of minimally-trained volunteers, epecially if they have a working understanding of how to help and when to get out of the way - they can be a great force multiplier), but the main thrust is to teach people to take care of themselves and their neighbors when a major disaster hits and the professional responders are either too busy with multiple calls or unable to respond due to blocked roads etc etc. For example, in my neighborhood three well-placed trees will effectively block all vehicular traffic in and out until you cut your way through; that's not too far-fetched a scenario in the immediate aftermath of a hurricane.

One of the Firefighters (a Battallion Chief from Daytona) who taught our CERT TTT class told us how they were not allowed to enter the neighborhoods in Central Florida last month after the tornados until it was light enough to see....until they could go in, the only help those folks had was from the neighborhood CERT teams. CERT is not like some kind of "junior wannabe volunteer firefighter", it is simply neighbors learning how to prepare and take care of each other until the cavalry can arrive and I think it is very good training, especially for the cadets. In fact, much of our crash-site training is being based on the CERT training materials as the concepts of being on the scene of a potentially dangerous traumatic incident with professional help on the way but not expected immediately is very similar to what we would face whether a disaster struck our neighborhood or we were first on-scene at a plane crash with survivors.

A big part of the training is how to avoid being hurt; over 100 would-be rescuers were killed in the aftermath of the big Mexico City earthquake, and that was a major reason why the CERT concept was born. As a CERT TTT, I can vouch for the fact that we spend possibly more time teaching folks when to get out of the way or not attempt a rescue than when to move forward.

[wingnut]

I have been first responder on several major disasters and I have to say that a cadre of partially trained community activists is a GREAT idea, people getting involved and prepared.

All of our CAP members should be CERT trained, can't hurt, most CAP members have very little REAL disaster training. I say most! I know some of you carry survival gear in your Jocky shorts,  and in a pinch I would rather be with my Squadron buddys, but ??

[sardak]

Under the proposed NIMS credentialing, both Mountain Rescue and Wilderness SAR technicians must have:

CERT (G-371) or equivalent, for disaster related or INS (Incidents of National Significance) response.

In the same document general note 6 reads:
SAR-related resources such as Citizen Corps (Community Emergency Response Team [CERT], Volunteers in Police Support [VIPS], Medical Reserve Corps [MRC], FireCorps) and other SAR units can be utilized in Cold, Warm, and Hot Zone functions in wilderness and urban/disaster situations when they meet requirements for the given hazards to be entered or encountered at least at the "awareness" level as determined by the Operations Section member with the given hazard knowledge.

Mike

[LTC_Gadget]

Thanx, fc...
Everything you said makes sense, and fits into 'the big picture.'  I'm glad that I asked the question because I didn't get anything that you had to say out of what I read.  I was in a whole other neighborhood of thought. When they said 'light search and rescue,' etc., I could see volunteers showing up at a mission base wanting to volunteer to help us do what we do.  I wasn't thinking anywhere near what you explained. Thanx for getting me onto the right track, and for the enlightenment.  It makes sense now.

V/R,

[DNall]

We're doing some stuff here in Texas, and this might get me smacked around, but basically they asked the state why we didn't get more ground missions, the state said we wweren't qual'd to do anything & suggested we get CERT, so the push is for CERT... having seen CERT teams in action, they aren't that impressive & no where near the training level I'd expect of front line CAP GTs. Certainly we need to stopgap the problem, and CERT is good intro training for disaster, but it is by no means anything but an intro. I do encourage getting it though as it serves as a good jumpstart to the other training & could make an inexperienced GTM functional in a disaster zone under good leadership. Just don't overplay it is all.

[SAR-EMT1]

I have run into a situation where a local official was going to use a CERT team as if they were the Green Berets of ES after a tornado... big mistake.
Although they are still touted as the local ESDA-King's personal Army. 

Once I dealt with a search for an Alzheimer's pt.  I wanted to get  CAP involved however I ran into the ESDA director stating that the CERT was better trained and that-
"CAP GT's ain't worth s*&t ... I was a CAP member once and I should know... now get back to your friggin ambulance"

I would propose making CERT a req. for UDF.

-- Light SAR might fit that area and the CERT 'fanny pack' would be a precursor to the 24 and 72 hr gear packs of basic and advanced GT members. Finally it might help gain some familiarity of ability with local Authorities- as GTMs might do good to get SARTECH  - but thats a dif thread-

Thoughts.

