AFIADL Results

[Tubacap]

A question to the older and wiser crew.  How long does it usually take to get results back from AU for the AFIADL 13 exam?

[afgeo4]

Mine took about 3 weeks.

[IceNine]

It is usually relatively fast for a gov't operation.  Mine came in just under 2 weeks, but I've seen them take upwards of a month and a half.

I'd say if you don't have anything back within 2 months at the absolute latest to start asking questions.

Now, the data being input into E-services is a whole different story.  the way I understand it CAP only gets a data report from AETC once a month.  So if you need CAPSOC posted sooner (i.e. for Capt) you will need to scan and email the certificate to NHQ.

Best of luck

[Tubacap]

Thanks!

[W3ZR]

It may take a while, I scratched your name
off and wrote mine in before Roy left that night.

[Tubacap]

GRRRR!!!  Five attempts at taking the exam would not be fun!

(Please note, I have only actually physically seen the exam once, I've scheduled it four times, but it has mysteriously disappeared into the great paperwork hole of the universe.)

[Pylon]

(Please note, I have only actually physically seen the exam once, I've scheduled it four times, but it has mysteriously disappeared into the great paperwork hole of the universe.)

Oh, the great paperwork blackhole?  Yeah, we've got one of those, too.  Obnioxus, isn't it?

[Tubacap]

Makes me want to thrash.

[SDF_Specialist]

(Please note, I have only actually physically seen the exam once, I've scheduled it four times, but it has mysteriously disappeared into the great paperwork hole of the universe.)

Oh, the great paperwork blackhole?  Yeah, we've got one of those, too.  Obnioxus, isn't it?

Isn't that typically known as Wing HQ?

[Tubacap]

So, I emailed my TCO on the date he asked me to email him.  He emailed AFIADL, and they got back to me within a day.  I PASSED!!! WOOHOO!  Only two years into the road, but the good news is, is that I passed!

Sweet...  Now to get it all submitted into National!

[Psicorp]

Congrats!  Now on to the next course. 

[Tubacap]

^Actually, has anyone taken the SOS course since the new testing came out?  I'm not entirely thrilled about getting down to FTIG (2.5 hour drive) for each of the exams.  Do National Guard Readiness Centers have access to online testing?

[arajca]

You'd have to check with the center. You can take test at the unit IF you can get your state director to approve the appropriate personnel. If you have a CAPRAP, it should be easy...

[W3ZR]

Congrats Will,

I just got my 13 in the mail today, so lets hope the
criminals go easy on me for a couple of weeks so I
can study !

[Tubacap]

^criminals or cadets?

[W3ZR]

^criminals or cadets?

What the difference ?    Nah I mean in employment land.

Thanks for the use of your Cadet this week, I put her to work !   

[Tubacap]

no problem

[SAR-EMT1]

As a warmup for SOS I would suggest everyone enroll in the AFRes Officer Prep Course. Some of it may seem familiar to the CAPSOC, and its a good introduction to the On-base testing setup.

[Tubacap]

^have you taken it?  What is the curriculum like?  Is it applicable?  What are the advantages to taking it over just going straight to SOS?

Sorry, I really enjoy the PD program now that I am, well advancing in it.

[SAR-EMT1]

Ive taken it. The best I can describe it is that it is the USAF version of CAPSOC. They have sections on history, military law, leadership etc...

It is longer then the CAPSOC but as I say the material is similar so that the learning curve heading towards SOS is more of a gentle curve then a sharp rise. You will take the test at an AFB Ed Center.

If you want an intermediate step between CAPSOC and SOS take the course.

[Short Field]

As a warmup for SOS I would suggest everyone enroll in the AFRes Officer Prep Course.

Isn't that a lot like practice bleeding???   

[afgeo4]

Can we as CAP officers register for the AF Res Officer Prep Course? How do we do that? What's the course number?

I'd love to take the SOS one day, but right now I simply don't have the time to devote to such a major course. This prep course might just be the ticket to keep my mind focused.

