dues dropped?

[Eclipse]

As for the proof of residence, I think it should be mentioned that JROTC doesn't care if a kid is here legally or not to enroll, so why would we, as a non-profit?  Seniors? Sure.

We should be checking everyone's status, period.

[Spaceman3750]

As for the proof of residence, I think it should be mentioned that JROTC doesn't care if a kid is here legally or not to enroll, so why would we, as a non-profit?  Seniors? Sure.

We should be checking everyone's status, period.

Why? Why do I care if Cadet Snuffy goes to Homer J. Simpson Middle School or that my new SM is an AARP member (or whatever else you want to check on him)? As long as their identity is verified who cares?

[RogueLeader]

They would be able to notify EMS // Hospital of blood-type if the cadet was incapacitated and unable to advise.

EMS is going to type the blood before giving it, they aren't going to assume that an application form or dogtags are correct.

I always use UNK to keep someone from getting lazy and getting it wrong...

You're obviously not AB Pos

I am.

Where I'm at, people think that Washington is still the president.
 

Wait, I thought that Adams wasn't going to be inaugurated until January 

That's March, at least as I recall, both of these were Pre-20th Amendment.

When did were there more than ten.

[JeffDG]

They would be able to notify EMS // Hospital of blood-type if the cadet was incapacitated and unable to advise.

EMS is going to type the blood before giving it, they aren't going to assume that an application form or dogtags are correct.

I always use UNK to keep someone from getting lazy and getting it wrong...

You're obviously not AB Pos

I am.

Then what do you care what kind of blood they give you...grab the first bag on the shelf and pump it in!

[davidsinn]

As for the proof of residence, I think it should be mentioned that JROTC doesn't care if a kid is here legally or not to enroll, so why would we, as a non-profit?  Seniors? Sure.

We should be checking everyone's status, period.

Why? Why do I care if Cadet Snuffy goes to Homer J. Simpson Middle School or that my new SM is an AARP member (or whatever else you want to check on him)? As long as their identity is verified who cares?

I think he was referring to their immigration status.

[RogueLeader]

They would be able to notify EMS // Hospital of blood-type if the cadet was incapacitated and unable to advise.

EMS is going to type the blood before giving it, they aren't going to assume that an application form or dogtags are correct.

I always use UNK to keep someone from getting lazy and getting it wrong...

You're obviously not AB Pos

I am.

Then what do you care what kind of blood they give you...grab the first bag on the shelf and pump it in!

I don't care. Some others do.

[Spaceman3750]

As for the proof of residence, I think it should be mentioned that JROTC doesn't care if a kid is here legally or not to enroll, so why would we, as a non-profit?  Seniors? Sure.

We should be checking everyone's status, period.

Why? Why do I care if Cadet Snuffy goes to Homer J. Simpson Middle School or that my new SM is an AARP member (or whatever else you want to check on him)? As long as their identity is verified who cares?

I think he was referring to their immigration status.

Oops. Guess I took it a bit out of context then.

[jimmydeanno]

What does our cadets' immigration status matter?  They aren't enlisting into the military (which non-citizens are allowed to do as well), accessing secret material, or "leaching off the system."  They'd be paying dues and advancing our missions.  JROTC doesn't care, Boy Scouts don't care, and we shouldn't.  These restrictions are ones that we are putting on ourselves. 

[davidsinn]

What does our cadets' immigration status matter?  They aren't enlisting into the military (which non-citizens are allowed to do as well), accessing secret material, or "leaching off the system."  They'd be paying dues and advancing our missions.  JROTC doesn't care, Boy Scouts don't care, and we shouldn't.  These restrictions are ones that we are putting on ourselves.

Because I don't care to perpetuate illegal activity.

[jimmydeanno]

Yeah, those darn kids.  They should pack their bags and get back to where they came from.  Geez, 12 year olds should know better and leave their families behind to live on the streets!  It's not perpetuating illegal activity.  Joining CAP isn't illegal.  We are a membership organization - people pay to be members.

[davidsinn]

Joining CAP isn't illegal.

No it's not. But being in the country without permission is. Allowing them to act like someone that is allowed to be here is perpetuating their illegal status.

[SARDOC]

I don't see how allowing them is perpetuating their "illegal" Status.  But the real issue is that immigration status may matter.  If you follow CAPR 39-2 and verify their Identity as the regulation requires especially using Attachment 2...Most Illegal immigrants may have difficulty obtaining the documentation.  If they can provide the required Documentation than you should allow them to be a member otherwise you might be in violation of the CAP Anti Discrimination policy.  Since none of us are Immigration Administrative Law Judges we should leave immigration status debates up to them.  Follow our Organizations policy and you'll be just fine.

[davidsinn]

I don't see how allowing them is perpetuating their "illegal" Status.  But the real issue is that immigration status may matter.  If you follow CAPR 39-2 and verify their Identity as the regulation requires especially using Attachment 2...Most Illegal immigrants may have difficulty obtaining the documentation.  If they can provide the required Documentation than you should allow them to be a member otherwise you might be in violation of the CAP Anti Discrimination policy.  Since none of us are Immigration Administrative Law Judges we should leave immigration status debates up to them.  Follow our Organizations policy and you'll be just fine.

If they produce valid ID then no problem. I was responding to the statement that we shouldn't even care at all.

[jimmydeanno]

Joining CAP isn't illegal.

No it's not. But being in the country without permission is. Allowing them to act like someone that is allowed to be here is perpetuating their illegal status.

Would you deny membership to a lawful US citizen that is 12 years old, but lives in a meth house?  They're just as liable for their "illegal activity" as the 12 year old immigrant's kid.  We really shouldn't care about a cadet's immigration status, there is no detriment at all to their being a member, other than people's personal position on immigration - all of which has nothing to do with a minor, who has no choice in where they live or who their parents are.

[Eclipse]

Joining CAP isn't illegal.

No it's not. But being in the country without permission is. Allowing them to act like someone that is allowed to be here is perpetuating their illegal status.

Would you deny membership to a lawful US citizen that is 12 years old, but lives in a meth house?  They're just as liable for their "illegal activity" as the 12 year old immigrant's kid.  We really shouldn't care about a cadet's immigration status, there is no detriment at all to their being a member, other than people's personal position on immigration - all of which has nothing to do with a minor, who has no choice in where they live or who their parents are.

Deny membership?  No.  Defer involvement in CAP until DCFS and the police cleared up the situation?  Yes.

Violating the law is generally grounds for dismissal, therefore we don't allow anyone to join if we are aware they are violating the law.  Period.

Anyone, cadet or senior, who is able to produce proper identification, is likely to be a legal resident on some level.
A commander has a fiduciary responsibility to verify documents presented are not counterfeit, if they are, or there is a suspicion, then we don't accept them until they are verified.  Period.

Knowingly accepting falsified documents is worse then presenting them, and everyone involved should be denied membership or terminated.

And yes, immigration status will be a potential negative factor in a cadet's career, and it is likely to rear it's ugly head at the worst possible time - whether that is being denied access to a military base, NCSA, military O-Ride, or any number of the times when a federal or other agency takes cadet information and verifies it's authenticity for security purposes. 

[davidsinn]

Joining CAP isn't illegal.

No it's not. But being in the country without permission is. Allowing them to act like someone that is allowed to be here is perpetuating their illegal status.

Would you deny membership to a lawful US citizen that is 12 years old, but lives in a meth house?  They're just as liable for their "illegal activity" as the 12 year old immigrant's kid.  We really shouldn't care about a cadet's immigration status, there is no detriment at all to their being a member, other than people's personal position on immigration - all of which has nothing to do with a minor, who has no choice in where they live or who their parents are.

You're missing the point. The 12 year old you speak of has done nothing illegal. The 12 year old illegal alien,  just by standing on American soil is breaking the law.

[PHall]

Joining CAP isn't illegal.

No it's not. But being in the country without permission is. Allowing them to act like someone that is allowed to be here is perpetuating their illegal status.

Would you deny membership to a lawful US citizen that is 12 years old, but lives in a meth house?  They're just as liable for their "illegal activity" as the 12 year old immigrant's kid.  We really shouldn't care about a cadet's immigration status, there is no detriment at all to their being a member, other than people's personal position on immigration - all of which has nothing to do with a minor, who has no choice in where they live or who their parents are.

You're missing the point. The 12 year old you speak of has done nothing illegal. The 12 year old illegal alien,  just by standing on American soil is breaking the law.

The 12 year old who was brought here when he was 18 months old. Yeah, like he had a say in that...

[SARDOC]

Violating the law is generally grounds for dismissal, therefore we don't allow anyone to join if we are aware they are violating the law.  Period.

I hate to be nitpicky and I'm not a lawyer.  If you terminated the membership of a Cadet and you did so because they were "violating" the law because of their immigration status, you would be incorrect.  Misconduct according to CAPR 35-3, by violating the law refers to things that would result in charges or convictions of felonies or misdemeanors or in the case of a minor charges that would have been felonies or misdemeanors if an adult was charged with the same charge.  Being an illegal immigrant is neither a Felony or Misdemeanor, It's a Civil violation.

Now If you were to dismiss a cadet for this under 35-3 i would use

(6) Loss of the status "admitted for permanent residence" by an alien member other than by acquiring citizenship to the U.S. 

[jimmydeanno]

Joining CAP isn't illegal.

No it's not. But being in the country without permission is. Allowing them to act like someone that is allowed to be here is perpetuating their illegal status.

Would you deny membership to a lawful US citizen that is 12 years old, but lives in a meth house?  They're just as liable for their "illegal activity" as the 12 year old immigrant's kid.  We really shouldn't care about a cadet's immigration status, there is no detriment at all to their being a member, other than people's personal position on immigration - all of which has nothing to do with a minor, who has no choice in where they live or who their parents are.

You're missing the point. The 12 year old you speak of has done nothing illegal. The 12 year old illegal alien,  just by standing on American soil is breaking the law.

On the contrary, he hasn't reported the crime occurring in his home, so that's misprison of a felony. 

Either way, CAP isn't INS and we have no need to be.  We are a private non-profit corporation.  We have volunteer membership, so our volunteers don't fall under the federal employment laws (we check the IDs of our actual paid employees).  Our "show me your papers" policy is self-inflicted and nobody can give any reason as to why we do it other than "because our regulations say so."  It seems circular to me.

If we want to base it off of precendent, JROTC doesn't check immigration status for enrollment.  Their cadets still hang out on Air Force Bases, fly in airplanes, get uniforms, go on field trips, attend encampment (SLS), and participate.  So, it can't be the Air Force imposing this rule on us.

There is no detriment to having a cadet who is not a citizen or doesn't have residency status.  Those minors are no more responsible for their status than the kid living in the meth house, both of whom are technically guilty of "crimes."  They can't help that their parents brought them to the US.  They can't help that their parents never applied for citizenship paperwork. 

When they turn 18, that's a different story. 

Before then, the worst that happens is we inspire some kid to love aviation and the United States.

[SARDOC]

You're missing the point. The 12 year old you speak of has done nothing illegal. The 12 year old illegal alien,  just by standing on American soil is breaking the law.

Things are not always that Black and White.  Especially, Where Immigration is concerned.  Immigration violations are violations of Civil code, not Criminal code.  There are some states that have implemented State Laws that have actually made it a Criminal Charge within state limits. Arizona and Alabama are examples of this.  Those laws are currently being challenged for their constitutionality.  Immigration issues can be very complicated that's why some "illegal" Immigrants are actually here legally while awaiting hearings which can sometimes take Years.  The Obama administration has actually sped up the process.  More immigrants have been deported under the Obama administration than at any point in history.