[floridacyclist]

Light SAR is Urban SAR...moving stuff off people. We do a lot of training on lifting with levers and cribbing....none of that wilderness stuff.

[desert rat]

Why don't you all just take the intro course to CERT online and see what they are about.  I took it in a few minutes.

https://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/training_mat.shtm

[floridacyclist]

Not sure if that gives the certificate or not, but you can also get it at http://www.training.fema.gov/emiweb/IS/is317.asp

Note that merely completing the online course doesn't count, you have to take the classes with the pratical too...although the online course is a good start.

We actually use the online course as our final exam AFTER we do the classroom work.

[SAR-EMT1]

Light SAR is Urban SAR...moving stuff off people. We do a lot of training on lifting with levers and cribbing....none of that wilderness stuff.

Well then wouldnt Urban SAR fit right in with URBAN DIRECTION FINDING ? 

[LTC_Gadget]

I have run into a situation where a local official was going to use a CERT team as if they were the Green Berets of ES after a tornado... big mistake.
Although they are still touted as the local ESDA-King's personal Army. 

Once I dealt with a search for an Alzheimer's pt.  I wanted to get  CAP involved however I ran into the ESDA director stating that the CERT was better trained and that-
"CAP GT's ain't worth s*&t ... I was a CAP member once and I should know... now get back to your friggin ambulance"

THAT'S exactly what I was afraid of.  Fourteen to twenty hours of training, and they'll thing they're all that, and we don't know Maj. Jack.  If we 'cave in' and put their training first, aren't we "admitting" that they're right?  We spend more than twenty hours getting qualified in any/each of the specialties that we perform.  And that only makes us competent in one skill.  And we don't presume to think that we're SAR gods in any case.  I'd think someone at the top, both CAP and DHS needs to clarify that an 'introduction' doesn't constitute 'qualification' in anything.  As for the ESDA director that said what he did, I hope there's a special place in **** for him, and others like him.

V/R,

[floridacyclist]

Well then wouldnt Urban SAR fit right in with URBAN DIRECTION FINDING ? 

Totally different. UDF is completely non-emergency in nature and is often performed by the local FBO or Sheriff's Office. The person with half a roof and a 200-lb filing cabinet on his chest might feel differently about USAR and while it might be better to have professional USAR workers present, that might not always be an immediate option.

[IronRangerMN]

UDF and GT are very similar except GT requires knowlage on UDF skills. Not really the other way around though.

[floridacyclist]

I'm not sure if you were replying to me and if you weren't, I apologize. I said that UDF wasn't emergency-related, not GTM/L.

Around here, we don't even mess with UDF training. We had one training blitz weekend a while back to get everyone qualified so that we could run ELT missions if they popped up (which almost never happens anymore) but since then most of our training has been weekend Ranger schools (I'm Project Officer for the North Florida Ranger School) and preparing for a week-long Communications Camp (lots of ham radio, Emergency Communications and ICS training in addition to all the normal CAP comm classes). My biggest issue with UDF is that everyone tries to get it to run missions, but when an airplane actually goes down, all you have are a bunch of blue-shirt and grey-slacks-wearing SMs or cadets who don't know a compass from a pair of combat boots. As an interim step (or for someone who simply has no interest in getting muddy and scratched) it's fine, I just hate to confuse it with "Emergency Services".

[Psicorp]

The thing is many cadets and  seniors in CAP are in it for areospace stuff. That does not help for GT for a second. Actually, GT suffers greatly in a unit when they focus on AE. Im not sure if anyone will agree with me, many of you might be in for AE and pilot stuff. Ill just hope for the best in response to this.

Just remember, ES is just one of the three Missions of CAP.  It is by no means a requirement, especially for Cadets.  There is nothing that says that Cadets have to be anywhere near ES; it's kinda like spandex...a privilege, not a right.

For those units who want to focus on the Cadet Program and Aerospace Education "stuff", that's their prerogative and I'm sure they don't give ES (or GT) much thought at all.  If you look closely at the Cadet Program you'll find enough "stuff" in there to keep every meeting schedule pretty full.

[IronRangerMN]

Of course units should never focus on 1 part of CAP. Balance is needed everywhere in life. But I do like GT more than AE. But most disagree with me.

[sschwab]

Back to CERT, it is a good place to find those who are willing to volunteer time, and those are the people you can recruit into CAP.  That is how I ended up in CAP.

