its worth it... but how to make it stronger?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Correct, you do Es for doing Es, but, it's something a little extra. A few cadets and seniors put it this way once, myself included.

Flight crews have BDUs, they also have badges for their trained specialty.
Ground teams have BDUs, they also have badges for their trained specialty.
flight crews also have flightsuits they can wear. True, they serve a special purpose, but it signifies them as special at the same time.
Ground teams only have BDUs. Why can't we have something that distinguishes us apart as well? We don't need another uniform, BDUs work great in the field, that's Why they Were made, just like flightsuits. How about something for us?

[Luis R. Ramos]

What about a patch for ES and a badge for Ground Teams...?

Oh wait! We have that now!!!

Flyer

[Al Sayre]

The fact that they are not wearing a flight suit sets them apart as well...

[manfredvonrichthofen]

What about a patch for ES and a badge for Ground Teams...?

Oh wait! We have that now!!!

Flyer

Yeah... Nice try on the sarcasm, but read above your last post and when your up to date on the badge discussion, try again.
it's already been stated.

[Garibaldi]

BITD, we had 2 unit patches. One was the usual one, which you got after being a member for 6 months, in good standing, participated in at least 75% of unit activities and so on. We wore it on the right fatigue pocket. The other one, modeled after the Ranger flash, you got for heavy ES and ground team participation. You had certain objectives to accomplish in order to wear it, such as (this was the 70s-80s, keep in mind) rappel down a 750' cliff (which I did with a broken arm), navigate 3,000 meters and come out within 50 meters of your objective, rappel down a 250' sinkhole and ascend, and various other SAR things we did. Only one person that I know of nailed it on their first shot. The land nav was the real killer. You were dropped off at a predetermined location, given a map and compass, and told "have at it. Your objective is marked on the map. Call us when you get lost". Not if. When. We had PRC-77 backpack radios then so commo in the north Georgia mountains was a bit easier.

I'm thinking that beyond the GT badge, we should have something marking us as actual GT members on a fixed team. The only problem I see with that is being able to participate in every mission or training due to personal life and commitments. Like, you serve on the team for at least 6 months, participate in 75% of actual or practice missions, keep up with your regular cadet life (promotions,etc) and so on. I most certainly will not make people do a 3K navigation course and obviously we can't rappel and such on a regular basis. I don't even want to make SARTECH a requirement. I like SARTECH as an elective but I don't see us using it as part of our "everyday" mission.

Thoughts?

[arajca]

BITD, we had 2 unit patches. One was the usual one, which you got after being a member for 6 months, in good standing, I'm thinking that beyond the GT badge, we should have something marking us as actual GT members on a fixed team. The only problem I see with that is being able to participate in every mission or training due to personal life and commitments. Like, you serve on the team for at least 6 months, participate in 75% of actual or practice missions, keep up with your regular cadet life (promotions,etc) and so on. I most certainly will not make people do a 3K navigation course and obviously we can't rappel and such on a regular basis. I don't even want to make SARTECH a requirement. I like SARTECH as an elective but I don't see us using it as part of our "everyday" mission.

Thoughts?

How many "fixed teams" are there in a particular wing? How do you define a "fixed team"? How many real missions does a wing have for ground teams? Why treat GTs different than aircrew? There is no requirement for aircrew to be on a "fixed crew". There is no designator for someone who is currently qualified as aircrew vs someone who is not current.

[Garibaldi]

BITD, we had 2 unit patches. One was the usual one, which you got after being a member for 6 months, in good standing, I'm thinking that beyond the GT badge, we should have something marking us as actual GT members on a fixed team. The only problem I see with that is being able to participate in every mission or training due to personal life and commitments. Like, you serve on the team for at least 6 months, participate in 75% of actual or practice missions, keep up with your regular cadet life (promotions,etc) and so on. I most certainly will not make people do a 3K navigation course and obviously we can't rappel and such on a regular basis. I don't even want to make SARTECH a requirement. I like SARTECH as an elective but I don't see us using it as part of our "everyday" mission.

Thoughts?

