Communications Technician rating qualification?

[dman12323]

I have alotta questions so I will just go ahead and ask them all.What do you need to wear the Communications Technician rating patch?And is there some kind of class you have to take or testing to obtain this patch?And what rank do you have to be?Thanks!

[Eclipse]

There is an entire curriculum, not to mention the requirement that you be approved by your commander.

See this pamphlet for a start: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/u_082503084959.pdf

[dman12323]

So I would basically have to talk to my commander about it,and get my CAP Form 76 radio permit and pass the test and course basically?

[arajca]

Talk to you unit communications officer about it. They'll know (or should know) what it takes. There is more to it than taking tests or courses.

[Eclipse]

The radio op card is probably the smallest piece of the requirements.

[RADIOMAN015]

There is an entire curriculum, not to mention the requirement that you be approved by your commander.

See this pamphlet for a start: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/u_082503084959.pdf

Go to the cap ntc restricted site and take a look at the proposed radio communications officer training.  It's been VERY slow (shall we say stopped) regarding implementation.   Even under the current setup you might not be able to achieve 25% check in on nets, because there may not be any nets in your neck of the woods.  Since implementation of the new technical standards, the overall VHF radio communications system is highly leveraged and is dependent upon repeaters remaining operational OR aircraft being able to fly as high bird relays, OR having adequate cellphone coverage (which is probably are primary comm method, with portable used for ground to air comms).
RM

[arajca]

If there are no nets, that requirement is really easy to meet.

25% of zero is zero.

Actually, I fell into that category only because for me to check into the nets, I'd have to drive 45 mins. [darn] mountains. Since moving up the comm food chain, I have access to systems that let me check in regularly and serve as NCS.

[dman12323]

Im not sure im going to get approval by my commander,there is only 1 ES "certified" basic cadet in our squadron.And im the only 1 interested in communications.Dont know,Ill check tomorrow...

[IceNine]

Do your homework and be prepared to answer questions.

If you can tell your commander exactly what you need from him/her and exactly what you need to do to achieve your goal you will be much better off.

Walking in and saying "I want to do comm's, will you let me?" will probably not get the job done.

[dman12323]

I was also wondering from his response.What is a POC?Thanks!

[Eclipse]

I was also wondering from his response.What is a POC?Thanks!

Generally refers to "Point Of Contact".

"Who's the POC on that airplane?"

"Who's the POC on the van?"

[dman12323]

ok,one more question he asked if I had: Do you have a POC to help conduct all this training? This means I need someone to contact for the training basically?

[Eclipse]

Who is asking that?  I'm not clear on the context.

[dman12323]

The commander is asking that

[arajca]

1. Does your unit have a Communications Officer?

2. If not, does your wing have groups? If so, ask your commander for permission to discuss this with the group Communications Officer.

3. If your wing does not have groups, ask your commander for permission to discuss this with the wing communications staff. They WILL have the answers you seek.

The reason I say "ask you commander for permission" is because he will NOT appreciate it if the group or wing comm folks (or commander) come down to him and ask why one of his cadets is bothering them. If he knows you are going to contact them, he may give them a heads up so they'll be expecting your call.

[Eclipse]

The commander is asking that

Your commander is asking you if you have a POC for this?

[dman12323]

The commander is asking that

Your commander is asking you if you have a POC for this?

yes,the commander is asking if I have a POC for this.

[JoeTomasone]

The commander is asking that

Your commander is asking you if you have a POC for this?

yes,the commander is asking if I have a POC for this.

I would think that the proper response would be, "Sir, my understanding is that the proper POC is the Squadron Communications Officer."

That puts the ball squarely in his court - where it should be.   You should not have to arrange for your own training.

[dman12323]

Unfortunately my sqdn does not have a communications officer.Therefore,I guess i dont have a POC.Or go up to the wing groups.

[dman12323]

So I guess,I should tell him.I dont have a POC at this time.

[dman12323]

1. Does your unit have a Communications Officer?

2. If not, does your wing have groups? If so, ask your commander for permission to discuss this with the group Communications Officer.

3. If your wing does not have groups, ask your commander for permission to discuss this with the wing communications staff. They WILL have the answers you seek.

The reason I say "ask you commander for permission" is because he will NOT appreciate it if the group or wing comm folks (or commander) come down to him and ask why one of his cadets is bothering them. If he knows you are going to contact them, he may give them a heads up so they'll be expecting your call.