[SAR-EMT1]

Yes, we can register for it, Course number 00017. Order as per usual via the online card at Air University.

[Tubacap]

Well, I'm pleased to announce, that I  finally passed everything in Level 2 and my promotion posted today to Capt!

[JC004]

Well, I'm pleased to announce, that I  finally passed everything in Level 2 and my promotion posted today to Capt!

Will you be at ENC? 

[ßτε]

Well, I'm pleased to announce, that I  finally passed everything in Level 2 and my promotion posted today to Capt!

I suppose you can now change your signature to reflect this good news.

[IceNine]

 :clap:
Congrats, its all down hill from here... stupid eci13

[Tubacap]

Well, I'm pleased to announce, that I  finally passed everything in Level 2 and my promotion posted today to Capt!

Will you be at ENC? 

Yep.

[JC004]

Well, I'm pleased to announce, that I  finally passed everything in Level 2 and my promotion posted today to Capt!

Will you be at ENC? 

Yep.

Very well.  My revenge will come then.  See you there.

[SJFedor]

Colgan is just mad because everyone but him has promoted to Captain.

[mikeylikey]

Colgan is just mad because everyone but him has promoted to Captain.

Or he does much more work for CAP than every single Captain in PAWG.  He got screwed over by the PA Wing Staff, and they joke about it.  If I were him, I would shutdown the Wing Website.

Colgan how long you been a member......10 years?  And we meet people everyday who join and are immediate Captains and leave after a year.  Or get a "special" promotion to Captain for completing ROTC, but still have to wait 6 months to Commission in the AF because they failed college classes.   

I would be [censored]y about it.  But Colgan is a better person, I give him props for actually working with the idiots at Wing. 

[JC004]

Colgan is just mad because everyone but him has promoted to Captain.

Or he does much more work for CAP than every single Captain in PAWG.  He got screwed over by the PA Wing Staff, and they joke about it.  If I were him, I would shutdown the Wing Website.

Colgan how long you been a member......10 years?  And we meet people everyday who join and are immediate Captains and leave after a year.  Or get a "special" promotion to Captain for completing ROTC, but still have to wait 6 months to Commission in the AF because they failed college classes.   

I would be [censored]y about it.  But Colgan is a better person, I give him props for actually working with the idiots at Wing. 

9 years I have been a member.  Earhart...screwed out of the chance to get the Eaker and Spaatz because I constantly, constantly applied for the AFIADL 13 using what was the official procedure in PAWG at the time.  I was never able to get promoted to SFO (same issue) and never saw an AFIADL anything until last year, then it continued and a test went somewhere unknown.  Since this has been my experience since 2003/2004, I've talked to a lot of people at the squadron/group levels with the same issue.  It's a big thing here in PAWG.  And it's crap.

I bend over backwards for PAWG and I can't get a simple test that I could have passed years ago.  I don't appreciate it. 

I am on-call when they need a last-minute staff member for an activity, I put up with the ridiculous fighting between staff over the silliest things, and I work hard on what I am given.  In fact, last night, I stayed up all night because there were issues that needed to be fixed on the PAWG web site.  It bothers me not because of Captain bars, but because it seems like an appreciation/respect thing to fill your request for a test, provide updated staff lists for the web site, send me the wing publications to make them electronic for the members, etc.  And the publications and other stuff isn't for me, it's for my job at Wing, and it's for the 2,400 members.  Then, I get flak from the members because this stuff isn't available to them. 

[Stonewall]

Often times, in all walks of life, good guys come in last.  I've been in that boat before; in CAP and military alike.  I've learned to step up and not take "no" or the more popular "you can't do it that way" responses.

On topic, can CAP members go to active, guard or reserve base training offices and take their AFAIDL tests?  I wouldn't see why not.  You get your results back immediately, as soon as you click "see your results" on the computer.