How many "fixed teams" are there in a particular wing? How do you define a "fixed team"? How many real missions does a wing have for ground teams? Why treat GTs different than aircrew? There is no requirement for aircrew to be on a "fixed crew". There is no designator for someone who is currently qualified as aircrew vs someone who is not current.

Fixed team meaning a core of about 12 people, 1/3 to 1/2 that can be counted on to respond from that pool.
GTs get in a van, spend several hours driving around and sometimes live in the woods. Aircrews fly out, get their job done and fly back. I'm not saying one is any more important than the other. If aircrews want this sort of program, fine.
A 101 card spells out current vs. not current pretty well, doesn't it? If you're not current in MS, MO or MP, you don't get in an airplane to fly a mission until you're current. Same with GT. On a mission you don't have time to train. Save that for local training and SAREXes 
As far as how many real missions? I don't believe I said only real missions, but actual and practice. In my 7 years active in GT in ARWG, I have been called out to 1 actual mission and put on standby for another. In Wisconsin(7 more years), I went on 7 actual callouts. Varies by state.
No, there is no requirement for a "fixed" crew, either air or ground. But it'd be nice to draw from a pool first then go to alternates.

I'm not saying it's a perfect plan. Actual mission participation varies by state, obviously. And not everyone will want to do something like this. It's just a thought.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Manfred-

Yes, that is specifically the one I was responding. The one above my last post.

There is no need for "something extra" as the fact that you are not a GT member, you do not wear the badge. If you are not ES qualified, you do not wear the patch. That sets us apart. Nothing more is needed.

Remember there are Mission Pilots and Transport Pilots. Although I am not air qualified, it is my understanding that Transport Pilots do not participate in missions other than moving aircraft. And isn't there a qualification of glider pilot only?

If aircrew would follow your suggestion, then we may get sage green overall for mission pilots, red overalls for glider pilots, and blue overalls for transport pilots. 

A little extreme, in my opinion...

Luis Ramos

[manfredvonrichthofen]

We couldn't go with blue for transport pilots, blue is already used, but maybe gray, or possibly almost aqua marine...

I have suggested nothing of the sort. Otherwise there would be one type of hat for ground teams and another for UDF teams.
But I guess it is rediculous that the Air Force uses different headgear for different specialties, and let's not get started on all the different headgear in the Army, there's (between the Army and AF) red hats, black berets, black hats, maroon berets, tan berets, tan hats, green berets, steel berets (though not seen like ever), blue berets, and the list continues. Not to mention all the different cords, so many cords.

Asking for one different headgear isn't asking much at all, and it's completely optional, if you don't want one, don't wear one.

[Stonewall]

The following three posts were copy and pasted from something I posted in a similar thread almost 5 years ago....

Here's something else I found.  When I became the WING GSAR Officer, it was one of those many "downs" that we've all experienced in our careers in CAP.  I know this stuff is old to some of you, but I think it can be used with a few modifications to fit today's missions as well as your local unit.

Use it or not, I'm throwing it out there.
---------------------------------------------------


MEMORANDUM FOR WING DIRECTOR OF EMERGENCY SERVICES

Date: 17 DEC 01

Subject:  Proposals and ideas for the National Capital Wing Emergency Services Department, Ground Operations Branch.

In the 9 years that I've been operating as a ground team leader in National Capital Wing I've seen the wing's program fluctuate in quality.  In the past 3 years however, I've seen the quality of training and ground operations fall to an all-time low.  I believe this to be due to a lack of continuity in training and standards; sub-standard turn around time of 101 cards; lack of desire for more than one person to perform the duties; and most importantly the drive and motivation to get things rolling to a fully operational level.

My goal as wing Ground Search and Rescue Officer is to work closely with and communicate regularly with the Wing ES Officer and other ES support staff while maintaining a constant dialogue with ES representatives at the squadrons that comprise the National Capital Wing.  More importantly, I want to instill a desire from within the squadrons, especially the cadets, to participate in all training offered at the wing level and above.  In my experience, the number one reason for lack of participation is finding willing seniors to transport and participate in ground operations with cadets, and the lack of dissemination of information regarding training opportunities.

