CAP helping bust up keg parties?

[WheelsUp]

Excerpted from a story today in the Idaho Statesman http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/07/95454/buzzkill-police-use-planes-to.html

...The pilots with the Civil Air Patrol flew over the Foothills area to the north and the desert south of Ada County {Idaho}, where they were able to spot tell tale signs of keg parties, like fires or large amounts of cars parked miles off established roads in the desert or Foothills rural, Galloway said. The planes helped law enforcement cover about 1,000 square miles of rural, desert, and Foothills areas....

Does this cross the line from passive to active assistance with law enforcement? Sure, we do CD surveillance missions for ongoing illegal activity, but this is for a single-night event. It seems the same to me as NG or Army helicopters being called out for "Operation Teen Kegger," and I am concerned it puts a toe over the line. Doesn't the local Sheriff have other options for aerial surveillance?

Am interested to see what others have to say.

[davidsinn]

I say go for it. This is a bigger problem than Mary Jane. Give the cops the help they need.

[WheelsUp]

I'm certainly not taking away from the problems that activity presents, particularly young drivers under the influence, but having a military auxiliary force working a non-federal crime issue?

It just does not sit well with me. I'm no lawyer, so perhaps my understanding of the applicable laws and regulations governing CAP do's and don'ts is a bit lacking, but it doesn't add up in my book.

[RiverAux]

Well, though not keg related, there are other instances of CAP assisting state and local LE on non-drug issues.  The key thing is recon only.  Flying over and reporting a suspected problem is okay, but circling it and conducting surveillence is another.  We can guarantee that it was approved by NHQ (unlike the old days when the Wing Kings had a lot of leeway), so officially this must be an okay mission so far as the regulations go.

Now, is it an okay mission in principle?  Probably, but I think it would be nice to have some more specific CAP doctrine on such LE support activities than what we have in the regs at the moment. 

[lordmonar]

Let's also take the stance that the reporter may have his facts mixed up.

It may have been that during a CD mission CAP reported unusual acitivity that the police followed up on and found them to be keg parties.

As opposed to CAP out flying around looking for Keg Parties.

Just saying. 

[RiverAux]

Very possible, but as I said I do know that approvals for missions not greatly different than that have been given.  Since we've gone to NHQ approval for all missions I have noted that it has actually gotten easier to get approval for LE support missions that might be "iffy" since NHQ is able to apply a nationwide standard on them.  I know my wing is doing missions that we were unable to do prior to the current system because the Wing King didn't want to take responsibility for approving them. 

[WheelsUp]

Let's also take the stance that the reporter may have his facts mixed up.
It may have been that during a CD mission CAP reported unusual acitivity that the police followed up on and found them to be keg parties.
As opposed to CAP out flying around looking for Keg Parties.
Just saying. 

I'm a media guy myself, and I readily agree that there may have been a foulup on the reporter's part. I see it all the time, especially when it comes to coverage of LE and military.
But the story notes that this happened at night - and it's hard to do CD missions at night.
Just saying. 

At any rate, I have the distinct impression that this was a pre-planned mission specifically to go after keggers. Any lawyers out there want to comment?

[vmstan]

I'm all for it. As long as the LEOs involved are paying customers Beyond that, one of our standing programs involve Drug Reduction, and booze is a controlled substance.

This is one of those situations where Aux On/Aux Off is rather helpful.

[NIN]

Bust up a keg party from the air?  Didn't we just talk about dropping things from our planes?  That oughta bust up a keg party really good...

[JoeTomasone]

Bust up a keg party from the air?  Didn't we just talk about dropping things from our planes?  That oughta bust up a keg party really good...

What if you are dropping more kegs?   


A few quotes lead me to believe that CAP's assistance was planned and that the reporter got it right:

Boise police have been coordinating the multi-agency "kegger patrol" for graduation weekend for the past three years but this was the first time they were able to use the Civil Air Patrol to help out, Officer Jermain Galloway said Monday.

The pilots with the Civil Air Patrol flew over the Foothills area to the north and the desert south of Ada County, where they were able to spot tell tale signs of keg parties, like fires or large amounts of cars parked miles off established roads in the desert or Foothills rural, Galloway said. The planes helped law enforcement cover about 1,000 square miles of rural, desert, and Foothills areas.

Pilots (plural) and 1000 square mile coverage...

The Idaho Transportation Department sponsored multi-agency effort. Boise police coordinated it and partnered with the Ada and Boise county sheriff's offices, Idaho State Police, the Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Forest Service, The Boise City Attorney's office, Ada County Juvenile Probation, and Civil Air Patrol.

Galloway said he got the idea to see if the Civil Air Patrol, the volunteer Auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force, would be available to help and began talking with the BLM about it a month ago.

