Interesting read. I know there have been a few threads on this regarding commercial and private pilots starting to use more technology in the cockpit. But, it seems that now Air Mobility Command has followed suit.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/295430/20120208/air-force-18000-apple-ipad-bags.htm (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/295430/20120208/air-force-18000-apple-ipad-bags.htm)
Ugh. Never send a toy to do a computer's job...
iPad 2 or equivalent.
Phwew, had me worried there. ;D
The Transformer Prime (ASUS) would be a very nice alternative.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 09, 2012, 12:25:43 AM
Ugh. Never send a toy to do a computer's job...
Toy?
What's your choice of similar hardware?
Speaking of iPads on the flight deck:
http://www.tuaw.com/2012/02/08/australian-pilot-sues-because-he-doesnt-have-an-ipad/ (http://www.tuaw.com/2012/02/08/australian-pilot-sues-because-he-doesnt-have-an-ipad/)
::)
Quote from: SarDragon on February 09, 2012, 12:29:50 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 09, 2012, 12:25:43 AM
Ugh. Never send a toy to do a computer's job...
Toy?
What's your choice of similar hardware?
The one mentioned above is a good choice. Even The Woz admits iOS devices are for people afraid of real computers.
Somewhat of a funny story but here at my office, the admin assistants truly believe that our planes will fall out of the sky if Microsoft Exchange is down and the pilots can't get their email in the air. We have some corporate jets with Wifi in them that the pilots use to check schedules and such. They scared the assistants in believing that so IT won't do maintenance on the E-Mail server while they are in flight....
The iPads are being used to replace the paper manuals and regulations that currently have to be carried on the aircraft.
They take up way too much space and are a pain to keep current. The iPads can be kept current with much less effort.
There won't be any inflight updates or e-mail. They have other ways to send the crew e-mails and such already. (HF ALE and Imarsat)
Quote from: bassque on February 09, 2012, 01:05:30 AM
Somewhat of a funny story but here at my office, the admin assistants truly believe that our planes will fall out of the sky if Microsoft Exchange is down and the pilots can't get their email in the air. We have some corporate jets with Wifi in them that the pilots use to check schedules and such. They scared the assistants in believing that so IT won't do maintenance on the E-Mail server while they are in flight....
Classic :clap:
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 02:02:23 AM
The iPads are being used to replace the paper manuals and regulations that currently have to be carried on the aircraft.
They take up way too much space and are a pain to keep current. The iPads can be kept current with much less effort.
There won't be any inflight updates or e-mail. They have other ways to send the crew e-mails and such already. (HF ALE and Imarsat)
A netbook can't do that better?
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 09, 2012, 02:34:31 AM
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 02:02:23 AM
The iPads are being used to replace the paper manuals and regulations that currently have to be carried on the aircraft.
They take up way too much space and are a pain to keep current. The iPads can be kept current with much less effort.
There won't be any inflight updates or e-mail. They have other ways to send the crew e-mails and such already. (HF ALE and Imarsat)
A netbook can't do that better?
An iPad is all about the interface. I love my netbook (Dell Mini 10, dual boots Win7 & Snow Leopard...Pfft, take that Steve Jobs), but the *last* thing I wanna deal with in the cockpit is the windows interface and that keyboard.
Seriously: an iPad's interface is dead simple to operate. Displaying the Jepp diagram of an airport does not, in theory, require much horsepower. A netbook to do so would be the wrong interface for the task and environment.
An iPad or the aforementioned Transformer (mmmm, that thing is even nicer than the reviews will have you believe, BTW) fit that bill.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 09, 2012, 02:34:31 AM
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 02:02:23 AM
The iPads are being used to replace the paper manuals and regulations that currently have to be carried on the aircraft.
They take up way too much space and are a pain to keep current. The iPads can be kept current with much less effort.
There won't be any inflight updates or e-mail. They have other ways to send the crew e-mails and such already. (HF ALE and Imarsat)
A netbook can't do that better?