New standards have been set for CAP nationwide, many of which I am not yet familiar with.  From what I have read already, it's obvious that the new program is not more difficult, but more detailed, mostly from a paperwork/signing off standpoint.  I believe that if we push the standards out to the user and inform them of these standards and that they are achievable; we can increase our ground operations capabilities and readiness.

Below is a list of ideas and proposals with a brief description of each.  While I realize these items can't happen overnight, if at all, I would simply ask for your support and constructive criticism of these ideas.

1.  Offer one training exercise each month to include certain annual missions that have been taking place for many years like TACCOMEX and the Wing Mountain Mission while substituting a wing mission for MER SAR College.  Each mission will focus on a certain theme like Electronic Search, Lost Person Search, Urban Operations, Air/Ground Coordination, Classroom training, and others.  Each training exercise will be very well planned and an Operations Order (OPORD) issued to all squadrons not later than one-month prior.

2.  Create a list of qualified Ground Team Leaders (GTL) from the entire wing and have a call-out roster that we can use to contact them during actual missions.  We can also use this list to send electronic correspondence regularly to advertise training opportunities and other ES related information, thus putting the information in the hand of the end-user.

3.  Have two Ground Operations staging areas, one in VA and one in MD/DC.  By this I mean having a fully capable and supplied wing vehicle based at Davison AAF, Bolling, or Andrews so a ground team, regardless of squadron, can rally at those sites.  If a call went out for a ground team to form and squadrons were notified, qualified ground team members could simply link up at one of these staging areas to find a GTL waiting for them.  Additionally, Mission Base can be set up accordingly from these positions.  Right now, to my knowledge, there are only two squadrons that may be able to deploy a fully functional and qualified ground team.

4.  Offer first aid training/qualifications 3 to 4 times a year and get at least 2 people qualified to teach and certify CAP members in Standard First Aid/CPR.  Instructor courses are offered at Ft. Belvoir and other local ARC locations throughout our area. 

5.  Acquire a second wing Directional Finder for use by ground teams.   Few squadrons possess L'Pers for their ground team, or if they do they don't work.  Again, this would be a part of staging a mission ready vehicle in a designated location.

6.  I would like a cadet to assist me with my duties at the wing level.  Someone who can act as a cadet commander or C/OIC of training activities where cadets are involved.  Preferably a cadet officer who is GTM qualified should hold this position.  This individual can also sit with the CAC during their regular meetings.

7.  Promote the purchasing and use of NEXTEL cell phones.  Many members have cell phones and some have Nextel.  By no means am I suggesting making them mandatory or requiring them, but simply recommend them to people who would otherwise have a cellular phone.  The benefit of having a Nextel phone is the ability to send text messages via the internet so as to call out a ground team, and there is the direct connect feature for use like a hand-held radio.  Regardless, compiling a list of cellular and pager numbers can increase our communications capability.  This list should include NEXTEL direct connect ID numbers.

8.  Create an ES specific web site that is either linked to the wing site or maintained by ES staff separately.  The site can have Operations Orders (OPORD) for future missions, downloadable wing specific ES related forms, an ES photo gallery, and a means for squadron personnel to get current data regarding ES operations and activities.  Additionally, I would like to develop and maintain a list of e-mail addresses throughout the wing of anyone who is interested in receiving pertinent information about wing ES operations.

9.  Simplify the 101 application process for members requesting specialty ratings in GES, GTM, and GTL.  All too often cadets and seniors are precluded from participating in ES activities because they don't have an ES card although they've completed all the requirements.  Air Operations personnel require a lot more scrutiny for their qualifications, but the first three levels in ground ops is quite simple; do the task, take the test, be a member.  Applications should not be turned away for not having a photocopy of their CAP ID; we can find that in our own system.  Instead of returning the paperwork because it's not legible, call the individual and clear the mistake up. 

10.  Equipment, regardless of squadron ownership, needs to be mission ready at all times.  This includes vehicles with adequate fuel, DFs and radios with batteries, and stocked first aid supplies.  I'd like to develop a quality control system that is simple and maintained by the squadron, perhaps even a cadet ES representative.