[shorning]

Bust up a keg party from the air?  Didn't we just talk about dropping things from our planes?  That oughta bust up a keg party really good...

Perhaps we could drop some recruiting materials...

[JC004]

Bust up a keg party from the air?  Didn't we just talk about dropping things from our planes?  That oughta bust up a keg party really good...

Perhaps we could drop some recruiting materials...

Or we could implement this idea...

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=10555.msg195060#msg195060

[vmstan]

Shoot lightning bolts at them?

[Al Sayre]

Maybe not lightning bolts but how about one of these?   http://www.navsea.navy.mil/default.aspx

[MIKE]

It's a fricken laser.[/Dr. Evil]

[JC004]

Shoot lightning bolts at them?

I don't see why not...

[AirAux]

You just can't tell what kind of hell will break loose out in the middle of the dessert with a bunch of high school graduates and beer.. Thank God no one thought of this back in 65..  I wonder how many CAP cadets were in the groups on the ground partying??  "Honest Officer, I'm undercover for our eyes in the sky."  This is a much better use of our time than stopping illegals from entering the country..  Carry on men, be sure and give all of those graduating kids police records so they can't ever get ahead in life..  Why should they party down on the first really big accomplishment they have ever done.  Hurray for the death of common sense and welcome to the police state.. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of.. Let's alert the CAP we have underage drinkers on the loose again.. 

[davidsinn]

You just can't tell what kind of hell will break loose out in the middle of the dessert with a bunch of high school graduates and beer.. Thank God no one thought of this back in 65..  I wonder how many CAP cadets were in the groups on the ground partying??  "Honest Officer, I'm undercover for our eyes in the sky."  This is a much better use of our time than stopping illegals from entering the country..  Carry on men, be sure and give all of those graduating kids police records so they can't ever get ahead in life..  Why should they party down on the first really big accomplishment they have ever done.  Hurray for the death of common sense and welcome to the police state.. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of.. Let's alert the CAP we have underage drinkers on the loose again..

You do realize that underage drinkers have a much greater risk of being alcoholics. They are breaking the law no matter how you want to look at it. If they get a record out of this it's their own fault for being stupid. It's quite possible to have a party and stay sober.

[SarDragon]

Another concern, over and above the drunkenness, is the damage to the party area. Some of these events have resulted in fires, and there is usually a lot of trash and debris left behind, too.

[AirAux]

Maybe you didn't see downtown Washington D.C., after Obama was sworn in??  Trashed the whole place..

[JayT]

You just can't tell what kind of hell will break loose out in the middle of the dessert with a bunch of high school graduates and beer.. Thank God no one thought of this back in 65..  I wonder how many CAP cadets were in the groups on the ground partying??  "Honest Officer, I'm undercover for our eyes in the sky."  This is a much better use of our time than stopping illegals from entering the country..  Carry on men, be sure and give all of those graduating kids police records so they can't ever get ahead in life..  Why should they party down on the first really big accomplishment they have ever done.  Hurray for the death of common sense and welcome to the police state.. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of.. Let's alert the CAP we have underage drinkers on the loose again..

You do realize that underage drinkers have a much greater risk of being alcoholics. They are breaking the law no matter how you want to look at it. If they get a record out of this it's their own fault for being stupid. It's quite possible to have a party and stay sober.

Because everyone should have to live with the mistakes they made when they were sixteen.

Don't have any skeleton's in your closet?

[davidsinn]

You just can't tell what kind of hell will break loose out in the middle of the dessert with a bunch of high school graduates and beer.. Thank God no one thought of this back in 65..  I wonder how many CAP cadets were in the groups on the ground partying??  "Honest Officer, I'm undercover for our eyes in the sky."  This is a much better use of our time than stopping illegals from entering the country..  Carry on men, be sure and give all of those graduating kids police records so they can't ever get ahead in life..  Why should they party down on the first really big accomplishment they have ever done.  Hurray for the death of common sense and welcome to the police state.. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of.. Let's alert the CAP we have underage drinkers on the loose again..

You do realize that underage drinkers have a much greater risk of being alcoholics. They are breaking the law no matter how you want to look at it. If they get a record out of this it's their own fault for being stupid. It's quite possible to have a party and stay sober.

Because everyone should have to live with the mistakes they made when they were sixteen.

Don't have any skeleton's in your closet?

I have plenty of skeletons in my closet but other than a little speeding here with no tickets(couple of written warnings though) none of them are illegal. Drinking alcohol under age is not a mistake, it's a conscience choice. These are graduation parties so they are nearly all 18 year old adults so yes, they should have to live with the consequences of their actions.

[Short Field]

You do realize that underage drinkers have a much greater risk of being alcoholics.