I'm in the GA ANG and while on TDY at Lackland I took an AFIADL test.

Has someone looked into this?  It would save a lot of us a lot of time and hassle.  Call the base education office, schedule a time, take the test, get your grade, move out and draw fire.  It's that easy.

[Tubacap]

^not in PAWG.  I understand Colgan's issue, I was there.  I literally took me 3 years and two enrollments (one with an extension) and four requests for the exam before I actually saw it.  It is an issue that needs to be fixed, and I hear its getting worked on, but cannot confirm. 

AFIADL 13 is a paper only exam, so it has to be sent back for grading.  The other courses could be done at a base education office.

[mikeylikey]

^ But the paper test itself can be sent to an ED Office at a base or post.  It is the group leading PRO DEV in PAWG that are not allowing that to take place.  The State Director actually wanted CAP members to take the tests at Armories, Bases and Posts.  Leadership said no, because it allows them to control the flow.

AFIADL 13 is silly anyway.  Weren't we supposed to have an on line basic course by now??

Colgan.....the day you finally take your test, I am sure they will roll out the on line version, and we will see an influx of Captains. 

My biggest gripe..... let the member take it at the local unit.  We allow Cadets to take tests that are much more valuable to their futures at the SQD.  Why can't we do the same for 13??

 

[RiverAux]

AFIADL 13 is silly anyway.  Weren't we supposed to have an on line basic course by now??

Seeing as how they just asked for help to produce such a course in the last couple of months, I don't think they expected to have it ready by now...

[davidsinn]

My biggest gripe..... let the member take it at the local unit.  We allow Cadets to take tests that are much more valuable to their futures at the SQD.  Why can't we do the same for 13??
 

I thought that was SOP? My SD is forwarding it to my unit's TCO.

[Tubacap]

and many units do this, the problem is that it gets forwarded down through to the group level now.  But unless your group TCO knows it coming and kind of hang's around the wing mail, then a lot of times it gets missed.

[Eclipse]

If it gets "missed", its an internal procedural or records tracking issue, not a problem with the test or the system.

Its not like we're doing 100 of these a month. If the Group CC or TCO can't keep track of one occasional exam and get it passed to the unit TCO in a timely manner, that is a different issue.

[mikeylikey]

^ Oh absolutely.  IT is not AFIADL or an AF issue or even an issue at Maxwell.  It is an issue of local leadership (Wing, Group and staff) not doing the right thing. 

I don't understand why the test has to go through Wing Staff to begin with.  It should be sent directly to the member with instructions "to be opened by your SQD TCO".  Then you go to a meeting, say "hey I am taking my AFIADL 13 tonight, open the packet for me, and then take control of it once I have completed it". 

It is not a very difficult process, but adding three layers of hands in their, and the inconsistency of Wing Staff NEVER checking their mail at Wing HQ......ya.  Problem is totally on Cap's side, NOT AF side. 

[Eclipse]

If it goes to the member you have a potential test compromise situation - what's to prevent them from opening it and making a bunch of copies?

Direct the unit TCO would be ok, though.

[NC Hokie]

If it goes to the member you have a potential test compromise situation - what's to prevent them from opening it and making a bunch of copies?

Put the test in a sealed envelope that is only to be opened by an authorized TCO.  If it's open when the TCO gets it, the test is compromised and appropriate action is taken.

[arajca]

Another issue is AFIADL uses Test Control Facilities (TCF). That's the number that is required on all applications (usually a zip code plus some numbers). That's where the tests are sent. Since CAP does not do a large amount - in the grand scheme - of testing, especially at the unit level, it does not make sense for AFIADL (or whatever their name is today) to send tests elsewhere. The member is responsible for contacting the TCF to arrange to take the test. The TCF is responsible to maintain the security of the test. Even the appearance of a compromise can cause great problems.

Given that most units use the unit cc's mailing address (based on my experience), everytime a unit changes commanders, AFIADL would need to change its records and deactivate one TCF and activate a new one. This includes updating the TCF for each student in the old one. I don't know what procedures they have to follow to do this so it could be a couple of minutes or a couple of weeks. 