NO. They don't need a computer, just a book reader. The iPads success in that area is clear. Don't need a keyboard to read. It's small. It's light. It works.
Quote from: Thrashed on February 09, 2012, 02:41:16 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 09, 2012, 02:34:31 AM
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 02:02:23 AM
The iPads are being used to replace the paper manuals and regulations that currently have to be carried on the aircraft.
They take up way too much space and are a pain to keep current. The iPads can be kept current with much less effort.
There won't be any inflight updates or e-mail. They have other ways to send the crew e-mails and such already. (HF ALE and Imarsat)
A netbook can't do that better?
NO. They don't need a computer, just a book reader. The iPads success in that area is clear. Don't need a keyboard to read. It's small. It's light. It works.
There are better, cheaper alternatives though. Take my Acer A500 for example or the Transformer that was already mentioned.
I think an Asus Eee PC T91MT-PU17-BK would work just fine. Touchscreen with a netbook's power.
Besides, they could just modify linux and that'd work. Or get chrome OS.
They don't need tablets. I understand they don't need a keyboard, but if they can get better for cheaper, I'd jump on it.
Sheesh they could probably build a barebones slim PC for 200-250...
If all they need is an e-reader wouldn't a kindle or nook work better?
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 09, 2012, 03:33:10 AM
I think an Asus Eee PC T91MT-PU17-BK would work just fine. Touchscreen with a netbook's power.
Besides, they could just modify linux and that'd work. Or get chrome OS.
They don't need tablets. I understand they don't need a keyboard, but if they can get better for cheaper, I'd jump on it.
Sheesh they could probably build a barebones slim PC for 200-250...
If all they need is an e-reader wouldn't a kindle or nook work better?
Charts dude. You need full color and pretty good speed. Adding a GPS chip adds a whole new dimension to what you can. I'm setting my tab up to be used for scanner and observer duties.
Off the shelf is the way to go. You start having to modify stuff and the costs go up very quickly. Especially when you're buying 18,000 of something!
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 04:58:39 AM
Off the shelf is the way to go. You start having to modify stuff and the costs go up very quickly. Especially when you're buying 18,000 of something!
iPad already has GPS. I'm talking about a COTS solution.
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 04:58:39 AM
Off the shelf is the way to go. You start having to modify stuff and the costs go up very quickly. Especially when you're buying 18,000 of something!
No it isn't. Buying off the shelf crappy IOS products isn't a good idea.
Math:
Ipad 2: 500 X 18000=9000000
Asus Eee PC T91MT-PU17-BK: 375 X 18000=6750000
9m - 6.75m = 2.25m
They could afford to build a custom version of linux for 2.25m. Then you have everything you need, a better product AND you save a bit.
You guys said the planes had WIFI, so no extra cost.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 09, 2012, 05:57:38 AM
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 04:58:39 AM
Off the shelf is the way to go. You start having to modify stuff and the costs go up very quickly. Especially when you're buying 18,000 of something!
No it isn't. Buying off the shelf crappy IOS products isn't a good idea.
Math:
Ipad 2: 500 X 18000=9000000
Asus Eee PC T91MT-PU17-BK: 375 X 18000=6750000
9m - 6.75m = 2.25m
They could afford to build a custom version of linux for 2.25m. Then you have everything you need, a better product AND you save a bit.
You guys said the planes had WIFI, so no extra cost.
I hate Apple products like the devil incarnate but in this case you're wrong because there is already an ecosystem there. Commercial charts are already available for iPad. There are more accessories than you can shake a stick at. The Asus you pointed out has way too many moving parts and things that can go wrong. Also, as much as I hate to admit it 2.25 mil is a rounding error in the DOD budget.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 09, 2012, 05:57:38 AM
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 04:58:39 AM
Off the shelf is the way to go. You start having to modify stuff and the costs go up very quickly. Especially when you're buying 18,000 of something!
