WMU, anybody using it, is it any good?

[RickFranz]

Just sent the weekend being the Admin type at a SAREX, we where looking a using a data base to speed up sign-in etc...  I don't like reinventing the wheel if I don't have to.  Found the WMU on national web page just wondering if it's worth the time?

Your comments are most welcome.

Thanks

[Duke Dillio]

CA Wing and CO wing use it quite a bit.  I'm not a big fan of it.  I don't like the interoperability of it.  Can't say that I have used it for more than inputting my quals in.  I definately haven't used it to run a mission.  Sorry I can't help you more than that.

[Camas]

It probably depends to which wing you're assigned. Some wings use the WMU to input ES tasks and achievements but I understand that's no longer recommended; people should be using OpsQuals in e-services. Many wings continue to use the WMU for things like alerting and for flight releases. Other uses would include the communications menu for ROA certification and for wing-assigned station licenses along with generating personnel authorizations and online vehicle usage reporting.  I kinda think that, in the near future, much of this will all be done in e-services. The WMU has certainly been a valuable tool for many wings and it's likely that it will continue to have some uses in the future.

[IceNine]

Chances are if you just "stumbled" upon it your wing is not using the WMU, so using the IMU would most likely cause you more headache than good.

Try this http://tinyurl.com/6nnm6x

[flyguy06]

Western Michigan University

[bosshawk]

No, I think that it stands for Wing Management Utility.  We use it all the time in CAWG and I have to say that it seems to work pretty well.  As a pretty bad computer user, I have all sorts of problems with the WMU, but those who are not "computer challenged" claim that it is easy to use.  I probably am the wrong person to ask.  I seem to take at least a half hour to get a flight release entered and approved.  Fortunately, in the CD program, we don't use the WMU.

[jeders]

We use it a lot here in TXWG. In addition to what has been mentioned, we use it to enter safety meetings so that the Wing King can keep track of us.

I personally don't like it because I think we should put everything into eServices and WMIRS and stop using all these other utilities that are created by some CAP member with a lot of extra time. Not that they're inherently bad or anything, but with all of these extra things that some wings use and others don't, we're just hurting inter-wing interoperability. I think we should centralize it all into eServices for the non-mission stuff and WMIRS (or out WMIRS into something else) for all the mission stuff. This way everyone is working off of one centralized database instead of databases that only take info but never put it back in. YMMV.

[MIKE]

I like the IMU because it should in theory be more survivable in the field because you don't need an Internet connection... but I agree that such programs should not be used to the exclusion of NHQ Apps.  Supplement yes, replace no.  Same thing with SIMS.

[Eclipse]

It probably depends to which wing you're assigned. Some wings use the WMU to input ES tasks and achievements but I understand that's no longer recommended;

All wings were ordered off the WMU by General Bowling, so that's about 4+ years ago.

Unfortunately, at the time eServices was far from mature, even to the point that it could not generate 101 cards, so about 1/2 of them refused, and we are still cleaning up the mess.

Neither WMU nor eServices are perfect, both have stability, capacity and chain of approval issues which are non-trivial, some requiring wings to create kludgy people-based work arounds.

I'm not a fan of either, but I'm less a fan of having two separate systems and points of information.  My state has been working towards moving to eServices exclusively, but for better or worse the WMU still "works", and there are only so many hours in a year.

[SDF_Specialist]

As the Ohio Wing Licensing Officer, I constantly use the WMU. This is the best way to keep track of who has a card, and what level of training they've taken. I personally feel that it's great. Of course I don't use it for anything else, but that's not the poin

[Short Field]

The best source for confirming 101 qualifications and entering qualifications is eServices.  The WMU works well for flight release functions on proficiency flying, tracking safety meetings, and availability of members for ES operations. 

The IMU is constantly being upgraded, is difficult to learn, prone to unwelcomed surprises after a upgrade, and can be very frustrating.  Still, I would not think of running a SAR without it.  It downloads current data from the WMU for members qualifications and updates mission data seamlessly into WIMIRS.  It is not for the faint of heart - but well worth the trouble. 

[sarflyer]

I am a fan of all.  I'll even throw in SIMS to the pot.

They all do what they do pretty well but you need an IT savy guy to manage it for you.  There is a learning curve with them also as with anything new and that scares people away.