We can say it's easy to send the test to the student and for them to keep it sealed, but given the institutional issues, why should AFIADL great a new test procedure just for CAP? If it doesn't work, it's an issue with the TCF, not AFIADL. I have taken several courses and have never had a problem getting the tests in a  timely manner.

If you are near an AFB or other TCF and can use that facility, submit a change of TCF request to AFIADL. The base education office should be able to help with that.

[davidsinn]

Here in INWG the procedure goes like this AFIADL->State Director(which is also the TCF)->Unit TCO. Wing never sees it.

[Short Field]

I bend over backwards for PAWG and I can't get a simple test that I could have passed years ago.  I don't appreciate it. 

CAPs biggest problem is lazy and incompetent leaders who are more concerned with the bling and power that comes from holding a leadership position than actually doing their job and taking care of the members.  I guess as long as you don't set standards, you don't have to worry about meeting them. 

I saw two very enthusiastic and active members quit last month because their squadron commander failed to advance them on time.  I am talking two senior members who qualified for advanced promotion to Capt due to special skills and were doing some of the harder jobs in the squadron.   The squadron commander had not even bothered to promote them to 2nd Lt months ago when their regular duty performance promotions were due. 

Just lazy and incompetent leadership.   And people wonder why we have the turnover in membership that we have...

[sarflyer]

Short Field,

Please please please don't generalize on the type of leadership we have in the organization.  You probably didn't mean to come off that way but I took it that way.  We have some people in CAP that are lazy and incompetent.   

That is the nature of a volunteer organization.  Anyone can join so your going to get people who are like that. 

Was the commander wrong for what he did, yep.  I agree with you but I try to empower my members to stay on top of what they are owed.  When you have a limited amount of time and a limited amount of members to do the paperwork.  A suggestion might be to have members fill out their own paperwork and help the admin and commander get things done?  Just an idea and no reason they can't do it. 

JFK said: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."  The same applies to CAP.

We have now drifted a little.  Hopefully Moderator Mike won't slam the hatch shut!

[JC004]

I agree with your assessment in that we are digging a hole.  I think there are a lot of causes of the promotions and such not getting done, but the end result is a serious problem.  There may be causes like apathy, ignorance, burnout, lack of time, etc., etc., etc.  But the end result is that members get mad and go away.  

AFIADL has been a shining example of that in PAWG.  I do not want to say the cause, because I don't have all of the facts.  I have been especially careful not to place the blame on individuals because I don't know what is going on behind the scenes, and my assessment could be plain wrong.  

I can say that the setup isn't good in many of our departments.  Our members rely on these departments doing their jobs, and sometimes...they don't.  There are other departments with a single person at the helm, and some of whom are very old.  I am fairly sure that those members live in museums when they are not at staff meetings.  Others may have served at Gettysburg.  That kind of setup hurts a lot of people.  It BADLY damages our retention rate.

I'm not saying that Wing can just appoint a series of assistants, because as I discovered, they can't.  This should be a goal, but the problem has been that many people have feelings about Wing HQ and refuse to do work for them.  This often comes from Wing screwing them over.  There's a cycle here.

I am fairly sure that my Wing CC doesn't care about my FIVE-YEAR AFIADL ordeal.  I'm not saying he is "lazy and incompetent," because again, I don't know that to be true.  But I am still fairly certain that he isn't interested in my issue.  The problem is that it isn't my issue.  It's several PAWG members who I can name, and it's probably dozens more.  So many of us will leave and we will have a talent gap.  I have been loyal and dedicated, but I have also made it clear that I am not going to continue to jump through hoops of fire for PAWG HQ if I am going to continue getting burned.  Enough is enough.

So now I feel like many members who have left.  I see things from their point of view now, and I understand where our talent is going.  Whatever the causes, it's not good and it has to stop before nobody is left except the people who don't care because they are here to pad their resumes.