No it isn't. Buying off the shelf crappy IOS products isn't a good idea.
Math:
Ipad 2: 500 X 18000=9000000
Asus Eee PC T91MT-PU17-BK: 375 X 18000=6750000
9m - 6.75m = 2.25m
They could afford to build a custom version of linux for 2.25m. Then you have everything you need, a better product AND you save a bit.
You guys said the planes had WIFI, so no extra cost.
You know the USAF has some very serious gear heads......the bid for this buy went out to all the serious players and IPAD won.
It is not like some SrA was sitting in an office with a credit card and the best buy web page up waiting for the go ahead to buy 180000 computers.
From a maintenance perspective....both comm and aircraft.....it is six of one and half dozen of the other. They all basically fit the same bill.....the users don't care about OS, apps, what ever.....they needed some thing that was big enough to read, small enough to fit on a knee board, rugged enough to be abused (pilots abuse everything), simple enough to use and easy to update.
The contracting office put out the RFP and IPAD won.
We can argue the benifits of one OS over the other, or one table over the other....but it's too late now.
BTW.....This is about the 900th X vs Y fight I have seen in the last 20+ years.
Wordstar VS Word VS Word Perfect
VHS vs Beta
Commodore Vs PC VS Amiga
PC VS MAC
DOS VS UNIX
Windows VS Linix
Pentium VS AMD
IPhone VS Android
Some times it gets a little old! :-\
I believe that American Airlines has recently gotten approval from the FAA to replace their 50 lbs of paper charts with iPADs. American has estimated how much fuel will be saved from not carrying those big chart bags with one per pilot. Thrash may fly for American, so listen to what he says.
I doubt that many airline pilots give a rats p------ what most of you guys have to say about various other pieces of computer equipment. They will use what their airline buys for them. And the Air Force certainly doesn't care: just pay your taxes and keep quiet.
Quote from: davidsinn on February 09, 2012, 06:07:44 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 09, 2012, 05:57:38 AM
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 04:58:39 AM
Off the shelf is the way to go. You start having to modify stuff and the costs go up very quickly. Especially when you're buying 18,000 of something!
No it isn't. Buying off the shelf crappy IOS products isn't a good idea.
Math:
Ipad 2: 500 X 18000=9000000
Asus Eee PC T91MT-PU17-BK: 375 X 18000=6750000
9m - 6.75m = 2.25m
They could afford to build a custom version of linux for 2.25m. Then you have everything you need, a better product AND you save a bit.
You guys said the planes had WIFI, so no extra cost.
I hate Apple products like the devil incarnate but in this case you're wrong because there is already an ecosystem there. Commercial charts are already available for iPad. There are more accessories than you can shake a stick at. The Asus you pointed out has way too many moving parts and things that can go wrong. Also, as much as I hate to admit it 2.25 mil is a rounding error in the DOD budget.
read what I responded to. 2.25M isn't large, but it is certainly enough for the DOD to build a custom version of linux on.
If that ASUS has to many moving parts than choose one of the other 200+ touchscreen netbooks. I chose that one because I know off the top of my head it is a good touchscreen netbook.
If the charts already are available for Ipads, they are certainly available downloadable.
QuoteYou know the USAF has some very serious gear heads......the bid for this buy went out to all the serious players and IPAD won.
It is not like some SrA was sitting in an office with a credit card and the best buy web page up waiting for the go ahead to buy 180000 computers.
From a maintenance perspective....both comm and aircraft.....it is six of one and half dozen of the other. They all basically fit the same bill.....the users don't care about OS, apps, what ever.....they needed some thing that was big enough to read, small enough to fit on a knee board, rugged enough to be abused (pilots abuse everything), simple enough to use and easy to update.
The contracting office put out the RFP and IPAD won.
We can argue the benifits of one OS over the other, or one table over the other....but it's too late now.
It didn't go out to everyone, because someone would've leaked it. They leak EVERYTHING!