Nat'l just came out with cadet achievement management module which works pretty well but you can't input anything about Mitchell.  An email has to be sent for achievements about that.  I understand the concern but it's another link that slows down the process.

I am currently setting up SIMS for squadron use on a database server.  It is very versatile except that it doesn't sync with the National database like WMU does.   It does use the CAPWATCH and tCAPWATCH data but you have to download it separately.  This is something the developer has talked about put out there at some point. 

IMU is a pretty good utility for managing a mission.  And is uploadable to Nat'l.  WIMRS does not compare to it.

CT does not use it but at last info I heard MA uses IMU exclusively for all missions. 

I consider all of these programs, Tools for the toolbox".    I have to strongly recommend SIMS to any squadron commander out there.  Even though it doesn't upload to Nat'l yet it is a powerful tool and worth your time to check out.   www.squadroncommand.com

[SDF_Specialist]

The best source for confirming 101 qualifications and entering qualifications is eServices.

It would be a good thing for this, yes. But there are those wings that choose to use the WMU for entering the quals.

[mikeylikey]

All wings were ordered off the WMU by General Bowling, so that's about 4+ years ago.

I thought I remembered something like that. 

[Matt]

The best source for confirming 101 qualifications and entering qualifications is eServices.

Are we talking the same eServices here?  Because if so... wow...  Last I checked, eServices has no check for 101 qualifications, aside from unit CC, whereas WMU has the ability to ensure that all personnel are SET qualified, current, and able to sign things off...  And for no other reason than about 2 months ago, I got bored and made myself an IC-1 in eServices, do I NOT use it.  (I did later deny the IC-1 in eServices).

All wings were ordered off the WMU by General Bowling, so that's about 4+ years ago.

Funny, I swore that was for pilot recording, not the whole thing... silly me...

Also, if they fear it so much, then why to they say how to access it easily and why does NHQ host it... seems a little silly to me...

[Eclipse]

All wings were ordered off the WMU by General Bowling, so that's about 4+ years ago.

Funny, I swore that was for pilot recording, not the whole thing... silly me...

The requirement that flight ops and quals be entered exclusively in eservices is only about two years old - the directives to move off the WMU are from the Bowling era.

What makes you National hosts it?

[Matt]

What makes you National hosts it?

Sorry about that, quick read in class...

I re-read the topic and they don't technically host it, though it does have the NHQ designator... wmu.nat.cap.gov and it does sync with the CAP/IT servers...

[Short Field]

Last I checked, eServices has no check for 101 qualifications, aside from unit CC, whereas WMU has the ability to ensure that all personnel are SET qualified, current, and able to sign things off...  And for no other reason than about 2 months ago, I got bored and made myself an IC-1 in eServices, do I NOT use it.  (I did later deny the IC-1 in eServices).

I don't know what Wing you are in but it would seem people with validation permissions in eServices are not bothering to check on what they are validating.  I also find it impossible to validate your own achievements in eServices.  To have validated your own achievement, you would need to have signed in under another user ID.  I have been using the Ops Quals module since it came out and the approve button just don't come up for your own CAPID achievements that are pending approval.  Also, there are now TWO Unit Commander approvals required for most achievements before you can even get identified as a trainee in that achievement.

In our Wing, even if you decided to fill out all the items on a SQTR for IC-1, the most that would happen would be it is submitted to the Sq CC for validation.  If the SQ CC does validated it, it would get forwarded to the Wing Commander for approval.  Just submitting a SQTR doesn't automatically put it on your 101. 

[Matt]

Last I checked, eServices has no check for 101 qualifications, aside from unit CC, whereas WMU has the ability to ensure that all personnel are SET qualified, current, and able to sign things off...  And for no other reason than about 2 months ago, I got bored and made myself an IC-1 in eServices, do I NOT use it.  (I did later deny the IC-1 in eServices).

I don't know what Wing you are in but it would seem people with validation permissions in eServices are not bothering to check on what they are validating.  I also find it impossible to validate your own achievements in eServices.  To have validated your own achievement, you would need to have signed in under another user ID.  I have been using the Ops Quals module since it came out and the approve button just don't come up for your own CAPID achievements that are pending approval.  Also, there are now TWO Unit Commander approvals required for most achievements before you can even get identified as a trainee in that achievement.