Another good point about CERT, while they may not be able to do missing person searches, at least if a large disaster hits, you stand a better chance of finding someone with spare 4x4 gauss pads and understands how to press hard and hold a bleeder.

Finally, it also gives CAP members time to mingle with police and firefighters, who happen to be the people who may make the request for CAP help in a search.  It never hurts to remind them that CAP is more then ex-military pilots looking for free flying time.

[DNall]

I haven't seen CAP involved with CERT in that way. What I've seen in CAP getting instructors trained & doing our own in-house CERT training to establish stand along individuals &/or teams that are not known or linked to any jurisdiction. Then thinking this somehow generates missions.

Basically CAP asked someone at the state how to get more missions, the state said CAP? Silly little volunteers that want to help out in emergencies? Oh yeah that's CERT, go do that & come back when you got your people trained up. It's certainly not the "green beret" SaR/disaster force mentioned above, which is what CAP can & should be.

So basically CERT is a waste of time other than checking a box on the way to something MUCH more significant. It's fine for introductory training, but wastes a LOT of time in that process in a class taught WAY below the level of anyone you should let within a mile of a GTM/T slot.

[Pylon]

Anyway, there is nothing saying cadets need to do any areospace "stuff" aside from the tests for promotion, but its easier than school quizes thankfully. I know probably most of the CAP units in the country do more AE than ES.

There's good reason for that.  For one, in many areas of the country, CAP is not the SAR agency that's going to get called if a plane crashes, a person goes missing in the woods or there's a natural disaster.  In fact, around here CAP won't be the secondary, tertiary, or even the octonary agency called.  Some states already have agencys they prefer to use.  While you can argue that CAP should ramp up training to meet non-existent needs and that upper-echelon leaders need to be building relationships with the State to get CAP involved, I'd rather not spend all my training time in the meantime teaching my cadets skills they just won't ever use in CAP.   

I'm not discounting the worth of your training; in fact, I admire units that have active and well trained and squared away GTs that involve the cadets.  I'm simply saying in other words, I won't hold my breath for the phone to ring with a real GT mission around these parts, and that's why there are many units who don't focus heavily on ES training for their cadets. 

[SAR-EMT1]

I just wanted to ask why several here say UDF is a 'non-emergency' mission.
               - meaning no ill towards anyone-

I ask this simple question:  How do you know?

How does a UDF team know its a false alarm/dead battery/ forgetful owner/ resonating television until they see the ELT? we have no way of knowing what a signal is until we prosecute the dang thing. It could be a plane crunched in wood. A pilot may have set a bird down hard after having a midair MI.  We don't know.

Is it common? No gentlemen it is not.  Is it possible? Yes gentlemen it is.


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As for CERT
I agree totally that it is 'below our capability' - for lack of a better term.
But if CAP GTs take the course - out of house- where we can interface with Fire, Police and EMS and FEMA/ESDA it might get us some recognition/missions.  The fact  is that some state folks see CERT as a GES test for SAR. If we dont take it -out of house- (where the face time is)
we may never be recognized by some potential IC's
-- see my earlier experience on page 1. --

[DNall]

I just wanted to ask why several here say UDF is a 'non-emergency' mission.

Cause if you put it down in a populated area then the controllers would know you're down. The basis for UDF is if appears to be non-distress in a populated area then you can send those guys. If you do come on a crash, then you call 911 & they're on-scene in a few minutes.

GT involves situations where it is more likly to be distress, well away from civilization, where you may be out there for a while, and where if you find something help is not going to easily get to you any time soon - the best chance you got is bringing in a rescue helo.

As for CERT...I agree totally that it is 'below our capability' - for lack of a better term. But if CAP GTs take the course - out of house- where we can interface with Fire, Police and EMS and FEMA/ESDA it might get us some recognition/missions.  The fact  is that some state folks see CERT as a GES test for SAR. If we dont take it -out of house- (where the face time is) we may never be recognized by some potential IC's

I understand what you're saying, but SaR managers are not in those courses with you, LE/EMS/FD/EOC/etc are not in that course with you, their front line volunteers are not in that course with you. CAP is coming to these full-time paid organizations & saying, "we have capabilities & resources greater than what you are capable of putting in the field." Not every state, and certainly not every little jurisdiction can field a combined expert air/grd rescue team, so the feds provide that to them in CAP. What we have to do is live up to that kind of standard. That being the same standard as the pros, but specialized in our areas of work & with air/grd/comm capabilities they aren't going to have access to.