While the users don't care about features, IT should look for the most bang for your buck. Non-mobile OSes would allow you to have more than one window at a time, easier and cheaper maintenance, longer battery life, physical keyboard(a big plus, not everyone has small fingers).
Hm... Personally my experiences with Android devices have been pretty awful (terrible user interface and cheap, plastic hardware), but I have yet to be able to try Honeycomb/ICS, which I do want to check out. I own an iPhone 4S and an iPad and they both meet pretty much all of my needs. With devices like phones and tablets, I need a "just works every time" device, not a "I want to customize my app launcher and 100 other things" device.
The only thing I dislike about iOS is that it's a nightmare in an enterprise/mass deployment scenario. Apple doesn't open up enough information or controls in the Mobile Device Management (MDM) API, which means that app deployment is a pain, the end user can remove the device from management, and a whole host of other limitations that IT departments rather dislike. My school district has a lot of iPads already and will be getting more - I've been trying to put together a management plan for them and in the process I have decided that if they had asked me about it from the get-go we would never have bought them.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 09, 2012, 07:54:07 AMIt didn't go out to everyone, because someone would've leaked it. They leak EVERYTHING!
While the users don't care about features, IT should look for the most bang for your buck. Non-mobile OSes would allow you to have more than one window at a time, easier and cheaper maintenance, longer battery life, physical keyboard(a big plus, not everyone has small fingers).
They did leak it.....you just did not hear about it.
Extremeprejudice,
Something you're also not thinking about is post-purchase support (for 2-3 years, or whatever lifecycle Ma Blue has decided on). That's perfectly OK, you are approaching this like a consumer because you are one. However, whenever a business or other organization (especially the government) buys 18,000 of anything they are concerned with getting a good warranty with outstanding support for the length of the device lifecycle.
For example, I have RMA'd both Apple and Asus devices (we're going to talk about notebooks here but tablets are going to be the same thing). Apple was a four day turnaround, Asus was a three week turnaround. When you have a production device, that's a big deal. Apple offers AppleCare warranties that make it very easy to accomplish the repair process (for non-accidental damage cases), other vendors may or may not offer that (and again, when you are buying 18,000 of anything that's important because you are getting into the statistical odds that several will fail in production).
Something else to think about, is what's the average lifespan for one device vs. another (and that's the normal lifespan, not the techie I'm going to fine-tune and tweak the hell out of it lifespan), averaged over the entire group of devices. Warranty comes into play here again, but basically the overall plan is probably "we will buy a batch of these, and in three years (for example) we will replace them when the warranty runs out". With other vendors, that lifespan may be only two or one years, and if the purchaser has decided that the total lifecycle must be three years, that rules out a lot of options off the bat.
I'm not saying that Apple devices are best in all circumstances, but I'd be willing to be that in this case when you look at the total package Apple was the better option.
Quote from: lordmonar on February 09, 2012, 06:44:07 AM
BTW.....This is about the 900th X vs Y fight I have seen in the last 20+ years.
Pentium VS AMD
Some times it gets a little old! :-\
So who won this one ?
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on February 09, 2012, 06:14:08 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on February 09, 2012, 06:44:07 AM
BTW.....This is about the 900th X vs Y fight I have seen in the last 20+ years.
Pentium VS AMD
Some times it gets a little old! :-\
So who won this one ?
Microsoft. Their stuff runs on both. ;D
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 09, 2012, 05:57:38 AM
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 04:58:39 AM
Off the shelf is the way to go. You start having to modify stuff and the costs go up very quickly. Especially when you're buying 18,000 of something!
No it isn't. Buying off the shelf crappy IOS products isn't a good idea.
Math:
Ipad 2: 500 X 18000=9000000
Asus Eee PC T91MT-PU17-BK: 375 X 18000=6750000
9m - 6.75m = 2.25m
They could afford to build a custom version of linux for 2.25m. Then you have everything you need, a better product AND you save a bit.
