Keeping New Senior Members

[Pace]

I am starting to see a trend with new senior members, and I am unsure what to do about it. I am hoping to get some sage advice from the seasoned commanders here.

Background:
1. My squadron is critically staffed on the SM side, and no one (including me) has much more time than we already devote to CAP.
2. To do more activities, we need more SMs due to time constraints.
3. To get more senior members, it seems we need to do more activities and more training (which takes additional time).
4. My newer SMs that have come and gone complain about insufficient local PD courses. (We're nowhere near a major population center.)
5. New members these days have a tremendous front-load of online courses that makes it unappealing to most.

What are you guys doing (with limited staff and time constraints) to keep new SMs?

Or is it just me that my new members have little interest in the amount of courses needed to participate?

[arajca]

A couple answers:

1. Unfortunately, not an uncommon situation.
2. See 1. Can your cadets plan an activity with limited senior oversight during the planning process? This is a good project for past cadet commanders.
3. See 1.
4. Have you asked group or wing HQ for help? Can you offer a place to hold the courses? I know in my wing, on occasion, wing has paid for hotel rooms for a few (3-4) instructors to go to the opposite side of the state to hold PD courses (SLS and CLC weekend, IIRC). The host unit had to arrange for space and students.
5. My R&R Officer, who is also my CDS, explains the rationale behind all the training. While our newer members are not happy with the amount, they understand the why behind it and actually work together to get it all knocked out quickly. I have two who have completed all of it and have stepped up to take staff assignments in the squadron, plus another who has just completed the last item and we're going to chat tonight. Then I have two more who are still chewing through the course work. I make it a point to be available to answer questions for them. Most are parents who really want the unit to excel, not merely succeed.

[dwb]

I agree that CAP has made it more difficult to onboard in recent years.

If you have Internet at your meeting location, you can do all of the introductory training at the meeting. You're not spending more time besides the meeting you're already at, and it's quicker to get people through things in person than it is online.

Once they complete Level I, those seniors can immediately jump in and start helping as assistants to your currently overworked senior staff. After they've started to get up to speed and have a little more invested in the program, you can try to steer them to an online SLS or TLC opportunity. If you don't live near a population center and in-person PD is not readily available, the online stuff is the best alternative.

If you (like many units) don't have Internet at the meeting location, then perhaps your new seniors would be willing to commit to one 4-5 hour PD blitz where you complete Level I and get everyone started in their respective specialty tracks.

[Garibaldi]

I am starting to see a trend with new senior members, and I am unsure what to do about it. I am hoping to get some sage advice from the seasoned commanders here.

Background:
1. My squadron is critically staffed on the SM side, and no one (including me) has much more time than we already devote to CAP.
2. To do more activities, we need more SMs due to time constraints.
3. To get more senior members, it seems we need to do more activities and more training (which takes additional time).
4. My newer SMs that have come and gone complain about insufficient local PD courses. (We're nowhere near a major population center.)
5. New members these days have a tremendous front-load of online courses that makes it unappealing to most.

What are you guys doing (with limited staff and time constraints) to keep new SMs?

Or is it just me that my new members have little interest in the amount of courses needed to participate?

Oddly enough, Spam, our GTL and I had a similar conversation on Saturday. We are all getting up there in years somewhat, and we're looking to recruit younger Officers to lead the teams. Since our unit is fairly small, it's not so easy to recruit new SMs outside the few parents that are interested in limited participation.

The larger units I've been in have had a real major cadet presence, and adults who come in to the program see that there is a real need for adults. Our span of control in smaller units is pretty manageable.

The biggest problem I've seen is what you said: time constraints and a heavy amount of on-line and in-person courses up front. SLS, CLC, TLC, and so on all require a full weekend, and who really wants to do that after a full week at work and honey-do lists and spouses who aren't that into what CAP does?

Another issue is that between 18 and 21, young adults who join can't really do much. They can't drive a COV, which limits some of the things they can do. FO grades are kind of useless, and after a year or so, I've seen new FOs that were former cadets just fade away. Haven't seen many new off-the-street FOs.

But, to answer your question, we have not been able to do much. Initial interest is tempered by the amount of busywork that needs to be done to progress after the first 6 months. Some of us soldier on through the BS, and some give up. We had a member go through the whole O-flight certification process and he gave up at the sheer amount of hoops that need to be jumped through.

It's getting harder and harder to retain, much less recruit.

[dwb]

"SLS, CLC, TLC, and so on" don't actually need to be done up front. Maybe we're making this more daunting than it needs to be.

Get people through Level I. Get them working in the squadron. Get them promoted to 2d Lt. Then, 6-12 months down the line, suggest SLS, or OBC. People need to be invested in the program before they'll do things on their own time.