What I'm saying is CERT is fine as a GES-type intro to disaster work, but it's insulting for most operators, and you don't want the unknown CAP sending the message to outside orgs that CERT is where they know us from, when really we're trying to sell ourselves as something greater than they can field.

[SAR-EMT1]

My 'job' - I hardly call it that since i have fun doing it-
is fire/ems. Around here you have many small locales with vol. fire/ems depts.  and very few paid depts. Point is, I know of some ems/fire/LE depts that require CERT of the membership, along with the ICS courses and storm spotting, damage assessment etc. 
If we approach them and say we have CERT, ICS through 800, over 100 hours of Wilderness Search and Rescue experience, an Airborne Search capability, (maybe SARTECH), EMTs on staff - if applicable-,  internal comms nationwide, etc... we might get some taskings.

The trick to approaching government folks is to put our capabilities in language they can understand. - It is for this same reason that ICS preaches comm talk, be in the clear without things like 10 codes or other identifiers that everyone may not know.

After they understand our capabilities one must dangle a carrot in front of the stubborn A** mule. This is done so that they see it as being of value to them. 
For example a local Red Cross group wanted to help at a charity event by providing several 'comfort stations' - snacks, water, seats etc... -
The local hospital was to have done this originally and billed the chamber of commerce for it. Red Cross considered it a training exercise for some folks and didn't charge the city a dime.
  We could do the same thing. - As far as offering services that others [FD/EMS/PD etc ]   usually pay for -

meh.. this isn't new info to anyone...

[BillB]

Locally CERT is working with the County EMS Reserve and Sheriffs Office to develop ground search teams. They practice "in the woods" at least once a month. Local CAP hasn't had a practice ground SAR training exercise in several years.  CAPs local capability amounts to UDF teams and that's about it. Communications for emergencies is provided by radio amatuers using base/mobile and hand held radios. CAP has lost a great percentage of communications capability due to the narrow band changeover and there are less than 5 member owned and corporate radios. There is a local corporate aircraft, but the neumber of form 5 mission pilots is very low.
So there is no reason for Emergency management/FEMA to consider CAP locally. CAP has nothing to offer

[DNall]

That's too bad, apply some leadership & fix it. There's radios to go around, just stand up more GTs & they'll give you radios. We haven't had any issue with that. I don't know why you aren't training or practicing, but we have a paid distributed sarex here every other month, formal Gp-wide UDF & GTM schools twice a year, plus local training & Sqs teaming up on stuff. In other words, it seems fixable with some motivation & leadership. Once you do that you can get out & network with EMAs & such to present your capabilities.

[Capt Rivera]

Locally CERT is working with the County EMS Reserve and Sheriffs Office to develop ground search teams. They practice "in the woods" at least once a month. Local CAP hasn't had a practice ground SAR training exercise in several years.  CAPs local capability amounts to UDF teams and that's about it. Communications for emergencies is provided by radio amatuers using base/mobile and hand held radios. CAP has lost a great percentage of communications capability due to the narrow band changeover and there are less than 5 member owned and corporate radios. There is a local corporate aircraft, but the neumber of form 5 mission pilots is very low.
So there is no reason for Emergency management/FEMA to consider CAP locally. CAP has nothing to offer

What Wing/Sq. are you in? Is that just a problem in your Sq or your entire wing or group.... Has anything changed since your last post?

[SARMedTech]

It should be noted that CERT and in particular the Medical Reserve Corps does not place non-credentialled people in positions that require extensive training and licensure. As a member of the Medical Reserve Corps, I can tell you that the people you are afraid might be out there doing things they arent trained to do are not actually doing those things. In the MRC there are administrative and medical positions. Administrative go nowhere near SAR, medical assistance,etc. Before folks go bashing an organization, it might be wise to look into it and see what is involved. Besides, as has already been said, after a tornado or hurricane, do you really care if its a secretary or an EMT that pulls you out from under a household appliance. People in CERT and MRC do what they have experience doing after receiving the initial training. MRC doesnt put non-medical folks through medical training due to credentialling and liability issues. Dont worry, CERT is not going to take away anything from CAP. I am an EMT and triage officer with my MRC unit and I can tell you that you wont find a 60 year old retired school teacher out there tagging folks in the rubble of a collapsed building. Besides, its about the mission and the service...there is room in the world for more than just CAP doing SAR and the like.