You guys said the planes had WIFI, so no extra cost.
Do you really think they will pay full retail price for that kind of order? My airline ordered 12,000 iPads. I'm sure they got a deal, they hate to spend money on us.
By the way, I got to play with the new iPad the other day. Jepps for the whole world, company manuals, aircraft manuals, plus all the normal apps that come with it (email, camera, etc.) It works fine and weighs about 50lbs less than what I'm carrying now. :D
Quote from: Thrashed on February 11, 2012, 04:54:36 PM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 09, 2012, 05:57:38 AM
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 04:58:39 AM
Off the shelf is the way to go. You start having to modify stuff and the costs go up very quickly. Especially when you're buying 18,000 of something!
No it isn't. Buying off the shelf crappy IOS products isn't a good idea.
Math:
Ipad 2: 500 X 18000=9000000
Asus Eee PC T91MT-PU17-BK: 375 X 18000=6750000
9m - 6.75m = 2.25m
They could afford to build a custom version of linux for 2.25m. Then you have everything you need, a better product AND you save a bit.
You guys said the planes had WIFI, so no extra cost.
Do you really think they will pay full retail price for that kind of order? My airline ordered 12,000 iPads. I'm sure they got a deal, they hate to spend money on us.
Surprisingly, Apple doesn't budge on pricing much. You might have gotten a few bucks off, good for a few thousand dollars, but it wasn't killer.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on February 11, 2012, 04:58:13 PMSurprisingly, Apple doesn't budge on pricing much. You might have gotten a few bucks off, good for a few thousand dollars, but it wasn't killer.
Absolutely true, and part and parcel of their belief that they are a consumer brand, not an enterprise brand.
I'd be willing to bet there is little to no price break regardless of the quantity.
So nobody knows. ;)
Quote from: Thrashed on February 11, 2012, 04:54:36 PM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 09, 2012, 05:57:38 AM
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 04:58:39 AM
Off the shelf is the way to go. You start having to modify stuff and the costs go up very quickly. Especially when you're buying 18,000 of something!
No it isn't. Buying off the shelf crappy IOS products isn't a good idea.
Math:
Ipad 2: 500 X 18000=9000000
Asus Eee PC T91MT-PU17-BK: 375 X 18000=6750000
9m - 6.75m = 2.25m
They could afford to build a custom version of linux for 2.25m. Then you have everything you need, a better product AND you save a bit.
You guys said the planes had WIFI, so no extra cost.
Do you really think they will pay full retail price for that kind of order? My airline ordered 12,000 iPads. I'm sure they got a deal, they hate to spend money on us.
Even if they would knock money off I don't know the amount. I bet you ASUS, Acer, toshiba, dell, and the lot would knock off some. But again I don't know, so consumer pricing it is.
Uncle Sam saved some dough on it, and there was no sales tax on the item. Be interesting to see how many unit computers have iTunes installed to accommodate the iPad. And wonder if Apple has disabled the wifi aspect and such.
Quote from: abdsp51 on February 13, 2012, 01:19:55 AM
And wonder if Apple has disabled the wifi aspect and such.
That's easy enough for the customer to do with the iPhone Configuration Utility (also for iPads).
Maybe but it interesting to see what they have done to them to allow them to be plugged into a machine that is not stand alone.
iOS 5 no longer requires a computer to set up an iPad / iPhone, and most likely they would come from the USAF pre-configured and
secured.
Enterprise-class tools should not require a locally installed music store to configure them.
I have heard from sources that Apple does have issues with encryption.
Quote from: abdsp51 on February 13, 2012, 02:01:55 AM
I have heard from sources that Apple does have issues with encryption.
Issues with encryption? Which specifically? Apple uses all standard encryption protocols. (SHA/DES/3DES/SSL etc).
The protocals to allow devices to operate on the network. Especially in the personal wireless area, they are not able to meet the guidelines. Personally apple wouldn't be my first choice, but they were what was purchased. Wonder what the tech support turn around time will be on them.