In our Wing, even if you decided to fill out all the items on a SQTR for IC-1, the most that would happen would be it is submitted to the Sq CC for validation.  If the SQ CC does validated it, it would get forwarded to the Wing Commander for approval.  Just submitting a SQTR doesn't automatically put it on your 101. 

Without going into the policies here about it, they're actually quite active in that they are in eServices daily and check what is requested.

As for validation, no, I was on mine, starring happily at here's me, here's what I'm trying.  I do realize that lately NHQ has put a couple road blocks in.  I attempted this same thing about a week ago, and it told me I had to have the SQTR filled in -- to which I was too unmotivated to prove that point.

The point I made was: I didn't fill out the SQTR, I literally put in IC-1, Paperwork, Update... Now, again, I tried this more recently and it told me to check the SQTRs, but it still holds that it's able.  So, please don't take it as I was using the SQTR, I totally avoided it.

We use WMU for this exact reason.  It more than expedites the process, ensures that checks are in place, allows us to control SET qualifications (when the switch is on) and the like.  Plus, it's a lot easier to update records (and it doesn't kill itself if you enter one wrong CAPID and force you to start over).

Every two months or so, our ES directorate throughly evaluates which system is better.  We stick with the better choice, but give both ample opportunity to prove themselves, so it's not a matter of: we're a stick in the mud, it's a matter of user operation being easier...

[Tim Medeiros]

What I want to know is why all these developers out there aren't offering their services on a volunteer basis directly to NHQ/IT so that we can enhance eServices and have it truly be a "one-stop shop", instead of having to go to eServices for personnel stuff like promotions, transfers, organizational contact updates, and the like then go to WMU for ROA, transportation, ES info updates.  Only reason why I'm not mentioning CEMS is that apparently communications stuff is going to be built into the update to CATS which apparently is being unveiled at the pre-conference training at NB (guessed by looking at the description of the class so don't quote me).

[sparks]

WMU is supposed to be going away at the end of this year. I don't know exactly when. That will remove an option I like to use. Updating ES quals is easier in WMU and looking up CAP members is too. I haven't used the IMU (mission manager) option so that's an unknown.

The comments about self certification assumes the verification step is missing, the commander and ES officers are asleep at the switch. Another problem will occur if the records are audited during an SUI. Quals without back up documentation will be noticed. Self certification shouldn't be possible unless you have the login and passwords of everyone in the chain of approval. That would be a huge violation of protocol.  Yeah, I know, pencil whipping is still happening somewhere.

[Short Field]

I attempted some self-validation & approval this week in eServices.  Didn't work.  The checks are in place.   

[PANDER]

The WMU is not going away. Many people believe tha the WMU is a tool for ES qualifications. Although this was true 8 years ago, nothing can be further from the truth today. The WMU should not be used to input ES qualifications (although it still can do this). Most users of the WMU use it to manage flight activities, scheduling, and maintenance. It eliminates the need to even know about WMIRS (of course if you love WMIRS, you probably should not use the WMU since it hide it from you). The WMU manages the safety meeting requirements. It manages a wing's vehicle management. In fact, just about everything needed to run a wing is in the WMU.

The IMU is a mission management tool. It uses data from Ops Qual and e-services. The only tool in the WMU that is absolutely necessary is the WMU tool to create the IMU database.

[RiverAux]

I echo the earlier comment that it is insane for us to have several optional systems rather than putting our efforts into making the required system work easily and correctly.

[Short Field]

The WMU is also used to identify your availability for specific time frames - as in a SAR or SAREX.  The IMU pulls the data from the WMU to show who is available for the mission.  Sucessful use of this fuction does require training of the Mission Base staff as well as training all the members how to input their information.

[desertengineer1]

We use it to record our safety briefings - among other things.  Thought this was still the required procedure?

[IceNine]

^ it may very well be in your wing.

The WMU has features that are unavailable in e-services but are VERY valuable to running units from squadron all the way up to wing.

My wing manages ROA's, generates SET lists, and produces CAP DL's using the WMU.

Let alone the added bonus features of the reports that it generates, and forms that can be produced using this system.

Is is a perfect system, no.  Is it a useful tool, Absolutely.  Do I think that NHQ should create a system with this much functionality YOU BET.