The sentiment you express is valid, though. In recent years we've shifted a bunch of "things done at the weekly meeting" to "things done at home", which requires a higher threshold of commitment to the program that is clearly leaving people twisting in the wind. Pushing everything online has exacerbated this problem, as NHQ continues to overestimate the number of units that can regularly access the internet during their weekly meetings (IMO).

Getting from new member -> Form 5 checkride is even more daunting. That path is fraught with peril and as an organization we're pretty terrible at getting pilots and aircrew up to speed.

[NIN]

You have to engage people. Its difficult.   "I could let 2nd Lt Bagodonuts do the safety report, but it will take him a week and 12 emails to me. If I do it, it will take 15 minutes.."


Thats the easy way out. I've done it.

Give a man a fish vs. teach a man to fish.

The first time its a week and 12 emails. If you have the right guy in the right seat, the 2nd time is a day and 2 emails and the third time is an hour and no emails.

[Pace]

You have to engage people. Its difficult.   "I could let 2nd Lt Bagodonuts do the safety report, but it will take him a week and 12 emails to me. If I do it, it will take 15 minutes.."

Thats the easy way out. I've done it.

Give a man a fish vs. teach a man to fish.

The first time its a week and 12 emails. If you have the right guy in the right seat, the 2nd time is a day and 2 emails and the third time is an hour and no emails.

I've done that, and it seems just as they're doing their tasks independently, they quit.

[Eclipse]

I've done that, and it seems just as they're doing their tasks independently, they quit.

It's a brute-force effort until you get enough in-house and ramped-up to self-sustain.  That's why so many CCs throw up their hands and
give up.

I've taken to being straight with new seniors (of course now they will be called "actives"?, sounds like a term they'd use on 24) -
"...we're in a growth phase and I can't give you the undivided attention you need and deserve, so the first 6 months or so will be a little slow,
but we'll get you there and then you'll be able to help carry a corner."

So far that has been well-received.  Most people would prefer to hear the truth vs. a snow job.

[NIN]

Eclipse nailed it.

As a leader, when you delegate something, you also have to make sure that the tasks are understood, supervised and accomplished.

Its never "Here ya go, let me know if you have question."

Its more about having organized conversations with your officers as you give them more and more responsibilities.

So you get a new guy, you make him assistant safety officer, say.

So you work with your safety officer, who also has 2 other jobs in the unit, to effectively train the new guy (or gal.. not being sexist, just term of reference).

This helps train your Safety Officer as an officer in how to successfully delegate things (just cuz he's the safety officer doesn't make him an expert at offloading thing, training a new guy, etc). It shows your new guy you care about his progression to sit down and take the time.

Is it time consuming? Yes, it can be.

So say you have a half-dozen officers in your unit who each hold down 2-3 jobs apiece, you included.  You have 2-3 new officers who are either in a holding pattern or have engaged in 1-2 "assistant" duties.


So you sit down first with your two deputies (or one deputy) and say "OK, lets look at how we can spread the wealth? Where are our pain points?  Where do we need the most help right now?"


then you direct your resources there first, where you'll get the biggest bang for your buck.

But don't treat this as a one-off occurrance. This is an ongoing thing.  Part of your onboarding process.  "ID what someone is interested in doing during the initial interviews and such."

This prevents you from making an IT guy the unit IT officer when the last thing he wants to do on Tuesday nights is IT.

It shows you're paying attention.

Do it in an organized way. Make 30 minutes of each meeting a time where the commander sits down with the new staff officers and their supervisors and plots out next steps, looks for roadblocks, measures the progress so far, etc.  Doesn't have to be extensive, but it should be on a regular basis and involve not just the commander and the affected staff officer, but that staff officer's supervisor.

"Hey, new safety assistant, lets sit down with the sq SE.."

"How goes? How are you progressing in the safety training track?"
"Hey, current SE, how are you doing with offloading 30-50% of your workload over here?"
"Current SE will eventually be the deputy for seniors in the next 6-12 months, so we have an event horizon to get you up to speed so he can move up and you can move up."

There are a myriad of conversations to be hand, but they can't be all hit-and-run discussions, occurring in the hallway, etc. Formal sitdowns, even if not labled as such.

The new guy sees that the commander is engaged.
The SE sees that the commander & the deputy or XO knows he's up to his eyeballs.
The SE sees that the commander or the deputy or XO know that there will be progression
Both officers see that the command team is interested in making things work and helping them out, not just throwing them to the wolves.

"He're the 12lb blue binder. Catch."

[MacGruff]

We've run into the same situation in our squadron which was compounded by having a "generational" change of Senior Members.

(Generational Change because a whole batch of cadets grew out of the program and their parents - who were officers - stopped attending and doing their jobs...)