Quote from: abdsp51 on February 15, 2012, 04:40:59 AM
The protocals to allow devices to operate on the network. Especially in the personal wireless area, they are not able to meet the guidelines. Personally apple wouldn't be my first choice, but they were what was purchased. Wonder what the tech support turn around time will be on them.
Are you talking about the wifi issues the iPads had in working with mixed-mode access points?
Didn't really ask.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/250498/air_force_abruptly_scraps_ipad_plan_for_special_ops.html#tk.hp_new (http://www.pcworld.com/article/250498/air_force_abruptly_scraps_ipad_plan_for_special_ops.html#tk.hp_new)
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/03/02/us_air_force_awards_9m_contract_for_up_to_18000_ipads.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/03/02/us_air_force_awards_9m_contract_for_up_to_18000_ipads.html)
"Ferrero said the contract price per unit came with a substantial discount which dropped the tablet's $599 retail price down to around $520."
So about a 13% discount on a $10M contract.
The current retail for an iPad2 is under $500, and these are an obsolete product, so this deal most likely looked a lot better last year when it was negotiated. When you consider how long these things take, Steve Jobs was probably still alive when the first phones calls were made. I wonder if an enterprise customer on this scale is told about upcoming products?
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/03/02/apple_begins_preparing_for_ipad_3_event_with_colorful_decorations.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/03/02/apple_begins_preparing_for_ipad_3_event_with_colorful_decorations.html)
By this time next week, a big chunk of people who haven't even figured out how to use what they have, will be mad that they don't have the latest.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 09, 2012, 05:57:38 AM
Quote from: PHall on February 09, 2012, 04:58:39 AM
Off the shelf is the way to go. You start having to modify stuff and the costs go up very quickly. Especially when you're buying 18,000 of something!
No it isn't. Buying off the shelf crappy IOS products isn't a good idea.
Math:
Ipad 2: 500 X 18000=9000000
Asus Eee PC T91MT-PU17-BK: 375 X 18000=6750000
9m - 6.75m = 2.25m
They could afford to build a custom version of linux for 2.25m. Then you have everything you need, a better product AND you save a bit.
You guys said the planes had WIFI, so no extra cost.
You get what you pay for. The iOS platform isn't crash-prone, it's simple to access information quickly, like when you need something quickly in the cockpit, and it's one less thing to fight with while you're doing something else. Can't say that for Windows, Android or anything else. Definitely not Windows. And before you throw Linux out there... remember that the Mac OS is Unix-based, so it's bulletproof. Again, can't say that for any other OS.
MAC OS bulletproof? No, not even close. User friendly and poor market share does not equal bulletproof.
There's no such thing.
Android is based on Linux as well, is just as secure, and more open. I'll do whatever I like with my technology, without having to ask for permission, thanks.
Nothing wrong with preferring one platform over another, but no fair making things up just to make a point.
Mac OS is stable. No blue screens. iOS is based on Mac OS, which is based on UNIX (not Linux), using the Mach kernel. UNIX itself was developed in the late 1960s by Bell Labs, so that it's still as robust today as it was back then speaks volumes, doesn't it? Linux is just a branch of the UNIX family tree.
As for Android, I can't speak to it much, other than that I know it's open-source, but that's useless for pilots who would likely need their electronic flight bag to be standardized. Besides, open source means open security. Not sure the Air Force would cotton to that too much.
To say OSX is "based on Unix" is somewhat of an oversimplification, to say the least. It is as far removed from "Unix", as
Linux is, and contains DNA from a whole mess of *NIX-esque systems such as BSD, not to mention a whole big chunk
(the majority in fact), of NEXTStep /OPENStep, which was SJ's (relatively) failed attempt to create a next-generation OS
in-house (and a little DARWIN thrown in for good measure).
And you're correct, OSX does not have "blue" screens of death, it has Gray and Black ones.