And just being plain DEAD from alcohol poisoning or car wrecks.

[Short Field]

Why should they party down on the first really big accomplishment they have ever done.  Hurray for the death of common sense and welcome to the police state.. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of.. Let's alert the CAP we have underage drinkers on the loose again..

Sorry, but underage drinking is NOT something I can support.   Why are you so vehement in supporting it?  Just one of the laws you feel should broken?

[WheelsUp]

There's no doubt that what these young people were doing was against the law, and that the scariest issue is them getting behind the wheel afterward (among other things).

I started this thread to see what folks had to say on active CAP involvement in local Law Enforcement, not parsing the right/wrong of the suspects of these particular crimes.

[Short Field]

Maybe you didn't see downtown Washington D.C., after Obama was sworn in??  Trashed the whole place..

I lived in DC for three years.  After EVERY major event, the mall area was trashed.  DC knows how to handle it - they just clean it up.   

[Short Field]

I started this thread to see what folks had to say on active CAP involvement in local Law Enforcement, not parsing the right/wrong of the suspects of these particular crimes.

This is conducting recon for LE.  Not much different than any other missions we conduct in support of LE.  It is more of a neighborhood watch in the sky than anything else.

[JC004]

Maybe you didn't see downtown Washington D.C., after Obama was sworn in??  Trashed the whole place..

I lived in DC for three years.  After EVERY major event, the mall area was trashed.  DC knows how to handle it - they just clean it up.   

HAHA.  Yeah I was there at the time.  After it was over, the workers went about their normal duties with the cleanup and down came the platform and everything else - overnight.  Same thing with the 4th of July and all...

[SarDragon]

Hence, my point that the remote forested areas do not have that level of support, and the trash accumulates until the "users" decide there's too much, and move somewhere else to repeat the process.

[Earhart1971]

Can somebody please design the "Keg Party FIND RIBBON"? Keg devices for additional finds, LOL!

[Short Field]

Watched a 19 year old get sentenced today to two consecutive 12 year prison terms for killing two people in a car accident while DWI.  Maybe a citation or two for underage drinking a few years ago might have prevented this.   

[SarDragon]

Can somebody please design the "Keg Party FIND RIBBON"? Keg devices for additional finds, LOL!

You asked for it!

[Earhart1971]

Can somebody please design the "Keg Party FIND RIBBON"? Keg devices for additional finds, LOL!

You asked for it!

Great Job! The Ribbon of course the Color of Beer!

[tsrup]

Does anyone see this article as a potential problem for Cadet Programs?

Whether it be a recruiting issue:
New cadets are less inclined to join because of CAP's active role in busting their peers.  (May not be true or right, but preception is everything)

Or potential backlash against current CAP cadets by their peers for their affiliation.  That could affect retention of our cadet members.

I'm all for the chance for new and diverse missions, but this sounds like a once annually event that will sandpaper away at one of the legs of our three legged charter.

[JayT]

Does anyone see this article as a potential problem for Cadet Programs?

Whether it be a recruiting issue:
New cadets are less inclined to join because of CAP's active role in busting their peers.  (May not be true or right, but preception is everything)

Or potential backlash against current CAP cadets by their peers for their affiliation.  That could affect retention of our cadet members.

I'm all for the chance for new and diverse missions, but this sounds like a once annually event that will sandpaper away at one of the legs of our three legged charter.

Honestly, I think that the CAP cadet corps is stonger then that, and CAP cadets in general aren't the type that are predisposed to do the whole kegger thing.

I don't think that I had more then a glass of beer or two until I was twenty one because of the positive influence of CAP.

[wuzafuzz]

Does anyone see this article as a potential problem for Cadet Programs?

Whether it be a recruiting issue:
New cadets are less inclined to join because of CAP's active role in busting their peers.  (May not be true or right, but preception is everything)

Or potential backlash against current CAP cadets by their peers for their affiliation.  That could affect retention of our cadet members.

I'm all for the chance for new and diverse missions, but this sounds like a once annually event that will sandpaper away at one of the legs of our three legged charter.

I see this as almost a complete non-issue.  None of that was a problem when I was involved in law enforcement explorers as a teenager, and I was present for far more direct enforcement than CAP could ever dream of.  We caught a few comments from time to time but nothing serious.  Of course YMMV depending on the kind of town you're in.

[Krapenhoeffer]

I personally think that Cadets can handle any potential heat coming from this. I mean, they already willingly cut their hair, in opposition to the fads of today. They willingly subject themselves to military discipline, and I personally think that the vast majority of Cadets would wear any potential heat as a badge of honor.

CAP Cadets, from my experience, pride themselves on being above others their age, and that should make any CAPper proud.

Go Cadets!  :clap: