Military Service Credit from TMRS for CAP?

[RiverAux]

Or it could mean exactly what it says -- auxiliaries of the armed forces including CAP and CG Aux....

And by the way, State Defense Forces are not auxiliaries of the armed forces (meaning the feds).  They are state military forces only.  They would need to be very specifically mentioned -- and may be as Texas  does an awful lot for its SDF members. 

[Storm Chaser]

Yet the Reserves, which are federal, and the National Guard, which can be called to federal active duty, are not mentioned. Could "auxiliaries" be referring to these reserve components?

[flyboy53]

Or it could mean exactly what it says -- auxiliaries of the armed forces including CAP and CG Aux....

And by the way, State Defense Forces are not auxiliaries of the armed forces (meaning the feds).  They are state military forces only.  They would need to be very specifically mentioned -- and may be as Texas  does an awful lot for its SDF members.

Really, how do you propose that a CAP member's service be credited for a state retirement system? Have any active duty orders? Have something like a point summary that shows real periods of service?

I think not.

And by the way, while a state defense force or state guard or militia is not part of the National Guard, it is authorized by both state and federal law, is under the command of a state governor, and is partially regulated by the National Guard Bureau. That is why a state guardsman can be called to active duty under Title 32. People enlist into the state guard and are given characterized discharges upon departure. I actually even saw a general discharge awarded to a NY State Guardsman. Imagine if a 2B action resulted in something like that?

The Civil Air Patrol is a congressionally charted benevolent corporation first and Air Force Auxiliary second. Its members serve as non-paid volunteers and the corporate employees are paid by the corporation. There are no honorable discharges and no way to annotate a period of active service unless the organization was mobilized and operating in a capacity where the members were being paid by the federal government -- and you think the uniform issues are bad now, wait and see what happens then.

Certainly, the potential of this debate represents an interesting prospect and a means of legitimizing CAP service, but I'm certain that "auxiliary" in this context doesn't mean CAP.

I would wonder in the circumstances of Texas whether this might apply to service in the Texas Rangers or something akin to that. I would also wonder if this means things like the uniform corps of the U.S. Merchant Marine, the U.S. Public Health Service, or the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration.

[lordmonar]

It is not any of us here who are proposing anything.

It is the form on the TMRS web sight that seems to be implying that CAP service can be used as credit for TMRS.

Don't look for any logic to it....it's the government.

[Private Investigator]

Ok, I was approached by my boss about this a few weeks ago. My boss is familiar with CAP and he

... is 100% wrong. Look at http://www.tmrs.org/how_member_credit_military.php

It says "active duty" time only. Case closed 

[RiverAux]

Really, how do you propose that a CAP member's service be credited for a state retirement system?

I"m not.  Just analyzing the possibility.

1.  Many state governments have made the decision to give members of CAP (and to a lesser extent CG Aux) time off (sometimes paid) to do CAP and CG Aux activities. 

2.  Government pension systems often allow you to gain credit towards retirement for service done for another organization.  Sometimes you have to "buy" that credit, sometimes not.

So, is it out of the realm of possibility that some state may give service credit of some kind towards CAP or CG Aux?  Nope. 

But, as I said previously, it is most likely that they intended this to be used by WWII auxs like the WAACs. 

I'm not proposing it, just saying it isn't nuts. 

[RiverAux]

One of the relevant state laws says:

Sec.A853.501.AAMILITARY SERVICE BY MEMBER. (a) A member of
the retirement system is allowed credited service as provided in
this subchapter if at any time the person:
(1)AAleaves employment with a participating
municipality to perform and performs active duty service in the
armed forces or the armed forces reserves of the United States or
their auxiliaries, provided that:
(A)AAthe person makes application for
reemployment with the same municipality within 90 days after the
person is released from active duty or discharged from such
military service or from hospitalization continuing after
discharge for a period of not more than one year; and
(B)AAthe person is reemployed by the same
participating municipality; or
(2)AAis conscripted and leaves employment with a
participating municipality to perform and performs war-related
service during a state of war or during a conflict between the armed
forces of the United States and the armed forces of a foreign
country, provided that the person is reemployed by the same
17
municipality within 90 days after the end of such service.
(b)AACredit for service under this section may only be used
as set forth in Section 853.505.
Added by Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 462, Sec. 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1989.
Amended by Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 16, Sec. 11.01(d), eff. Aug.
26, 1991.

Also (partially);

Sec.A853.502.AAOTHER MILITARY SERVICE CREDIT. (a) The
governing body of a participating municipality by ordinance may
authorize eligible members in its employment to establish credit in
the retirement system for active military service performed as a
member of the armed forces or armed forces reserves of the United
States or their auxiliaries, for which service the members do not
receive credit under Section 853.501.

Now, I'm not going to try to parse all that (and the other legislation) to see exactly what it means and how it should be used, but it is very clear to me that this is a legitimate question and quite possibly could result in some benefit to CAP members. 

That being said, I'd be surprised if the system really had all the answers needed to apply it specifically to CAP and CG Aux. 

[RiverAux]

And by the way, while a state defense force or state guard or militia is not part of the National Guard, it is authorized by both state and federal law, is under the command of a state governor, and is partially regulated by the National Guard Bureau. That is why a state guardsman can be called to active duty under Title 32.

They can be called to duty by a Governor, but not by the feds. 

However, the below is wrong. 

In this instance, the term Auxiliary means one of two things: Either those 24 or so special groups of people that are entitled to veteran's benefits to include civilians serving or being held POW in a war zone or those things like the State Guard, State Militia or State Defense Force

SDFs are authorized by federal law, but they are in no way shape or form considered auxiliaries of federal forces. 

[Storm Chaser]

The problem is, what constitutes federal service when it comes to CAP. Participating on an AFAM may meet this criteria, but I doubt attending weekly meetings or working on CAP business from home would.

[LTCTerry]

Not trying to compare the Federal Employee Retirement System (FERS) with Texas...

I just started a new job with the federal government. During my 29 years of active duty and guard/reserve time I accumulated 14.4 years of active duty equivalent towards an eventual retirement. I properly received credit for the 10.5 years of Active Duty accumulated during those 29 calendar years.

One calendar year in the Reserves many only include two weeks of active duty. Maybe less; you can still have a "good year" with no active duty at all!

When "buying back" FERS retirement, it's the actual number of days of active duty that are counted, not the calendar years involved.

As an example, a Soldier who enlists for four years active duty then serves in the USAR for 16 more years will have accrued, doing the minimum required per year, an additional 32 weeks of active duty (16x2=32). Compare that to the 208 weeks of active duty served during a four-year enlistment (52x4=208). If this hypothetical Soldier transferred to the retired reserve one day and started federal service the next he/she would get credit for ~4.75 years, NOT 20.

Although active duty, drill, correspondence course, and membership points all count towards the eventual reserve retirement at age 60, only the actual days of active duty count to buy into federal retirement.

I would say - yes, just my opinion - if CAP has defined anything one has done as "active duty" then it's not, uh, active duty.

Guess guessing even further - even if teaching at a glider academy for a week counted, it would get you an extra week in state retirement, not the whole year you renewed for.

Just my $0.02.

Terry