11.  Conduct joint-wing training exercises with units from VA, MD, and other units outside DC wing wishing to coordinate such an effort.  Additionally, training should be conducted on a limited basis with other SAR organizations within our local boundaries.  It's a realistic possibility to work with other wings and organizations when called to a real world search and we should train accordingly.

I certainly don't expect to launch these ideas immediately, but rather gradually as we enter into the New Year and of course with the blessing of senior ES and Wing staff.  Naturally, I would also solicit ideas from other ground operators throughout the wing, especially those at the squadron who may be as eager as we are to  hit the ground running.



STONEWALL, Major, CAP
Ground Search and Rescue Officer

[Stonewall]

I just found this, a list of ES equipment for our squadron van.  Heck, make it a weekend event.  Get all the vans together in your group and wash/wax them, do a major PMCS on them, and standardize them.  So when Lt Col Tentpeg from Hooah Cadet Squadron shows up to drive the Gung Ho Composite Squadron's van, he doesn't have to worry that one van's equipment is different from another.  It can be tricky, difficult, and sometimes futile, but if can work, it works great.

Van Equipment List

Van ES Box (Rubbermaid container)
-Search Light AC adapter
-Orange Vests (15)
-Maglite flashlight
-Extra fuses
-1 roll of 100 mph tape
-Clipboard with notepad and pen
-Wool blanket
-Flares
-Jumper cable, tow straps, reflectors, etc.
-First aid kit (not to be used as GT medic kit)
-Large trash bags
-Window cleaner and paper towels


Communications Kit (small tool box)
-2 Icom HT radios
-2 DC chargers/power source
-3 AA batter packs
-Spare Batteries (new), enough to run three radios (AA, D cell and 9v)
-Electrical tape
-Spare parts
-Assorted tools (hammer, screwdrivers, pliers, saw, etc)

DF Kit
-L'per
-Magmount DF antennas
-Jet Stream

Van Map/Forms/Manual Case
- Emergency Service Forms/Manuals
-Contact information for emergency service organizations
-Wing contact information
-Van incident report form (Van Notebook)
-Regional Maps
   ~ADC Regional Metropolitan DC
   ~Regional Northern Virginia
-State Maps
   ~Virginia
   ~Maryland
   ~Pennsylvania
   ~West Virginia
-State and National Parks
-Virginia and Maryland Gazetteer map (it's a topographic atlas of Virginia and is set up to use GPS) 
-Virginia and Maryland Airport Information Guide

Miscellaneous Van Equipment
-5 gal water canister
-Jack and wheel change equipment
-Litter

[Stonewall]

I think it's relatively easy to plan a 6 month or even a yearly training calendar.  But that's just me.  Remember to delegate, advise and supervise.

Start off a FY:

10/07:  Air/Ground Communications Exercise.  Ground and Air teams operate with the sole purpose of communicating via voice and non-voice signals over long distances (non-urban).  Signal panels, vectoring, signal mirrors, natural signals, and so on.

11/07:  Mountain Training, or whatever your specific terrain is in your area.  Ground and Air teams can either work together or separate on this, but it's always best to have them work together.  Combine ELT and Missing Person search as part of this excercise.  Never hurts to have simultaneous tasks assigned as well.

12/07:  Winter Specific Training.  Train for SAR in the winter-like conditions for your area.  Concentrate on cold weather equipment and conducting missions while under adverse (cold) conditions.  Good time to throw in a quality C.O.L.D. survival class (COLD is an acronym, know what it is?)

01/08:  Bring in the new year with an ES classroom weekend.  That's right, an all inclusive GTM/GTL, GES, ROA, First Aid/CPR, training weekend.  Hold a ground school for potential aircrew members.  Make it a CAP ES 101 Intro.  Only requirement is that seniors have Level I and Cadets have their 1st stripe.

02/08:  Flip Flop time.  Huh?  Come on, didn't I say to be creative in another thread.  This is where all the ground pounding ninjas get some aircrew orientation.  How can you be a good GTL/GTM if  you have no experience with what the aircrews you're working with are doing 1200 ft above you?  Same goes for the hangar talkers.  They need to spend a day in the woodline picking bugs off you and seeing why it's so darn hard to set up some signal panels at a moments notice.  Be creative.

