Going for that ATP rating?

[Varga Guy]

You just might want to get that written test done sooner than later...

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/ATP-Written-Prerequisites-About-to-Change-Drastically222272-1.html

[Flying Pig]

That ATP is just completely ridiculous now.  So here I am.. a dual rated CFI with 3200hrs TT... but I need to go back to a flight school and drop $20K for what amounts to an instrument check ride.    I swear the FAA hates pilots.

[PHall]

That ATP is just completely ridiculous now.  So here I am.. a dual rated CFI with 3200hrs TT... but I need to go back to a flight school and drop $20K for what amounts to an instrument check ride.    I swear the FAA hates pilots.

No, just the ones who hold an ATP who don't know what to do if they enter actual icing conditions and kill 50 people.  (Colgan Air)

So you get the kneejerk reaction of making the test harder.

[Airbus Pilot]

No, you don't need to drop 20K.  As long as you complete your ATP written by the end of this month, you have the 24 months to complete the ATP as it has been in the past.  Once August 1st rolls around, if you don't have the written done, you must go through the training / school as now outlined before you can even take the written. 

See 61.155 (d).

Get the written done then you can hammer out the ATP within the next two years easily.  Just get the written done now or you're screwed!

[bosshawk]

FAA motto: We're not happy until you're not happy.

[Flying Pig]

No, you don't need to drop 20K.  As long as you complete your ATP written by the end of this month, you have the 24 months to complete the ATP as it has been in the past.  Once August 1st rolls around, if you don't have the written done, you must go through the training / school as now outlined before you can even take the written. 

See 61.155 (d).

Get the written done then you can hammer out the ATP within the next two years easily.  Just get the written done now or you're screwed!

Yes, we know that.  But after this month, it's going to cost you a serious load of cash to get your ATP

[Cliff_Chambliss]

This idiotacy is time limited in a sense.  Increasing the requirements for the ATP is going to really choke the flow of new younger pilot applicants not only to the airlines but to many corporate positiions that insurance carriers require an ATP.  I predict this is also going to have a negative impact on the military in the intermediate future as well.  As empty seats start showing up on flight decks I am guessing the first result will be rapidily increasing pay scales to keep the folks they already have.  Next I would expect the carriers are going to again actively recruit qualified military aviators (possibly leading the military to offer even more bonuses to keep them).  Somewhere say maybe 5-10 years down the road I feel this will be revisited and a swing back to semi-reasonable requirements enacted. 
  Something else I have noticed is an increasing interest in older aviators. 

[blackrain]

That ATP is just completely ridiculous now.  So here I am.. a dual rated CFI with 3200hrs TT... but I need to go back to a flight school and drop $20K for what amounts to an instrument check ride.    I swear the FAA hates pilots.

No, just the ones who hold an ATP who don't know what to do if they enter actual icing conditions and kill 50 people.  (Colgan Air)

So you get the kneejerk reaction of making the test harder.

Agree it was kneejerk reaction...FAA and politicians all want to say they did "something" effective or not is irrelevant. As for Colgan my personal opinion is fatigue was the biggest factor. I've seen very fatigued people do some crazy things. Like reducing the power and leaving the autopilot to try and maintain altitude and missing the decaying airspeed.  Without being able to ask the crew what they were thinking at that moment some assumptions have to be made. For instance did the pilot think he had a normal aerodynamic stall or an icing induced tailplane stall or something else entirely. I admit I can see him missing what the stick shaker was indicating if he'd never been trained on that.  We'll probably never know. Ultimately the company and everyone still alive clouded the issue by trying to deflect blame to someone else.  Will the new ATP standards address this....I personally have my doubts.....

[scooter]

Varga, get the book on the exam and take it this month! It is not that hard. Do it!

[scooter]

Sent the previous to the wrong guy. Flying Pig, see previous to Varga!

[Flying Pig]

Im not seeing any changes in the requirements for a helicopter ATP?  I could care less about a FW ATP.  If I end up flying FW for a career then I have utterly failed as a human being 

But seriously..."Along with the classroom instruction you'll have to buy at least six hours in a Level C (full motion) sim that represents a multi-engine turbine airplane with a max takeoff weight of at least 40,000 pounds."    You have to be joking.   I don't even know where I would find one of those things.

And when interviewed about where these students will get this training or who will fund it, the FAA comments, "we anticipate that students will fund the training along with their other ratings."   Oh yeah sure......  Whats another $30K when you've already dropped $75K

[PHall]

Im not seeing any changes in the requirements for a helicopter ATP?  I could care less about a FW ATP.  If I end up flying FW for a career then I have utterly failed as a human being 

But seriously..."Along with the classroom instruction you'll have to buy at least six hours in a Level C (full motion) sim that represents a multi-engine turbine airplane with a max takeoff weight of at least 40,000 pounds."    You have to be joking.   I don't even know where I would find one of those things.

And when interviewed about where these students will get this training or who will fund it, the FAA comments, "we anticipate that students will fund the training along with their other ratings."   Oh yeah sure......  Whats another $30K when you've already dropped $75K

Flight Safety International has them. I think Emery-Riddle down there in Florida may have them too.
Now, will they give you a LEO "discount"?

[JeffDG]

The funny thing was, the ATP exam is the only one (at least this month) that you don't need an instructor endorsement to take.

[Flying Pig]

Fortunately it doesn't look like any of these changes affect the helicopter ATP.   So Im not sweating it.   Id like to get the written done this month just to have it but probably isn't gonna happen.

[dbaran]

 I got 1.0 in a level D sim (737-800)  when I went to the ATOP program to get my high altitude endorsement.  The guy who runs it is great.  It was just under $500 for the level D; the high altitude endorsement was another $125.  b737.com if you haven't heard of the program before.

They leverage airline sims in the middle of the night to do it.

[Spaceman3750]

Fortunately it doesn't look like any of these changes affect the helicopter ATP.   So Im not sweating it.   Id like to get the written done this month just to have it but probably isn't gonna happen.

Out of curiosity, what does an ATP for helo get you that commercial doesn't? I'm not a pilot so I'm not that familiar with the higher level requirements and privileges.

[Flying Pig]

A lot of higher end helicopter jobs "prefer" it. Most EMS companies would probably chose an ATP over an applicant that doesn't have one even deferring to a lower time pilot as long as they met the minimums.  In the Gulf, "Heavy" IFR captains are required to have their ATP to fly the S92, AW139, S76, Super Pumas.  If say most helicopter jobs that require 2 pilot crews the captain will need to have an ATP. 

[Spaceman3750]

A lot of higher end helicopter jobs "prefer" it. Most EMS companies would probably chose an ATP over an applicant that doesn't have one even deferring to a lower time pilot as long as they met the minimums.  In the Gulf, "Heavy" IFR captains are required to have their ATP to fly the S92, AW139, S76, Super Pumas.  If say most helicopter jobs that require 2 pilot crews the captain will need to have an ATP.

Cool, thanks for the info!

[a2capt]

Kinda surprised AOPA isn't up in arms about the possible $20K addition. You can be sure the training industry isn't going to complain with a mandate that gives them more customers.

[PHall]

Kinda surprised AOPA isn't up in arms about the possible $20K addition. You can be sure the training industry isn't going to complain with a mandate that gives them more customers.

Pilots with ATP's are not their target audience. Pilots who are an ASEL with maybe an Instrument ticket are their target.
That's like 70% or so of the pilot audience.