As to Android, while it is much, much more open, it is not fully open-sourced (there's somewhat of a complaint about that as a matter of fact). But regardless, "Open source" does not mean open security. To say that means you are either personally biased or don't understand the question. One of the reasons *nix-based operating are generally more secure is the openess, which means that developers, hackers, and anyone else interested may see exactly what it is doing, and how, including the holes, which are then fixed.
To say that iOS is based on OSX is factually correct, but doesn't mean much. It is also far removed, and highly tweaked and customized.
You cannot share apps between the two, and while there has been some speculation that Apple might attempt to merge the mobile and desktop OS' that is doubtful anytime soon, it's also irrelevant to the discussion.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 03, 2012, 01:22:35 AM
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/03/02/us_air_force_awards_9m_contract_for_up_to_18000_ipads.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/03/02/us_air_force_awards_9m_contract_for_up_to_18000_ipads.html)
"Ferrero said the contract price per unit came with a substantial discount which dropped the tablet's $599 retail price down to around $520."
So about a 13% discount on a $10M contract.
The current retail for an iPad2 is under $500, and these are an obsolete product, so this deal most likely looked a lot better last year when it was negotiated. When you consider how long these things take, Steve Jobs was probably still alive when the first phones calls were made. I wonder if an enterprise customer on this scale is told about upcoming products?
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/03/02/apple_begins_preparing_for_ipad_3_event_with_colorful_decorations.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/03/02/apple_begins_preparing_for_ipad_3_event_with_colorful_decorations.html)
By this time next week, a big chunk of people who haven't even figured out how to use what they have, will be mad that they don't have the latest.
Depends on how the Request For Proposal (RFP) is written.
If the RFP is very specific about what the customer wants or when they want it.....then no the bid proposals will match the RFB.
The government gets caught out on this all the time.
The contracting specialists who write the RFP don't always know what the the end user really wants or needs. The people talking to the contracting specialists may know what he WANTS.....but may not really know what he really needs.
The contractors who are submitting their proposals are going to write them so that they meet the RFP with as low a cost as possible. A contractor who submits their proposal that is answereing what the customer actually needs and not what they asked for is going probably going to loose the bid.
So.....I don't know what the RFP said.....but it could have been a simple supply related RFP....."Need 10,000 IPAD2 tables with XX PDF reader." Not a lot of wiggle room there....even if Apple is about to come out with the IPAD3 in only six months.
Quote from: lordmonar on March 03, 2012, 03:49:09 AMSo.....I don't know what the RFP said.....but it could have been a simple supply related RFP....."Need 10,000 IPAD2 tables with XX PDF reader." Not a lot of wiggle room there....even if Apple is about to come out with the IPAD3 in only six months.
And for the most part the update will be evolutionary vs. revolutionary, since they can all still handle the same OS. Other than a little weight and a magnetic cover, the 2 vs. the 1 wasn't all that exciting. The speculated updated display wold be nice for charts and old eyes, but
what they provide today, or even did in the one, far exceeded the need as it was.
Which reminds me, I have a couple of iPad-sicles out in the garage I should thaw out and update.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 03, 2012, 03:45:03 AM
To say OSX is "based on Unix" is somewhat of an oversimplification, to say the least. It is as far removed from "Unix", as
Linux is, and contains DNA from a whole mess of *NIX-esque systems such as BSD, not to mention a whole big chunk
(the majority in fact), of NEXTStep /OPENStep, which was SJ's (relatively) failed attempt to create a next-generation OS
in-house (and a little DARWIN thrown in for good measure).
And you're correct, OSX does not have "blue" screens of death, it has Gray and Black ones.
As to Android, while it is much, much more open, it is not fully open-sourced (there's somewhat of a complaint about that as a matter of fact). But regardless, "Open source" does not mean open security. To say that means you are either personally biased or don't understand the question. One of the reasons *nix-based operating are generally more secure is the openess, which means that developers, hackers, and anyone else interested may see exactly what it is doing, and how, including the holes, which are then fixed.