03/08:  Disaster Relief Time.  Come on, everyone's favorite training.  Simulated flood readings at multiple bridges.  Time to fill some sandbags and do some damage assessments.  You'll be shutting off lots of ELTs at airfields and basins if you live near water.  It's not fun, but it is necessary.

04/08:  SAR Eval Train up.  This is where you hone your skills, get all your paperwork in order, do gear inspections, check credentials and make sure everyone knows their job.  Throw some simple DF sorties out there, a missing person scenario, and maybe a few DR sorties.  I've had AF evaluators sitting at a "clue" out in middle of the woods just to see our reaction when we found it.  ACTIONS AT A CLUE!  What do you do?

05/08:  SAR Eval.  Pucker time.  How often are SAR Evals anyway?  Once a year?  Once every two years?  Seems like we had them all the time for some reason.  Anyway, you gotta plan for that big one.

06/08:  Ground Team Skills Training.  This is where scenarios aren't called for, but rather have the GTLs and other advanced ground gods spend quality time with their padawan learners, teaching the ropes.  No, actually teaching the ROPES.  Honing basic land nav skills.  Taking what they learned in January and making sure it stuck in their thick skulls.  Check their gear, make sure they have things dummy corded to themselves.  At NGSAR in '99 by the time it was over, I had a collection of like 12 leathermans, among other gear.  Why?  Because people didn't believe they'd lose their gear.  Anyway, go down the Mission Essential Task List (METL), master basic skills.  It's a round robin learning weekend.  Hands on for everyone.

07/08:  uh oh, Encampment and NCSA time.  You gonna have an FTX or ES weekend in July?  What about August when everyone whose anyone is at NESA, Hawk or if they're real men (or women), PJOC...  It's up to you, but you may find yourself rubbing two sticks together alone in the field.

08/08:  Same as 07/08.  Seriously, plan it and they will come.  It's a good time for water safety (drown proofing) and water familiarization training.  Teach the blokes how to make a flotation device out of their BDU pants, but make sure they know to wear underwear before hand.  Have a life guard go over some basic water safety/rescue techniques.  Not because we're swift water rescue rats, but because we may need to save one of our own non-swimming dudes... Remember, "throw, tow, row, then go".

09/08:  Last month in FY 08, what do you do?.  Another Commo Exercise.  Work those radios and have those aircrews direct the GTs where to do, either in a van or on land, but usually both.  It's long hard work, and doing it just once a year ain't gonna cut the mustard.

I threw 12 things out there, well, 10 or 11 in a matter of minutes.  Brainstorm with some gung-ho hooah types who know what they're doing.  Identify 10 to 12 basic scenarios and goals, then task'em out.  You take 2 or 3 FTXs since you're the Group ES God, and have some other commandos work on the others.  Don't forget to advertise your plan.  Nothing sux worse than getting word about some high speed save the world training 5 days before it happens.  I never put out an OPORD later than 1 month in advance.  And up to 6 months prior the whole wing would have dates (in stone) that an ES training activity was happening. 

And don't just do it yourself.  Like I say, delegate!  You can be the project officer but have some squared away cadet be your scenario guy.  Have a leader's recon of the training site a few weeks in advance, then a week in advance, then a few days in advance.  Don't show up 0700 Saturday morning rushing to find a place to hide an ELT that you didn't PMCS, only to find the battery is 10-7.

Hooah?  Hooah!

[Garibaldi]

When I rejoined in February, our unit was totally lacking in any sort of regimented GT training. The CC, knowing my background, asked me to do what I could to reignite the GT. I immediately began work.

Once a month, GT training. Usually, we do UDF and GTM3 stuff from the SQTR and task guide. We were able to use the Wing Consolidated SAREX number for training and signing off of tasks. If there was interest, we tackled the more complex tasks for GTM2. In October, we will have several qualified in GTM1, including me. I also hope to have 2 more qualified GTLs out of the deal and perhaps a couple of the recently-turned 18 year olds as GTL trainees.

