Can somebody confirm that SMWOG (if they are not after NCO ranks) are now to wear the blank grey epaulet slides? If so, both on the shirt and coat? Thanks.
Page 124 of CAPM39-1 - Attachment 5 shows a picture of the slide with the name "Adult Member Pursuing Officer Grade", but it is not very clearly specified in the text sections of the Blue or Corporate uniforms.
Quote1.4.1. Adult individuals without grade pursuing officer promotion will wear the USAF-style or Corporate-style uniform as for Officers without any rank insignia.
1.4.1.1. USAF-style Uniforms. With the Service Dress Uniform (Class A), these individuals will wear the officer-style service coat, with sleeve braid, officer-style flight cap, US collar insignia, and gray epaulet sleeves without rank insignia. With the Blue Service Uniform (Class B), these individuals will wear the officer style flight cap and gray epaulet sleeve without grade insignia. On the Battle Dress Uniform, these individuals will wear CAP cutouts on ultramarine blue cloth centered one inch from the bottom edge on both sides of the collar. With the USAF-style Flight Duty Uniform (FDU), officer grade flight cap will be worn, and no grade insignia will be worn on the namepatch. These individuals will not wear Mess Dress.
1.4.1.2. Corporate Style Uniforms. On the Corporate-style Field Uniform, no collar insignia or rank insignia on the hat will be worn. On the Aviator shirt, gray epaulets without grade insignia will be worn. On the Corporate-style FDU, no grade insignia will be worn on the namepatch.
There ya go.
Quote from: Brad on July 28, 2014, 04:03:24 PM
Quote1.4.1. Adult individuals without grade pursuing officer promotion will wear the USAF-style or Corporate-style uniform as for Officers without any rank insignia.
1.4.1.1. USAF-style Uniforms. With the Service Dress Uniform (Class A), these individuals will wear the officer-style service coat, with sleeve braid, officer-style flight cap, US collar insignia, and gray epaulet sleeves without rank insignia. With the Blue Service Uniform (Class B), these individuals will wear the officer style flight cap and gray epaulet sleeve without grade insignia. On the Battle Dress Uniform, these individuals will wear CAP cutouts on ultramarine blue cloth centered one inch from the bottom edge on both sides of the collar. With the USAF-style Flight Duty Uniform (FDU), officer grade flight cap will be worn, and no grade insignia will be worn on the namepatch. These individuals will not wear Mess Dress.
1.4.1.2. Corporate Style Uniforms. On the Corporate-style Field Uniform, no collar insignia or rank insignia on the hat will be worn. On the Aviator shirt, gray epaulets without grade insignia will be worn. On the Corporate-style FDU, no grade insignia will be worn on the namepatch.
There ya go.
Seems pretty clear to me.
Thanks, I must be blind or unable to read... :-[
They gotta be kidding!
Blank epaulets?
Sounds like a scam for Vanguard to increase revenures!
Quote from: ZigZag911 on July 28, 2014, 07:36:55 PM
They gotta be kidding!
Blank epaulets?
Sounds like a scam for Vanguard to increase revenures!
I'd say at least 1 in 4 new SMs bought them before anyway due to lack of guidance.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on July 28, 2014, 08:09:24 PM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on July 28, 2014, 07:36:55 PM
They gotta be kidding!
Blank epaulets?
Sounds like a scam for Vanguard to increase revenures!
I'd say at least 1 in 4 new SMs bought them before anyway due to lack of guidance.
This. They just made official what was already being done in many cases.
I'd say it's a good decision in the name of uniformity, i.e. officer ascension programs. Case in point Navy OCS:
(http://www.betadesigns.com/vgrfx/GIF/Watermarked/One%20Mile%20Up/Navy/Shoulder%20Boards/Navy-Officer-Candidate_.gif)
I know usually the SMWOG period is just the 6 months, but there still is that fair share that are perfectly happy to be just SMWOGs.
Quote from: ZigZag911 on July 28, 2014, 07:36:55 PM
They gotta be kidding!
Blank epaulets?
Sounds like a scam for Vanguard to increase revenures!
Actually, the blank epaulets are leftover from when the NCOs wore pin-on insignia with them.
Quote from: arajca on July 29, 2014, 05:03:19 AM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on July 28, 2014, 07:36:55 PM
They gotta be kidding!
Blank epaulets?
Sounds like a scam for Vanguard to increase revenures!
Actually, the blank epaulets are leftover from when the NCOs wore pin-on insignia with them.
But were much more commonly being worn improperly by SMWOGs who didn't know any better, and commanders who either didn't know or didn't bother to make a correction.
It looks absurd.
Of course everyone should adhere to the regulation...but I still think it looks silly!
Quote from: ZigZag911 on July 30, 2014, 02:04:38 AM
It looks absurd.
Of course everyone should adhere to the regulation...but I still think it looks silly!
Not as silly as when I came back after 6 years with all my bling and no grade slides. Next meeting I took it all off and just had my nameplate. Looked like an airman basic.