We've essentially adopted the suggestions given here. I am the Professional Development Officer and I sit down with the interested newcomer during every one of their three visits before signing up and go over the program with them and explain how CAP does things. I am upfront about the need for them to finish Level 1 before being assigned to a duty, and the requirement that as soon as they finish Level 1, they will be given a staff position which will then have the contributing to the squadron. I make no bones about the fact that it will take them between a year and two years to get the hang of it and use my example of 18 months as the backstory.

Once they signed up and got their CAPID, I sit down with them and go over e-services sign ups and show them where the Level 1 materials are. We also go over the Pamphlets and I suggest to them to read each of the ones that sound interesting as I am gearing them up for the "summary conversation". I identify myself to them as their mentor in the program.

Over the next few weeks I approach them to ask how they're doing and resolve any questions/concerns. Once they are done with Level 1, I schedule a discussion with the Squadron Commander which leads to a staff assignment. At that point, I re-emphasize the contents of the pamphlets. I am also the Group PDO and have developed a list of Master-rated folks in our group. When a new Senior Member chooses a Specialty Track, I refer to that list and arrange for mentorship between the new SM and the Master-rated SM. This is to help explain even better what are the duties of that staff position. Only after all of this, do I start discussing Level 2 requirements.

It's been taking between 10 weeks to 4 months to get senior members through this course of action and it does keep me busy, but I see that as part of my job and it's been getting the senior members prepared and engaged so they have something meaningful to look forward to at the weekly meetings, rather than just sitting in the corner.

[Spaceman3750]

(of course now they will be called "actives"?, sounds like a term they'd use on 24)

The main characters on Joss Whedon's "Dollhouse" were called "Actives". Here I thought that the brain wiping and reprogramming was reserved for wing-level and above personnel, but apparently they're rolling out the program for everyone .

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1135300/

[Eclipse]

"Fixing a squadron" for lack of a better term, is going to be a 6-month to 1-year plus situation, which should be communicated
to the membership when annual goals are discussed, etc.

Everyone needs to be engaged in the end goals to stay on that timeline, but if they accept that, things won't be as rocky and
the command staff will get some leeway.

For example, we realized last week, one of the reasons our senior NCOs are struggling, is because they had no one to model themselves
after, and no leaders to guide them.  The current cadre of officers came up before the stagnation, and even then mostly on their
own volition, and then there was at least 18 months of pretty much "nothing but the usual", so the examples aren't there.

Fixing that is on the adults, with sensitivity for the cadets if they aren't sure where to stand even though they are wearing 8 stripes.

Same goes for the seniors who want to be useful, but need to know the bigger plan - you can't have people standing up in the middle
of the meeting "deciding" "tonight is AE night".

[Spaceman3750]

The way that I look at it is this:

When you join as a senior, realistically there's about a one-year run-up to what the government would call "full performance". This run up includes things like Level I, OBC, a technician rating in your specialty, and if you're working in cadet programs, TLC. Hopefully Level 2 soon thereafter. Until then, in a perfect world you should have a pretty high level of supervision and mentorship, which can wane as you come closer to that one year mark.

This approach ties in with our core value of Excellence. By setting an expectation that "I don't need you to do all of this up front; however, this training is important to develop you as an officer and help you do your job better, and we expect you to complete it at some point in the first year", we show the prospective member that we are committed to their success, and helping them be an outstanding member of the unit, rather than someone who shows up and kind of does "stuff", and then not quite right.

It would probably help if you facilitated an SLS or TLC (or both) so that your members don't have to wait for the one-a-year opportunity to drive halfway across the state.

Not that I'm currently the boss; however, if I were this is the tack I would take.

[Eclipse]

It would probably help if you facilitated an SLS or TLC (or both)

This is sadly the only way to insure that your people hear a consistent message.

I heard a story this weekend regarding an all too "typical" TLC with an instructor who clearly hadn't looked at the material until
it was on the screen before him.

The participants essentially said "enough of this guy wasting our time by not being prepared, we're leaving".
Thankfully someone with a clue stepped in and saved the situation.

Someone who is experienced and informed about the current state of the program can usually jump into these
without too much issue, but if the last time you looked at a slide, it was actually a "slide", you shouldn't get yourself involved.

I live by the mantra - "I won't waste your time, don't waste mine."  PD is supposed to help make better, more effective members.
If you're only there to check the box for a ribbon or promotion, then you've cheapened that ribbon or promotion anyway.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I live by the mantra - "I won't waste your time, don't waste mine."  PD is supposed to help make better, more effective members.

Professional Development isn't.


Any industry with "professionals" has this "continuing education" bit.


Unfortunately for us, we've got a lot of Master rated folks in all trades of CAP, with 19XX as the completion date.


Just to look at my little corner of CAP - Cadet Programs - things changed drastically JUST in the time I was in college. Drill tests, new books, no procedures, online testing, new requirements, changes in concepts, etc, etc. I was a young senior, former Earhart cadet, and the learning curve for me was at least 6-12 months to get back "in" and know what's going on. But we have people who were cadets in the 70s and 80s coming in, either after a decades long break, or with little "current" knowledge, and being expected to perform based on past achievements under old rules. Not fair to our cadets, and certainly not fair to those seniors.