My view is that there are two main kinds of people in CAP - the types who actually care about the mission, and the types who are here to pad their resumes.  If the people who care leave because they don't see any progress, then the people who are in it for themselves move up with less resistance, take positions of great responsibility, and the cycle continues.

My contention is that we have a great deal of talent available (for now) to fill the gaps.  There are great ideas out there among the average members.  By the time you get to Group and Wing levels (at least here), you see the ideas squashed and unused.  Talent goes unused.  I am a proponent of taking a member from the squadron level who is interested in doing a particular thing, and assigning them a project that will impact the membership.  That way, members stay involved, get retained, the organization improves, and potential future staff members are found.  In addition, you don't rob the local units of all talent and move it all to Wing, where it sits.  Yes, volunteers have limited time, but there are plenty of willing members who can share the load.  It is just that we need an effective way of involving them.

We need to focus on our people.  If we don't do it now, we will end up with staffs full of self-seeking individuals, driving out those who want to accomplish something.

But, what do I know?  I never took the AFIADL 13 and I'm just a 1st Lt.   

[Short Field]

It was not a generaliztion.  We have some great leaders and then we have some others.    The AFIADL issue and the members quiting were not due to great leaders.

Besides, it has been a bad week here with leadership issues....must be the high humidity (at least 25%).

However we much we gripe and moan and groan about a lots of things - most of them are small beans in the overall scheme of things.  As they say in the military, if the troops aren't griping something is really wrong.

The heart and soul of our organization is the membership.  Good leadership takes care of the memberships needs.   It values each individual's worth.  Good performance is recognized - and poor or mediocre performace has to be recognized as well.  To praise good performers and poor performers equally is an insult to the good performers.   To ignore your members needs is about the worse thing a leader can do.  If you have a problem getting something done - bring them into the problem to help solve it with you.  But don't ignore them and their problem. 

The case that really frosted my corn flakes would have taken a max of 10 minutes to solve.  For the lack of 10 minutes time, we lost two every talented people who are now poster childs for "why not to join CAP".   Ten Minutes over almost a year!!!

[mikeylikey]

I took ECI 13 as a Cadet (shows how old I am getting), and it took almost a whole year to get it to me then.  This is not a new problem.  This part of CAP will become much better when the new "Officer Basic Course" is finalized. 

The course should have been moved on-line a few years back anyway!  Honestly, I found the course to be (and I hate to say it) useless for a person who had already been in CAP for 5 years.  I skimmed it, and took the test, missed one question.  IT was that one everyone missed until 2001 when they corrected the text.

I think Wing Kings should be a waiver authority for members who have held a Wing or Group Staff position for over 2 years. 

Sorry to stray off topic.  What was this originally about?? 

[DogCollar]

I took the test on 7 August and got my results in the mail yesterday!!  I passed.  I did have to request the test twice before it reached my squadron, but otherwise, it was pretty smooth.  My one concern about the course is that there are major parts of it that are pretty out of date.

Even though requirements for chaplains advancing through the professional development levels is a bit different than other specialty tracks, I think it is important for chaplains to also go through the normal procedures for advancement.  I was given the rank of Captain when I was appointed as a chaplain, now I have appropriately "back-filled" the requirements for that rank.  I hope other chaplains are doing the same.

[Hawk200]

I used to think that the AFIADL 13 would be more appropriate for higher ranks. I don't believe that anymore.

I hadn't heard of this Officer Basic Course for CAP, but it sounds like a good idea. Locally taught or online, either way the information gets out there. As long as it's usefull legitimate info, it's good.

Another course for later ranks would probably not be a bad idea. Maybe a course to start with that channels into RSC. The RSC would cover a lot of the hands on and "workshop" kind of stuff that were shown as principle and theory in the correspondance course. Call it a "Part 1" (for correspondance), and "Part 2" (for the in residence).