In January or February, we will be reinstating our ground team academy. In past years, we turned general ES into fully qualified GTM1 in 2 weekends, as well as a few GTLs.

We began laying groundwork for aircrew/GT coordination. the OPS officer has some great ideas to make working between crews effective and fun.

We sent 2 or 3 cadets to a SARTECH course right before I rejoined. I hope to have a couple more by same time 2013.

Training, training, training. Making it fun and productive for the cadets as well as interesting. Having something else to do besides drill and formations. That's what our key was in getting all this done.

[ol'fido]

BITD, we had 2 unit patches. One was the usual one, which you got after being a member for 6 months, in good standing, I'm thinking that beyond the GT badge, we should have something marking us as actual GT members on a fixed team. The only problem I see with that is being able to participate in every mission or training due to personal life and commitments. Like, you serve on the team for at least 6 months, participate in 75% of actual or practice missions, keep up with your regular cadet life (promotions,etc) and so on. I most certainly will not make people do a 3K navigation course and obviously we can't rappel and such on a regular basis. I don't even want to make SARTECH a requirement. I like SARTECH as an elective but I don't see us using it as part of our "everyday" mission.

Thoughts?

How many "fixed teams" are there in a particular wing? How do you define a "fixed team"? How many real missions does a wing have for ground teams? Why treat GTs different than aircrew? There is no requirement for aircrew to be on a "fixed crew". There is no designator for someone who is currently qualified as aircrew vs someone who is not current.

The problem with not having fixed teams is simple: If you don't have a "fixed" team, you have a bunch of sort of similiarly trained INDIVIDUALS driving around in the same van. Nobody knows anybody beyond maybe a  passing nod and it turns into the usual "charlie foxtrot". When you have a real TEAM that works together regularly, they know each other's strengths and weaknesses.  They are used to working as a cohesive unit. You can put five Navy SEALs on a team and they will probably do alright. Put five SEALs on a team and let them train and work together for months or years and they will be awesome.

It's the same thing with the "BLING". We already recognize the individual with a GT badge and an ES patch. But the objective here is to recognize the team. To use the SEAL example again, all the SEALs wear the "Budweiser" but the individual teams still have their own patches to set them apart. Even SEAL platoons have their own patches in some cases. The purpose in this case is not to give out more bling, it is to build unit cohesion and hopefully motivate individuals who want to be a part of the camaraderie that the patch or whatever represents.

[Stonewall]

You can put five Navy SEALs on a team and they will probably do alright. Put five SEALs on a team and let them train and work together for months or years and they will be awesome.

I like what you said here, Randy, and I agree.  But sometimes, even a lot of times, as you know, you take what you can get in CAP, at 0300.

We did our best to have at least 3 GTLs and a handful of GTMs trained to the max so it was as balanced as possible for those middle of the night call outs.

See attached roster, edited for PERSEC of course.

[ol'fido]

Yep, sometimes the best you can do is the best you can do. We had a group like that at my old squadron for many years. Sadly, that is all done now. But I listen to people who don't know what it was like for us dismiss what we did and crow about how everything is so much better now. Then I watch them go out and prove that it isn't. They don't even have a clue that they don't have a clue. Sometimes, I just get tired of banging my head on the wall and dealing with people who aspire to what I think is mediocrity.

[Private Investigator]

But I guess it is rediculous that the Air Force uses different headgear for different specialties, and let's not get started on all the different headgear in the Army, there's (between the Army and AF) red hats, black berets, black hats, maroon berets, tan berets, tan hats, green berets, steel berets (though not seen like ever), blue berets, and the list continues. Not to mention all the different cords, so many cords.

Asking for one different headgear isn't asking much at all, and it's completely optional, if you don't want one, don't wear one.

The difference between Active Duty camaraderie and CAP camaraderie is at times big and other times very similar. In the Marines, everyone is a Marine. In the Army and AF some are rangers, others are paratroopers, people are security police, cooks, DELTA, mechanics, forward observers, etc, etc. Very elitist indeed. CAP should just be CAP.