To say that iOS is based on OSX is factually correct, but doesn't mean much. It is also far removed, and highly tweaked and customized.
You cannot share apps between the two, and while there has been some speculation that Apple might attempt to merge the mobile and desktop OS' that is doubtful anytime soon, it's also irrelevant to the discussion.
NeXT failed, though its software heavily influenced the modern Mac OS. As for screens of death, I have yet to see one in Mac OS X. I sure saw a bunch of crashes in OS 9, OS 8, System 7, System 6, System 5.... dead mac screens, even. But I have yet to see a "screen of death" in OS X. And I'm a heavy Mac user. Care to show me one?
Simple fact is, they want what they want, and they'll get what they get. Open-source functionality doesn't mean much for what aviators do in the cockpit. I'm sure that since they'll be secured government computer devices, they need to be standardized and they will be. Just don't expect a CAC reader on the side of it.
Folks, they're buying these things to be electronic T.O. Libaries. They don't need a bunch of bells and whistles.
The crewmembers just need to be able to look up stuff when they need it.
Frankly, the users really don't care what OS they use.
As long as it works and they don't have to go to a half dozen classes to learn how to use it and they will be happy.
It's a tool...
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on March 03, 2012, 04:06:21 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 03, 2012, 03:45:03 AM
To say OSX is "based on Unix" is somewhat of an oversimplification, to say the least. It is as far removed from "Unix", as
Linux is, and contains DNA from a whole mess of *NIX-esque systems such as BSD, not to mention a whole big chunk
(the majority in fact), of NEXTStep /OPENStep, which was SJ's (relatively) failed attempt to create a next-generation OS
in-house (and a little DARWIN thrown in for good measure).
And you're correct, OSX does not have "blue" screens of death, it has Gray and Black ones.
As to Android, while it is much, much more open, it is not fully open-sourced (there's somewhat of a complaint about that as a matter of fact). But regardless, "Open source" does not mean open security. To say that means you are either personally biased or don't understand the question. One of the reasons *nix-based operating are generally more secure is the openess, which means that developers, hackers, and anyone else interested may see exactly what it is doing, and how, including the holes, which are then fixed.
To say that iOS is based on OSX is factually correct, but doesn't mean much. It is also far removed, and highly tweaked and customized.
You cannot share apps between the two, and while there has been some speculation that Apple might attempt to merge the mobile and desktop OS' that is doubtful anytime soon, it's also irrelevant to the discussion.
NeXT failed, though its software heavily influenced the modern Mac OS. As for screens of death, I have yet to see one in Mac OS X. I sure saw a bunch of crashes in OS 9, OS 8, System 7, System 6, System 5.... dead mac screens, even. But I have yet to see a "screen of death" in OS X. And I'm a heavy Mac user. Care to show me one?
Simple fact is, they want what they want, and they'll get what they get. Open-source functionality doesn't mean much for what aviators do in the cockpit. I'm sure that since they'll be secured government computer devices, they need to be standardized and they will be. Just don't expect a CAC reader on the side of it.
Kernel panics are "fun". You get them for the same reasons as a BSOD but it shows less detail requiring calls to Apple.
Quote from: PHall on March 03, 2012, 04:07:19 AM
Folks, they're buying these things to be electronic T.O. Libaries. They don't need a bunch of bells and whistles.
The crewmembers just need to be able to look up stuff when they need it.
Frankly, the users really don't care what OS they use.
As long as it works and they don't have to go to a half dozen classes to learn how to use it and they will be happy.
It's a tool...
+1
We still got computers running bloody Windows 95!
Because it works!
The gear heads will argue all day about some minor difference......all the stupid things need to do is display PDF files, survive the
ham-fingered the skillfull operations by the air crew......and maybe be protected against the
rat bastards maintenance guys adding things...when we find these things jammed up behind the control panel, underseats, in the ventalation system or lost behind the 3 pallet down.