We need continuing education, refreshers, and heck, maybe even a CPAC - Cadet Programs Advisory Council - where local folks get together to talk, share, and bounce ideas off each other.

[Spaceman3750]

Any industry with "professionals" has this "continuing education" bit.

So you raise a really great point. In a world where you do stuff once and are done, how do CC's help their people stay sharp and continue to grow? This is just as important to retaining them as getting them trained in the first place. Engaging work is one prong, but since the national PD program isn't set up for it, how do we develop & administer continuing education locally?

I'd also like to add that to retain senior members - avoid making them a "moose" (as my CC calls it - they need antlers for all the hats). Don't bring your new SM's in and say "great! We have these 12 things for you to do." Let them do one or two things, become really good at them, mentor a new person in how to do them, then try something else. This is really hard to do when there's a lot to be done and 3 people to do it, but I truly believe it's a key to retain and dig yourself out of a hole. Let CP people be CP people, let admin people be admin people, let AE people let AE people, etc.

[Eclipse]

Professional Development isn't.

True enough - how many other organizations would allow a new member to be assigned at the state or region level
as a Director in a job they've never performed at before? 

CAP does it all the time.

CAP has no process for Technical training, it's all OJT, even if there's no qualified trainer.

The tech rating should be required before you get the job, not 2-years in because you want a silver bar.

[Eclipse]

I'd also like to add that to retain senior members - avoid making them a "moose" (as my CC calls it). Don't bring your new SM's in and say "great! We have these 12 things for you to do." Let them do one or two things, become really good at them, mentor a new person in how to do them, then try something else. This is really hard to do when there's a lot to be done and 3 people to do it, but I truly believe it's a key to retain and dig yourself out of a hole. Let CP people be CP people, let admin people be admin people, let AE people let AE people, etc.

When squadrons are operating at the level they are supposed to (see NIN's numbers for reference), new members have the time and breathing room
to become "members" and do a few fun things before having to take a staff job. At our current manning and staffing, that is simply not possible.

No staff job worth assigning should only have one person doing it - that takes time and people, something in increasingly short supply at the unit level.

I agree though, CC's have to stop seeing every person in the door as their "savior".

[Майор Хаткевич]

Any industry with "professionals" has this "continuing education" bit.

So you raise a really great point. In a world where you do stuff once and are done, how do CC's help their people stay sharp and continue to grow? This is just as important to retaining them as getting them trained in the first place. Engaging work is one prong, but since the national PD program isn't set up for it, how do we develop & administer continuing education locally?

I'd also like to add that to retain senior members - avoid making them a "moose" (as my CC calls it). Don't bring your new SM's in and say "great! We have these 12 things for you to do." Let them do one or two things, become really good at them, mentor a new person in how to do them, then try something else. This is really hard to do when there's a lot to be done and 3 people to do it, but I truly believe it's a key to retain and dig yourself out of a hole. Let CP people be CP people, let admin people be admin people, let AE people let AE people, etc.

One way is conferences. But they need to be held more often than every two years or so, and need to be more specialized, and need to come with the understanding that participation then needs to be almost mandatory to make it "worth it", as getting 5% of the membership to a conference doesn't get the job done.


Other ways? Here's a job for Groups. I don't know, at least in any easily available way who my counterpart CDCs are in my Group. I know some, based on interaction, but not all. I don't have their emails. I don't have their numbers, and we certainly don't talk on a regular basis. While we've made great strides in the last 10 years or so on making, at least locally the program to be more than just MY unit vs YOUR unit, there are still no easy channels of communication or "get together" events. Who better to help a new PD officer than 2-3 experienced PD officers? How about that new admin officer who has a tough time with all the minutiae of the job, and no one in the unit to help because the last four admin officers up and left when they hit the same wall? Sometimes group SMEs can help, but if we're talking about consistent support and "knowing the problem" nothing beats it like a peer group.

And that brings me up to another issue. I'm sure I'll need to drop a quarter into the Nin-fund, but we really need to change up how we do membership. We've already started at the national level with renaming categories - great! But we need to stop taking people in via trickle in. It doesn't work, it's unsustainable, and it's a drain on resources. Set 4 "open houses" on weekends during the year. Work out a CENTRAL training program, on weekends, staffed by the Group SMEs, and unit doers to train ALL the local new members as ONE group. Let them network, let them get to know each other, and let them go through the program together as a support group. It would completely change our culture within a 2 year period, and I believe it would also change our retention.

[NIN]

I agree though, CC's have to stop seeing every person in the door as their "savior".

How does it make the organization look?

Desperate