Sorry for the triple post and thanks for the answer.Wing doesn't have a communications officer,and according to here:" http://www.azwg.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=39&Itemid=111 " the Arizona wing does not have a communications group.The last thing is asking if I can speak with the wing communications staff.So I will just contact him saying my POC is the Arizona wing communications staff?

[JeffDG]

Sorry for the triple post and thanks for the answer.Wing doesn't have a communications officer,and according to here:" http://www.azwg.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=39&Itemid=111 " the Arizona wing does not have a communications group.The last thing is asking if I can speak with the wing communications staff.So I will just contact him saying my POC is the Arizona wing communications staff?

Might want to try here:  http://www.azwg.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52&Itemid=58
"Communications    Col Gilbert H Day"

[kd8gua]

To me, as both my Squadron's Comm Officer and an aspiring tech rating in Comms., a lot of the requirements and training are not easily accessable to every member. Per CAPP 214, there is a whole slew of items to be done. My wing is no longer issuing physical Radio Operator Authorization cards until the new communications curriculum is created. Since we do not have paper copies, and I was under the impression that it will not show up in eServices, I have no idea whether or not I have an ROA card. I've taken the current BCUT course twice; once with the cadets of my squadron, once with senior members from across the group.

I personally have already taken and passed the online exam, and it is registered in my eServices. Along with that are the large number of various requirements which includes basics like Level 1. However, other activities, such as participation in one mission in any comm capacity is not the easiest thing to do when training missions around here routinely get cancelled or rescheduled to times I can't participate. Other requirements such as sanctioned events by the Wing Director of Comms are impossible, since in one year of being a senior member, we have not had any sanctioned events, unless generic ES training missions qualify under a "sanctioned" event. There are no VHF nets in my part of the state, and I cannot use HF without the ACUT, so I don't even know if there are HF nets in this state, and the wing has only hosted one communications meeting on a Saturday afternoon at wing HQ that they gave one week notice on. I could not make it because I, once again, had something to do that weekend. Any other weekend would have been fine, but inconveniently it appears by blind luck the weekends I plan for activities are the ones CAP suddenly plans something. No one is to blame, it's just bad luck on my part!

However, I could also make the argument that 25% of 0 is 0, so I'm completing my requirement for checking into nets by doing nothing. Unfortunately, that means I am not getting practice on radio usage in CAP, therefore not really learning anything.

And members wonder why no one wants to get involved in communications... Unless you have a 101 card bedazzled with all of the finest in ES qualifications, the average Joe Senior Member is going to have to do a lot more incidental things in GES in order to be around radios enough to actually successfully work on a tech rating in comms.

[arajca]

A physical card is not required IF the wing maintains an accessible roster of those memers who have completed B-CUT and A-CUT. If you completed B-CUT, you have an ROA-B card, even if your wing doesn't use physical cards.

If you are the unit Comm Officer, contact your group comm officer (or wing Director of Communications) for information and advice. Asking questions here can give you general answers, but how these work in your wing depends on your wing.

Keep in mind the Tech rating in Comms is separate from the ES comm qualifications.

[kd8gua]

I completely understand that Comm and ES are separate ratings. My point with that topic was that, at least in my area of the wing, one would have to be more heavily involved within GES than I am. Currently I just have the GES on my 101 card, and that was carried over from when I was a cadet and took the old online tests. I haven't been able to make it to a practice mission yet, mainly because of scheduling issues on my part, and inclement weather forcing reschedules or cancellations on the wing's part. I would go on a real-life mission, however, without being UDF or GT trained yet, I'm really of little use during an actual mission. Around here most missions are ELT searches, and those are fairly mobile and aerial and don't normally have a formal "mission base." The VHF radio in the van is usually sufficient in coverage to contact our IC, who often can run these ELT searches from his home, where he has several computers and radios.

The last time I checked my Group's website, we do not have a Comm Officer, so I will have to check with the Wing Comm. Officer. However, at the comms. meeting I could not attend, my squadron CC did attend. He asked how comms. tech rating senior members are supposed to complete requirements when many of the requirements cannot be completed due to the lack of available training. The answer he received was not very clear, and basically amounted to "It's their responsibility to figure it out." I've never personally met the wing comms. staffers, however they seem to be extremely knowledgeable about radio equipment and procedures, but seem to lack the ability to train others. I've been to other courses, such as TLC and SLS. Each time, I've met at least one other "newbie" senior member in the same boat: Signed up for a Communications Tech Rating, usually because they are Hams like myself, or just have a general interest in radios or electronics, and cannot complete the requirements in a timely fashion. The two biggest complaints are lack of nets and lack of training exercises.