Seriously??!!
Why in the world would a person wear epaulets with nothing on them? That's pointless.
To be in the military or even CAP, means we focus on the mission... and not on little things that don't matter. However, we have to be at least somewhat mindful of how we look to the public.
Epaulets with nothing on them? So... people would be wearing them for what exactly?
How ridiculous.
^^^ Note that SMWOG no longer wear CAP cutouts on the collars. Perhaps the blank slides with the CAP embroided on it was meant to replace the cutouts. :angel:
Quote from: vento on July 31, 2014, 03:50:14 AM
^^^ Note that SMWOG no longer wear CAP cutouts on the collars. Perhaps the blank slides with the CAP embroided on it was meant to replace the cutouts. :angel:
They decided to simplify things for the new member. They don't need to buy a different flight cap or a set of cut outs that they're only going to wear for a few months.
And yes, the CAP on the epaulets takes the place of the metal cut outs on the collar.
Quote from: vento on July 31, 2014, 03:50:14 AM
^^^ Note that SMWOG no longer wear CAP cutouts on the collars. Perhaps the blank slides with the CAP embroided on it was meant to replace the cutouts. :angel:
This.
At least in our neck of the woods, people were hesitant to put holes in their collar with the CAP cut-outs for the six months they were SMWOG, so we were getting members who didn't want to wear their blues/G&Ws until they got promoted.
Somehow thousands of cadets were able to rub those holes away....for decades.
If you launder, dry clean, or iron a shirt, the holes go away. Those "holes," are probably just threads separated for the most part.
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on July 31, 2014, 12:50:58 PM
If you launder, dry clean, or iron a shirt, the holes go away. Those "holes," are probably just threads separated for the most part.
Interestingly, even after washing, the holes from the ribbons, badges, and name plate stayed in my shirt, even if I washed it in with the heavy stuff like jeans and towels. They did go away after ironing, but the little dirt or metal shavings from the pins stayed, like an evil shadow...
Quote from: supertigerCH on July 31, 2014, 02:37:37 AM
Seriously??!!
Why in the world would a person wear epaulets with nothing on them? That's pointless.
To be in the military or even CAP, means we focus on the mission... and not on little things that don't matter. However, we have to be at least somewhat mindful of how we look to the public.
Epaulets with nothing on them? So... people would be wearing them for what exactly?
How ridiculous.
So you can tell difference between a CAP SMWOG and a USAF Airman Basic at a first glance.
Quote from: shuman14 on July 31, 2014, 05:05:02 PM
So you can tell difference between a CAP SMWOG and a USAF Airman Basic at a first glance.
Don't forget "low-light/at-a-distance." >:D
Quote from: CyBorg on July 31, 2014, 06:38:16 PM
Quote from: shuman14 on July 31, 2014, 05:05:02 PM
So you can tell difference between a CAP SMWOG and a USAF Airman Basic at a first glance.
Don't forget "low-light/at-a-distance." >:D
(http://captalk.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19131.0;attach=5489;image)
Pictured above is CAP's most recent proposal for an update to its service dress uniform, unfortunately it
was rejected because of the possibly that it might still be visible at night by bats and anyone using
a sonar-based device, this despite the fact that all insignia were designed to absorb the full spectrum
of known wavelengths of light, including ultraviolet and infrared.
A spokesman for CAP who asked not to be named (because he's mad he has to get his MSA to be a PAO)
indicated "We simply can't risk a random Airman making a mistake and accidentally acknowledging the presence
of someone in CAP."
[attachment deleted by admin]
Don't forget the ones who are not literate enough to read "CIVIL AIR PATROL" or even "CAP." >:D
Quote from: Eclipse on July 31, 2014, 07:19:35 PM
A spokesman for CAP who asked not to be named (because he's mad he has to get his MSA to be a PAO)
indicated "We simply can't risk a random Airman making a mistake and accidentally acknowledging the presence
of someone in CAP."
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/036/342/youwintheinternet.jpg)
The "guidelines" should actually say that CAP uniforms and insignia cannot be confused with military personnel by an Army Aviation CWO-5 with 10,000 hours of flying and a Master Army Aviator rating flying an OH-58 with FLIR pods and/or NVG's.
That would be more logical than the current ones.
We had a new member join just before the new 39-1. Vanguard sent him the blank slides for free just after the manual dropped.
Vento's response (about CAP trying to make things simple for new members & those who remain without grade)... seems to make sense. However, to me it seems that even if this really is what CAP is attempting to do... it still looks quite silly to have epaulets with no rank on them.
The primary purpose of putting epaulets on a shirt... is to mount rank in a place that is easily seen. This has been true of military-type uniforms all around the world for centuries. Requiring epaulets with no rank on a uniform... is like insisting that every school or post office must build a flag pole... and then making it policy that flags are not to be flown on those poles.
In the end, it just doesn't look very good (or squared away). People who wear the uniform this way... walk around looking like Captain Kangaroo.