But they won't, can't, or whatever... So until NHQ creates a system with the WMU's capabilities I will continue to use it with the value that it provides.

[Larry Mangum]

If you really want to know all about the WMU or IMU, your best source is PANDER, who wrote both of them.

[Eclipse]

If you really want to know all about the WMU or IMU, your best source is PANDER, who wrote both of them.

Yes, and he's been very vocal and public about the fact that he is not excited about the way NHQ has treated him and on several occasions has threatened to "turn it off", which is why, "better" or not, we all need to move off of it sooner than later.

[KyCAP]

I guess since he just posted in this thread that you all didn't read that he just said it ISN'T going away.  In my conversations with him NHQ has changed the relationship under the new regime, to the POSITIVE.

[Eclipse]

I guess since he just posted in this thread that you all didn't read that he just said it ISN'T going away.  In my conversations with him NHQ has changed the relationship under the new regime, to the POSITIVE.

Actually, I read the above, and Lt. Col. Anderson clearly indicates that the one thing most states are still using it for, ES Qualification Management, is the one thing he no longer suggests they use it for.

[KyCAP]

Since we can't release the CI inspection reports here I would suggest you get a copy of the July 2008 and review all of the Commendables they received from the inspection team because of their use of the WMU.

[IceNine]

^who is "they"

[Eclipse]

Since we can't release the CI inspection reports here I would suggest you get a copy of the July 2008 and review all of the Commendables they received from the inspection team because of their use of the WMU.

The CI team should be more aware of what is actually authorized for use by Wings.  I've had plenty of experience with inspectors who offer commendation for things which are actually minimum requirements, break regulations, or simple common sense.

At a minimum, continued use of the WMU by a Wing for ES quals should be a negative observation, if not an outright finding requiring remediation.

A) All wings were ordered off the WMU by the Nat CC at least 5 years ago.

B) It is broken in a number of places that Lt. Col. Anderson has indicated he will not fix.

C) Having two, separate, "authoritative" databases is a poor way to run any organization with as many moving pieces as CAP.

And no, I'm not insinuating eServices is necessarily any "better", but is is the "Way" with a capital "W".

[KyCAP]

Before you salt the food, you should taste it.   You passed judgement on the content of the CI reports without even knowing what was stated in them or how the WMU was implemented.

The WMU is no longer intended to be the "source" for the data it is fully capable of synchronizing data "from" e-services every morning at 6AM.  The WMU is filling in the GAPS that e-services currently does not support.

From what we are seeing, wings that are successfully using the WMU are not using it as the storage piece of their systems where they overlap with e-services (MIMS or CAPWATCH).   

Data is entered into e-services then consumed by the WMU for validating information and managing it (specifically - not the source of ES quals per the post from Pete earlier).

[Eclipse]

Data is entered into e-services then consumed by the WMU for validating information and managing it (specifically - not the source of ES quals per the post from Pete earlier).

Which would be great if that were the case, except that is not how all wings are using it.

If this were a SIMS situation, where the data can only be changed or updated at the National level and the "client" is simply viewing or manipulating read-only data, that would be one thing, however that is not how it is being used by all states, and the fact that data can currently be entered in two directions, by members with different levels of approval and authority depending on where the data is entered, that is a problem.

[KyCAP]

I have not had that discussion with Pete. 

Ky did not use it at all before this week.   We're in the process of training up on the IMU which is a completely different application from the WMU that is completely focused on the Incident Management from ICS perspective.   For what we do day to day this is as good as it gets until some $$ from USAF comes our way for an alternative.

We are not using WMU for entering any data that CAN be entered into e-services which is the current intent that Pete is modifying the application to work toward in my experience in working with him this month.   

Fields that were once "duplicated" in e-services and the WMU are being removed and replaced with fields that contain "synchronzied" data from e-services.   In fact just last night he flipped the switch where all of the WMU data for KY is pulled from e-services for duty assignments and I don' t know what all else.

I would say that pragmatically if there are folks reading this who are in wings that aren't synching the data from e-services then get with the program and make the switch.



I have a power point that I saw at National Board in Orlando that I am trying to post to this thread to show folks what IMU is, but I can't get the file compressed to lower than 1600K and CAPTALK only allows 1200K uploads.. 

[KyCAP]

Online training is now being scheduled for the IMU.

http://pandersys.com/