"Older" members, already with tech ratings or higher in comms. take it upon themselves to teach the BCUT class as often as possible, mainly to get cadets and seniors the ability to use the radio if need be. However without clear training there does not seem to be much more that can be done. Since I've been in, there hasn't been a single ACUT course offered in this wing. f I find one in a neighboring state over the summer, I may just take it elsewhere, though I'm not clear on regs if I can do that or not.

[Spaceman3750]

Why not organize your own VHF nets? That would at least be a start. Don't expect group or wing to spoon feed you training. Organize your comm program and ask for specific assistance for what is beyond your capabilities.

[arajca]

You can schedule an A-CUT class. Find out who can teach it, get one of them on board, set a date and location, and have at it. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to have completed A-CUT to host a class, just to teach it.

As for nets, does your unit have any ISR's? If so, you can set up ISR nets, if you can't set up VHF nets. Also, you can find out who has VHF radios with in range of your local CAP repeater and set up a net that way. You should be able to find a few folks to share the NCS role with. Plus, conducting nets is a requirement for the Senior rating.

[smithwr2]

I've been in for 2 years and I agree that it is difficult to make progress in this specialty of Communications. 

Part of the reason for this difficulty is there are many hurdles that require costly travel and time commitments.  For example, attending a communication meeting, and participating in a Wing ComEx, and doing comm work for a mission/SAREX.   In my case the only option to meet these requirements involved out-of-pocket conerence fees, hotel rooms, restaurant meals, and time away from home.  And many other requirements, such as the CAP Form 43 Test (now online), net checkin recordkeeping, CAP Radio Operators Permit, etc. 

I managed to get these behind me though after two years of effort and a fairly active Wing.  But what has me completely hung up is the requirement for the CAP Form 119, Radio Operators Test.  This Form does not even exist anymore, is listed as obsolete, and there's no guidance I can find on Knowledgebase.  If you Google it, you get some hints that CAPF119 might have been been linked to completing the ACUT.  Some wings don't even offer the ACUT anymore thanks to anticipating the new and improved ICUT rating.  Maybe ICUT satisfies the requirement, maybe net...using ICUT in place of ACUT in place of CAPF 119 is at least two leaps in the whisper game to complete the the CAP Form 119 described in CAPP 214.  And when was it ICUT arrives?

And all this deals with just the Technician Rating level.

For myself I might try to see this rating through the Technician level simply because of the investment so far, but if I were to do it again I would not choose the Communications Speciality to satisfy CAP professional development requirements.  There's less pain in other specialties.

Randy Smith
CAP 1Lt
Bellingham Composite Squadron

[SarDragon]

CAPF 119 is available on the NTC site, and is no longer an item under the purview of the Testing Officer. It is still required to complete qualification for the ACUT. I'm a comm instructor, and have been active in that capacity for about nine years.

IMHO, ICUT is still vaporware. There has been too much going on in the repeater replacement project for much time to be spent on ICUT.

[argentip]

I'll second what Dave said here.  The CAPT 119 has now become the ACUT Questionnaire.  This will further be replaced by the testing within the ICUT once that is released.  Therefore, in CAPP 214, you can disregard CAPT 119 and replace it with the Questionnaire.  Your Wing DC has access to the Questionnaire.  You will need to complete this test to satisfy the requirements for issuance of a call sign, as well as the Technician Rating.

[smithwr2]

If only ICUT *was* vaporware.  Here in Washington Wing ICUT is a reality and is the only option.   The ACUT classes/tests required under CAPP214 are not offered.   The WAWing version of ICUT requires an in-class instruction day.  There is no online ICUT.  ICUT is our current requirement for initial and re-qualification to use CAP radios.  There is no BCUT nor ACUT being issued in WAWing. 

So it would be great to be able to take the ACUT Questionnaire and wrap up Level 2, if only the ACUT Questionnaire existed for us.  Instead we have to either travel to a site location for a day of ICUT, or wait for a special ICUT instructor to visit our neighborhood for the day of instruction. 

I would not be surprised if all CAP members will eventually have to take an in-class ICUT to remain qualified.  Maybe there is a reason for the 2+ year delay in launching the online ICUT.

Anyone want to place a bet?


Randy Smith
CAP 1Lt
Bellingham Composite Squadron

[kd8gua]

I am still sharing in the pain of a confused Comm program! My wing had a Communications exercise back in December, and gave only few hours notice and scheduled it on a weekday sometime between 1000 and 2000. This is fantastic that they scheduled an exercise for once, however, I was working 2nd shift that afternoon, 1100-1930, and also do not have access to a CAP radio since I cannot be assigned one since I have only completed BCUT. If I were given more advanced warning I could have probably either taken the day off or asked the Squadron CC if I could borrow a handheld for the day to participate.

It appears that at least my wing's Comm guys like to do things at the last minute, and while that is great to prepare people for doing real-life missions that may pop up, it's also a hinderence to those who have busy work/school schedules who are just trying to get their feet wet in a program. If you give enough of an advanced notice that "Hey, we're having a Comm exercise on X day." Or "Comm meeting at Wing HQ on X." and have the notices for training go out more than 12 hours before the event and have notices for meetings go out longer than a week ahead, a lot more people could be involved.

We had a Cadet Program wing-wide event, and I was talking to people from other parts of the state, and a few squadrons in the far northeastern part of the state put on BCUT and ACUT classes for their own squadron, and open the training to their respective group, but not the wing, under the assumption that Comm training is plentiful (this corner of the state also has weekly VHF nets, but being mid-week, with work and other obligations, I cannot drive 6 hours round-trip to participate in a weekly net). So hopefully I will have been able to get this particular squadron to open their Comm training up to all members of the wing! That will be one hurdle to clear.

[arajca]

The reason the real I-CUT has been delayed is a change of the volunteer staff developing it and too many other Comm projects that have a higher national priority (repeaters, narrowband, etc). Not so they can develop a mandatory classroom training program. If that were the goal, it'd be done and out by now. A major part is getting good quality video instruction and post production to create a usuable training program. Additionally, the program had to be redeveloped when they realized Blackboard was too expensive to run it on. That required purchasing a dedicated server and using a new online instructional program.

That being said, I have been telling folks in my wing to forget about I-CUT. As far as I can see, it isn't coming out anytime in the foreseeable future.

Per CAPR 100-1, Communications Exercises can only give 12 hour notice. Unlike a SAREX, we cannot tell everyone three month ahead of time. As for wing comm doing stuff at the last minute, that's how WE often get it. If you want to host a communicators' meeting, contact your wing comm staff to see what is needed. I get lots of complaints about no training, but few of the complainers are willing to host the training.

[HGjunkie]

Ever since I heard about this ICUT thing at my encampment BCUT class this winter, it seems like it'll be akin to revising 39-1: Low priority and under-staffed.

[Moonfly]

Thanks for the thread, guys.  I volunteered to assist my Squadron because my son is climbing the cadet ranks.  They sent me an Asst. Comm duty, and told me to figure out what it means.  I'm a little less in the dark.  I've a better idea what's coming after reading comments here.

I gather the Tech Rating means you ought to be able to set up comm for an exercise such as SAREX or training class.  In other words, you now know what CAP has and where to use it.  Is this a fair assessment?

[arajca]

Not quite. Setting up the equipment is Communications Unit Leader duty, not a unit comm. officer. Read CAPP 214 for more details. The unit comm officer (and most higher levels as well) is becoming more of a system manager than a technician.

Get your wing comm plans. Contact your group (if your wing has them) communications officer and/or wing Director of Communications for help and more specific information.

[Moonfly]

Thanks.  Might have found ACUT/BCUT training in neighbor squadron.  Wing plans a training session in February.  Plenty of room around here for a bit of huntin' and peckin', and some initiative for those with time on their hands.  If I understand the readings I've covered so far, the Comm Unit Leader is part of Emergency Services.

[argentip]

Thanks.  Might have found ACUT/BCUT training in neighbor squadron.  Wing plans a training session in February.  Plenty If I understand the readings I've covered so far, the Comm Unit Leader is part of Emergency Services.

That is correct.  The CUL is the member responsible for setting up Communications and drafting the Communications Plan for ES operations.  You need to start with Mission Radio Operator (MRO) and then you can proceed to CUL.  To find out what each qualification requires, take a look at the SQTRs in eServices.

As for the Tech Rating, Take a look at CAPP 214.  It will tell you what you should be able to do after achieving each rating, along with what skills you need to possess and/or demostrate to receive the rating.

Just remember, MRO/CUL and the Tech Rating are two separate programs.